UKC Forums - How many people would like to see?

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-- How many people would like to see? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928452200)

Posted by Bryan Faircloth on 05-20-2016 12:16 PM:

How many people would like to see?

Who all would love to see Strike Points be 25. I mean all you would receive is 25 points for striking in at all, even first strike. That would cut out the babbling and make it a even field for a coon dog.

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Posted by Frank M on 05-20-2016 01:05 PM:

Post like this amuse me. If your being beat by a babbling dog.....it's simple get a better dog!!!!

Train your dog to hunt where you drop it not run for a mile before it starts hunting.

If you have a coondog you should have no trouble beating a babbling dog. I get the math part trust me I do. But if you have a dog that trees real live coons you should have no problem winning 90% of your cast.

Will a babbling dog win........yes. But if your continously loosing to a dog because it babbles and takes first strike then you have a bigger issue than strike points.

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Posted by Bryan Faircloth on 05-20-2016 02:04 PM:

I dont have a problem winning BC I know what is on the end of my leash. I just like for every dog to start out with the same strike and even ad in a count down on tree points.

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 05-20-2016 02:34 PM:

To answer your question (NOT ME)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by J I Allen on 05-20-2016 02:49 PM:

Enforce the babbling dog rule and it will take care of itself.

Posted by JiM on 05-20-2016 03:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by J I Allen
Enforce the babbling dog rule and it will take care of itself.

Why even say that? It is almost never enforced, every time it is, there is a major problem, and it will never be effectively enforced at any time in the future. So why even throw that out there?

Frank, this isn't about winning or beating the other dog. It is simply about fairly awarding points for something worthwhile. Awarding 100 points to the dog that barks first is about as worthless as it gets.

Bryan, 25 does not suffiently punish a dog for the various strike faults that we minus for. 50 strike across the board is better because it gives enough minus to punish the track faults such as quitting a track or covering late. I favor 50 strike across the board.

This is a popular discussion lately but I don't believe it has any chance at all of over being a rule in UKC so it's probably not anything more that something to talk about.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-20-2016 03:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
It is simply about fairly awarding points for something worthwhile.

Are you saying that opening on a track is not worthwhile? I guess that you think that we should all be hunting silent track dogs?
Oh my goodness, are we hunting coonhounds or just tree dogs? Why does everyone think that the dog that barks on a tree first is the only "coonhound". Now I don't like babblers either but to say that getting struck and opening on track is worthless is really something.
Coonhunters are always complaining about the dog that "me toos" or just backs another dog on a tree. But I have never heard anyone complain about a dog that "me toos"or just goes along and lets another dog work a track and then grabs their tree when they find it. I wonder why that is?
Have we gotten to the point where we don't value true "coonhounds" that can strike and work the first track that they come to and put a coon at the end of it. Do we only want "tree dogs" now that run through the woods until they come to a hot track? If you do away with strike points then people will only breed for tree dogs and then where will we be?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-20-2016 03:58 PM:

How many people would like to see a dog that just runs through the woods to get away from the other dogs and tree a hot easy coon get tree points only? They are real tree dogs so they should only get tree points. Some people pride themselves on their deep and lonely tree dogs so why should these dogs get any strike points? Aren't strike points supposed to be awarded for working a track. Why don't we call them track points instead of strike points? Babblers are just "striking", they aren't tracking. I agree they should not get points for "striking". Why can't we just award track points to the dog that works a track? "Tree dogs" should only get tree points. Instead of taking track points away from the "track dogs" that tree coons, we should be taking track points away from the "tree dogs" that don't work a track. Now how about that idea?

Posted by JiM on 05-20-2016 04:03 PM:

No Richard, I'm saying way too many first strikes are awarded for nothing but barking at nothing and we all know that's the truth. Now, if there ever became an effective way of awarding those 100 points for actually being the first dog to strike a coon track, then I'm all for that and there would be no reason to even think about changing the strike rule.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-20-2016 04:12 PM:

So a dog that is still peeing on a bush in front of you while the other is 500 yards and struck are given the same points.....

No thanks

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Posted by JiM on 05-20-2016 04:14 PM:

I agree Josh, no points for peeing on a bush.

