UKC Forums - Lay up dog yes or no?

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Posted by MPhipps on 06-13-2010 04:08 AM:

Lay up dog yes or no?

I have been coon hunting for sixteen years, and I have heard so many stories about hunters that say they have a lay up dog, with conflicting stories on what a lay up dog is. Can someone please describe to me WHAT a lay up dog is?

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Posted by gfults on 06-13-2010 04:19 AM:

A layup dog is a dog that has a canny ability to be able to accurately tree coons that are "laid up" in a tree that havent been down on the ground to lay a track. They wind these coons and its hard for a layup dog to be very accurate alot of times. Alot of guys have dogs that are either real tight or even silent on the ground and they just think they have a layup dog.

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Posted by MPhipps on 06-13-2010 04:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by gfults
A layup dog is a dog that has a canny ability to be able to accurately tree coons that are "laid up" in a tree that havent been down on the ground to lay a track. They wind these coons and its hard for a layup dog to be very accurate alot of times. Alot of guys have dogs that are either real tight or even silent on the ground and they just think they have a layup dog.

I feel the same way you do i think alot of dogs are more silent then there owners think they are.Thanks for your imput

Posted by Travis Brown on 06-13-2010 05:00 AM:

I have noticed that most good rig dogs are good layup dogs. The ability to work air scent and ground scent are different. A dog may be good at either or occasionally both.

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Posted by Glenn Wells on 06-13-2010 09:45 AM:

lay up dogs

Some folks say that they have a lay up dog when actually they have an intelligent dog that has learned that foodstuff wth scent on it might mean a coon is up a tree ... they check and if they don't find trail away, they tree ! A true lay up dog uses the wind to locate where the coon is , usually hunting into the breeze with head up ! For them to be most accurate the temprature needs to be dropping so that it's producing a downdraft effect . The best way to tell the difference between a tight mouth dog and a true lay up pro is to see how they are carrying their head , whether nose is down or high in the air !
It is a good idea to ask the breeder if a pup might have the trait to become a lay up type dog . As it might explain why you hear a dog raising caine in the dogbox driving down the road or why this pup fell on a tree blowing the top out and ol' Sue didn't !

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Posted by rabbitman85 on 06-13-2010 03:26 PM:

Ive seen some true layup dogs. One that ussually runs up in there strikes a track and runs it with all mouth trees and has a coon, the way hes suppose to. Next drop you dont hear nothin out of them and they just fall treed. Then you no its a layup. My young male will pop one way every once in a while. I wouldnt call him a lay up dog but he has tree one or two. I see him alot runin throught the woods with his nose straight up in the air bawlin. I honestly dont care much for it, I like to hear a good track bein ran myself. Old man down the road would trade every thing he owns for a good layup hound, but hes a stricktly meat hunter. Quess it all depends why you hunt if you like them or not.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 06-13-2010 04:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gfults
A layup dog is a dog that has a canny ability to be able to accurately tree coons that are "laid up" in a tree that havent been down on the ground to lay a track. They wind these coons and its hard for a layup dog to be very accurate alot of times. Alot of guys have dogs that are either real tight or even silent on the ground and they just think they have a layup dog.

I agree 100%. I have one that trees quite a few layups and more times than not he is on the wrong tree, normally a tree or two down wind from the coon. When I hear him setting up a layup in a competition hunt I just cringe, because I know there is a good possibility I'm about to take minus.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 06-13-2010 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rabbitman85
Ive seen some true layup dogs. One that ussually runs up in there strikes a track and runs it with all mouth trees and has a coon, the way hes suppose to. Next drop you dont hear nothin out of them and they just fall treed. Then you no its a layup.

This is the trap that most people fall into. Just because they don't bark on the ground does not mean it is a layup. It may just mean that the track was colder or it may mean they ran into the coon and it went straight up without running.

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Posted by rabbitman85 on 06-13-2010 05:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
This is the trap that most people fall into. Just because they don't bark on the ground does not mean it is a layup. It may just mean that the track was colder or it may mean they ran into the coon and it went straight up without running.

Yea i quess your right, Ive often thought the same thing about the runin into a coon that goes straight up.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 06-13-2010 05:16 PM:

Gamblers usually know as slick treeing idiots

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 06-13-2010 05:38 PM:

Really good lay-up dogs are few and far between. I have seen some stand up on their hind legs trying to tree the air scent. I have seen some tree sleeping coon that it was obvious they have been there for a long time. Yes, sometimes they will tree a couple of trees over, down wind from the coon.

Still trailers are not lay-up dogs. In the hunts, slick handlers try to cover up their dog's still trailing by calling the still trailed coon a lay-up.

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Posted by on 06-13-2010 06:42 PM:

A genuine "LAYUP" dog is deadly accurate,a slick treein idiot is just that,a slick treein idiot.

Workin the thermal's & scent cones get's a heads up kinda dog under the meat. The ones that miss when they are thought to be doin this are your basic slick treein idiot's that generally are gonna miss half the time anyway & their owner's are blind to what their dog really is doing.

Very few actual "LAYUP" dogs,but when you come acrossed one your gonna see the elete of it's breed & "COON" not just markin tree's for the logger's.

There "IS" a huge difference............

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 06-13-2010 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Two toes
A genuine "LAYUP" dog is deadly accurate,a slick treein idiot is just that,a slick treein idiot.

Workin the thermal's & scent cones get's a heads up kinda dog under the meat. The ones that miss when they are thought to be doin this are your basic slick treein idiot's that generally are gonna miss half the time anyway & their owner's are blind to what their dog really is doing.

