UKC Forums - Rule 7A needs looked at

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-- Rule 7A needs looked at (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928517124)

Posted by joey on 04-01-2019 07:28 AM:

Rule 7A needs looked at

7. TIME OUTS
Judge or majority of cast if hunting Judge is used,
may call time out in accordance with the following:
(a) When dogs are getting on highway, trail onto
posted land or trail into a place where there is
danger to dogs or hunters.

The other night in a hunt we had one dog that was getting close to a highway according to the handler who was also the guide. We were shinning a tree and he said we had to call timeout so he could go get his dog. I told him it wasn't a automatic time out, the majority of the cast had to agree to it. We called time and let him go get his dog.

It got me to thinking about the section of the rule on trespassing. What happens when a dog or dogs gets on posted ground and the guide tells the cast they are not allowed to go in there? Most would think you call time and do whats necessary to get the dogs, but what if the majority doesn't agree? Then what? You going to scratch someone who refuses to trespass to go get the dogs? You going to jeopardize the guides rights to hunt the place he brought you? I know what I would do but I also know you run a risk of a guide wanting to call time because he doesn't want that particular tree scored. All he has to do is say he isn't supposed to go in there. I don't know the answer. Or I'm I missing something?

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-01-2019 01:27 PM:

You have to call time out when dog first trails onto posted land. You can't wait until he trees and then call time out. The rule has been that way for 30 years. Why does it need to be changed now?

Posted by yadkintar on 04-01-2019 02:02 PM:

I agree with mike the way the dogs split up and cover way to much ground to fast now days you have to have a 1000 acres to hunt 2 hrs.

Tar

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 04-01-2019 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You have to call time out when dog first trails onto posted land. You can't wait until he trees and then call time out. The rule has been that way for 30 years. Why does it need to be changed now?

Wow I wish I had good enough ears to tell which side fence dogs are trailing/treed on at 1000 yards away. I even heard of dogs getting out hearing on a hunt one time.

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Posted by joey on 04-01-2019 09:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You have to call time out when dog first trails onto posted land. You can't wait until he trees and then call time out. The rule has been that way for 30 years. Why does it need to be changed now?

You might not know where he is till you get to the property line, and you do not "have" to call time unless a non hunting judge does it. Other wise it's a vote. That's the problem.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-02-2019 03:08 AM:

I would have a problem letting one person dictate when to call timeout (other than non-hunting judge) instead of a cast vote.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 04-02-2019 12:41 PM:

The rule doesn't need adjusting. The hunter's need adjusting. We hunt by HONOR RULES. Yes it takes a majority of the cast to call time out with a hunting judge, and yes it leaves a lot open for a dishonest handler to play with. If the vote is turned down, the handler who requests the time out has an option to withdraw and fetch up his hound. Everyone should think hard when they vote. How are they going to feel when its their hound that's in danger or out of bounds? Also one must remember that a withdrawn dog does not eliminate that handler from the voting cast and should they stay, their vote to see your coon could be the difference in winning and loosing for you. YES these HONOR RULES were written for folks who have some, and really just want the best dog to win that night. Most folks will do what is right for the situation, but there are those that won't. There's also those that haven't cracked open a rule book ever and have no clue. Of those who haven't, there are a very few who will still do what's right by reading the cover where it says HONOR RULES, letting their conscience guide them from there, and do what is the fair thing and the thing they would want done if it was their dog in the same pickle. WAY TO MANY TIMES we try to read into the rules something that just is not there, or use them for something they weren't intended to be used for. YEP, HONOR RULES are made for HONEST HANDLERS. Just like the laws of the land, follow them and it all works out fine, for the most part.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-02-2019 01:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
The rule doesn't need adjusting. The hunter's need adjusting. ......

Oh my goodness, how dare you suggest such a thing.

Posted by pamjohnson on 04-02-2019 02:08 PM:

Maybe one of these days the use of the collar will be put into play to help control are dogs.

Posted by joey on 04-02-2019 04:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
The rule doesn't need adjusting. The hunter's need adjusting. We hunt by HONOR RULES. Yes it takes a majority of the cast to call time out with a hunting judge, and yes it leaves a lot open for a dishonest handler to play with. If the vote is turned down, the handler who requests the time out has an option to withdraw and fetch up his hound. Everyone should think hard when they vote. How are they going to feel when its their hound that's in danger or out of bounds? Also one must remember that a withdrawn dog does not eliminate that handler from the voting cast and should they stay, their vote to see your coon could be the difference in winning and loosing for you. YES these HONOR RULES were written for folks who have some, and really just want the best dog to win that night. Most folks will do what is right for the situation, but there are those that won't. There's also those that haven't cracked open a rule book ever and have no clue. Of those who haven't, there are a very few who will still do what's right by reading the cover where it says HONOR RULES, letting their conscience guide them from there, and do what is the fair thing and the thing they would want done if it was their dog in the same pickle. WAY TO MANY TIMES we try to read into the rules something that just is not there, or use them for something they weren't intended to be used for. YEP, HONOR RULES are made for HONEST HANDLERS. Just like the laws of the land, follow them and it all works out fine, for the most part.

Robert I agree with everything you said, however if they make a guy to withdraw to go get his dog then he has left the cast and is no longer a voting member.

I'm never going to vote against a guy that needs to get his dog out of danger. What I was concerned about is the section on trespassing. Its two fold like was mentioned above your at the mercy of the guide to tell you where you are and if your allowed to go in there. The guide is at the mercy of the cast to not go somewhere he doesn't have permission to be and jeopardizes his hunting rights on the place. I don't know the answer or if there is even an answer. One of the things I wanted pointed out was most guys like my guide on that cast think its automatic to call timeout and its not.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 04-02-2019 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Maybe one of these days the use of the collar will be put into play to help control are dogs.

I never thought I would say it, but after using the collar to keep deer and fox hounds off highways and on permitted properties that can be hunted on, I would certainly vote to institute the use of the shock collar in those situations. It would be and is a great tool for such purposes. Could it ever work for us in a night hunt? I seriously doubt it because of those that have no honor will always figure out a way to cheat somehow, whether its for a trophy or $ 15,000.00. Think how nice it would be to know you could still be in control of your dogs while in a comp hunt. Those deep and lonely ones might not like it much, since they are made that way about 3/4 of the time through the use of a collar, but for those of us who don't want to be walking all night to find another's dog, it would be wonderful to have at our disposal. From the realist stand point in me, it will never happen, but it could be so much easier to hunt.

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