Posted by rob thompson on 05-20-2016 04:20 PM:

What about #2

Posted by shane_atchison on 05-20-2016 04:23 PM:

Close 2nd and 3rd tree after 30 seconds and the strike will have no real relevance on the outcome of the hunt. It's sometimes hard to pick out a babbler but it's usually easy to find me to cover dogs.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-20-2016 04:29 PM:

Yes, we need to call them "track points" and come up with an effective way to award them to the dog/dogs that open on and work the first coon track that they come to. But I guess that is a lot easier said than done. Now does anyone have any ideas on how that can be accomplished? I know that there are some awfully smart and experienced coon hunters out there. Surely y'all can think of someway to accomplish this.
Dogs used to have 3 minutes to babble before they had to be struck. Then the rule was changed to 1 min on each turnout. Is this working out better or worse than the 3 min rule? Should there be no "grace period" at all? Or maybe only a 30 second "grace period"? Or can anyone come up with a better definition of "babbling" with some enforceable guidelines that are not so "gray"? Or should we quit giving the borderline babbler the benefit of the doubt and start erring on the side of the tight mouthed dogs? Maybe if only one dog is opening, that in itself would be evidence that no track is evident. Maybe we should get rid of the notion that a judge should have to "prove" that a dog was babbling. The "where no track is evident" definition does not seem to be working very well and leaves a lot of room for arguement. Maybe we just need a better definition of "babbling". Who has one?

Posted by yadkintar on 05-20-2016 04:34 PM:

25 strike is all I ever get anyways and I don't have no problem winning against those highly superior cold nosed track driving tree coons the other dogs can't smell wonder dogs lol !!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-20-2016 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Close 2nd and 3rd tree after 30 seconds and the strike will have no real relevance on the outcome of the hunt. It's sometimes hard to pick out a babbler but it's usually easy to find me to cover dogs.

In my humble opinion this doesn't work because a good me too tree dog will jump on the tree within 30 seconds. You are only penalizing the dog that does not really want to back but gets beat and tries to find their own tree but can't. And it won't have any effect on that deep and lonely dog. But this is being tried in the Super Slam format so I guess we will see if it makes any difference.

Posted by J I Allen on 05-20-2016 04:46 PM:

Jim, I threw it out there because it's the rule. The one minute is to give the dog a chance to get the excitement out of his system before the handler strikes the dog. The problem is the handler strikes the babbler before the minute is up getting an unfair advantage over the other dogs in the cast. Don't blame the handler of or the babbling dog if he strikes the dog and the judge doesn't have the guts to follow the rules. Instead of coming on hear and crying great big tears about some babbling dog beating you because he keeps getting undeserved strike points, enforce the babbling dog rule.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 05-20-2016 04:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
25 strike is all I ever get anyways and I don't have no problem winning against those highly superior cold nosed track driving tree coons the other dogs can't smell wonder dogs lol !!

Mr Yadkin, it is only us people that are getting beat that are complaining and want to see the rules changed. The ones that are winning have no problem with them.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-20-2016 04:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
In my humble opinion this doesn't work because a good me too tree dog will jump on the tree within 30 seconds. You are only penalizing the dog that does not really want to back but gets beat and tries to find their own tree but can't. And it won't have any effect on that deep and lonely dog. But this is being tried in the Super Slam format so I guess we will see if it makes any difference.

It makes a huge difference

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Posted by rob thompson on 05-20-2016 05:00 PM:

Not with a good me too type dog, not always 1 minute is a looooong time for a dog to cover.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-20-2016 05:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rob thompson
Not with a good me too type dog, not always 1 minute is a looooong time for a dog to cover.

Yes it's plenty of time. But it still makes a big difference

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Posted by yadkintar on 05-20-2016 05:13 PM:

Jmo in every game there is a strategy the loose mouth dog evolved to maximize a players chances of winning that was ok until they are more common than not so to combat that you get a dog that sneeks away from the pack gives just enough mouth to keep the time off and is a quick one bark pull pressure deadly accurate tree dog ok the loose mouth club first thing they are going to hollar is your silent to try to win by default but if they're high end extremely cold nosed wonder dog is there me tooing off of yours ain't a whole lot they can say but congratulations lol.but I do like the $$$$ rules they only got 3 minutes to get there.

Posted by DeerSlyer86 on 05-20-2016 05:18 PM:

I hate babbling dog and yes we all know those guys stole those kind of dog before the minute is up to get that 100. Why not do this if you strike your dog before the minute instead of putting the 8 on him change it to 4 mins. That will slow down those babbling dogs

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 05-20-2016 05:52 PM:

I disagree with any point system that awards the same amount of points for different efforts. Heck if we are going to do that may as well have all tree points be the same too. That way the only difference would be who took minus. The end of the hunt would be reduced to a coin flip.

Then everyone will complain about the double headed or weighted coins out there.

Fact of the matter is there are no rule changes that will magically fix everything. The flawed part of our hunt system are the handlers. There will always be complaints - that is human nature.

To bad we couldn't make the first drop be across a fresh plowed field. What a minute I have seen that not work either as the handler truly believed his dog was running a coon across that plowed field.

Too bad UKC's motto isn't more meaningful to everyone.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 05-20-2016 06:05 PM:

None of get minused here Jim. I doubt they do much anywhere. Despite what I read on here.

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