Very few actual "LAYUP" dogs,but when you come acrossed one your gonna see the elete of it's breed & "COON" not just markin tree's for the logger's.

There "IS" a huge difference............

or a dog that cant run a track and runs threw the woods smelling
every tree.i know how he got up there.

Posted by Mike Lovekamp on 06-13-2010 07:54 PM:

Layups

Anyone who has hunted with a good layup dog can easily tell what they are doing . My Banger dog has always been very good at this and he is not silent on track . When he trees without opening its a layup. I've seen him do it from the tailgate and off the leash. He is always very acurate when he trees a layup. It is an extremely nice trait to have in a hound.
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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-13-2010 08:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Travis Brown
I have noticed that most good rig dogs are good layup dogs. The ability to work air scent and ground scent are different. A dog may be good at either or occasionally both.

I agree 100%we rig hunt alot and it makes dogs get there head in the air and use the wind it makes them faster track dogs to i think

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Posted by on 06-13-2010 09:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
or a dog that cant run a track and runs threw the woods smelling
every tree.i know how he got up there.

"SURE",if you say so ? No doubt there's p-lenty of them out there that can't run nothin but a hot track to a tree thus the need to go thru three section's to find a coon.

You description of said dog,although as breif as it may be, don't eat my feed.

"SOME" have no clue what a "LAYUP" is but that's fine.We all interpret things differently.

Kinda like some like breifs & other's prefer goin camando......................

Posted by Glenn Wells on 06-13-2010 10:09 PM:

I've run dogs that can tree layups , have noticed that they have real good noses, they could strike a cold trail but it would warm up fast ! They also seemed to hunt in a pattern, a circle or cloverleaf style movement , always using the breezes to their advantage . When they got the trail warmed, the head came up and they would run usually off to the side of the actual trail , not straddling it .
I have seen dogs tree and the coon be a couple trees over ... usually leads to dog being scolded , might not be the best thing to do . I've known pups that started treeing the smell, then learned to use other senses to get it dead on, by using their eyes to actually locate the coon . These would be your pro type lay up artists ! On these dogs that have learned to look , I have noticed that they tree on the side that the coon is on .
That is why that I said in an earlier post to ask the breeder if your pup might have the trait . There are a lot of dogs that have been called slick treeing fools, when they really had the coon, just haven't learned the fine details on showing it before the button is hit !

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Posted by Modawg1 on 06-14-2010 12:23 AM:

I agree with two toes and I've hunted with a few. One way to test a dog would be to take a cold nosed fully open dog that you know is a top trailer and hunt with the dog. If the lay-up dog drops treed and the good trailer says nothing, then I'd say a pretty good chance you got one.

Posted by Travis Brown on 06-14-2010 12:36 AM:

I've had one really good layup/rigdog and I don't know how many times I pulled her out of the box on the tailgate thinking I was going to send her down a hollow only to see her winding up in a different direction. As soon as I would try to send her down the hollow she would turn and go the direction she was winding. Sometimes she would strike a track and sometimes she would just fall treed. Now I've had some other dogs that could run a track as good as her or maybe a little bit better, but never had another that could work air scent like her. I've had her throw out a locate while riding in the dogbox in the back of the truck driving through national forests. I would cut her loose and sometimes she would strike or tree right close and sometimes she would go in there a hundred yards to it. That is not something I saw her do just once, but at least a hundred times. She was just as accurate with a layup as with a track. Never did have the couple trees down problem.

Posted by mattbsu on 06-14-2010 12:54 AM:

lay ups

i actually watched my dog tree a lay up once. it was almost dark and he had his nose in the air and i cut him... he ran around with his head up in the woods about 10 yards in.. made like a 50 yard circle and got it. didnt put his nose on the ground one time. but on the other hand.. i have seen people think its a lay up and not too.

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Posted by CARL GUDGEON on 06-14-2010 01:45 AM:

LAYUPS

And when you see dog's standing on there hind legs walking in circles smelling the air thats layup ability and it makes me smile.

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Posted by Velocity on 06-14-2010 02:02 AM:

Anything is possible. But i have scene my NTCH tree a few in fresh snow that other dogs did not know where there. She does not walk on water and is not 100% accurate but i usually find her under the coon and i think she is a descent layup dog. Some nights she is pretty tight on track and other nights she is wide open on trail. so the only way i have been able to say it was a layup was fresh snow or other dogs checking the tree and moving on.....

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Posted by psiskjr on 06-14-2010 02:24 AM:

I have never seen but one layup artist. He was a very cold nosed dog. He was trained hunting in the daytime only. His owner would ride the road after daylight looking for a track and put him on it. He was full open and could move a cold track very well. We road hunted him after he was three or four years old and he would be going down the road and just locate with his head up and fall treed on a tree usually close to the road. The other dogs would never even open. He was a truly rare hound.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 06-14-2010 03:36 AM:

Not so sure i would agree that a layup dog necesarilly is a coldnosed dog, I think it has more to do with brains and desire than nose.
The dog im hunting now trees some layups and uses her nose in the air alot. Most would say shes one of those hot nosed dogs that gets through alot of country looking for a hot easy one, But she has a knack for picking scent out of the air and letting her nose lead the way. I have seen her tree coon that i knew were up atleast a couple hours and just locate and fall treed and yet she never runs an old track. I think sometimes a dog finds a way to compensate for what they lack.

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Posted by tsizemore on 06-14-2010 03:43 AM:

true layup

if you ever get the once or twice in a lifetime to hunt with one you willlll be amazed they are a real dog out there that knows how to do it

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