UKC Forums - Let's Discuss Performance Program

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-- Let's Discuss Performance Program (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928506868)

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-25-2018 07:43 PM:

Not sending checks under $25 will put several thousand in the following years fund but not enough for anyone to notice or get interested. Its going to take many changes and considerable growth for the program to be relevant again.

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Posted by Phil Peterson on 07-25-2018 11:18 PM:

I don’t know what it costs UKC to issue a check for $25 or $50, but I have written them several checks under $50 over the years and they didn’t have a problem cashing them. With automation like we have today, how much does it really cost to hit a button to print a check and have someone stuff it in an envelope? Then pay 50 cents to mail it. With that said, I wouldn’t be opposed with direct deposit if that helps. But if I am spending money to get in a program then I want every penny that is owed me. I sure don’t tell the bank that I don’t want the interest on my money even if it doesn’t amount to much.

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 07-26-2018 12:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Phil Peterson
I don’t know what it costs UKC to issue a check for $25 or $50, but I have written them several checks under $50 over the years and they didn’t have a problem cashing them. With automation like we have today, how much does it really cost to hit a button to print a check and have someone stuff it in an envelope? Then pay 50 cents to mail it. With that said, I wouldn’t be opposed with direct deposit if that helps. But if I am spending money to get in a program then I want every penny that is owed me. I sure don’t tell the bank that I don’t want the interest on my money even if it doesn’t amount to much.

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I just gave that a 5 thumbs up!

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-26-2018 12:17 AM:

If they will make the overdue changes needed to bring performance points up, get hunters interested in competing again and in return helping the clubs and sport they can put any check I may recieve under $50 in next years fund.

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Shane

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-26-2018 12:41 AM:

The performance program is set up to pay ALL the money back for that year Minus 10%, Nothing is carried over. The 10% UKC keeps pays for the printing of the checks, it don’t matter if they print 1 or 10,000, All the money they pay back came From Us plus the 10% they keep, This program cost UKC Nothing.

Mr Tim.

Posted by joey on 07-26-2018 04:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Michael, what about posting a list of point earners on the interweb that is easily accessed and updated weekly? Don't you think that would increase participation?

I really don't think anything is going to increase it much. I think it is what it is.

Pam, I agree with not sending out those checks but it isn't going to significantly increase the payout. Only one thing will, a drastic increase in money going into the program. Not sending those checks will help but either there is going to have to be a massive increase in pups paid up or prices will have to be increased. It will be better to add a slight increase per pup per litter than to increase the stud fee. It will not be that bad per person but will be more money than increasing stud fees. In the end I really don't think anything is going to help.

I want to see something that will grow clubs and that isn't this program.

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Posted by JiM on 07-26-2018 04:45 AM:

Back when the average nite hunt was drawing 60 dogs, not one of them was in it for the money. And they didn't leave because of money. They left because they died and nobody took their place. None of this is about money but it sure makes for a ton of long winded discussion.

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Posted by joey on 07-26-2018 05:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Back when the average nite hunt was drawing 60 dogs, not one of them was in it for the money. And they didn't leave because of money. They left because they died and nobody took their place. None of this is about money but it sure makes for a ton of long winded discussion.

and nothing can be done about that, but there are a ton of people that stay home or go pleasure hunting with a club holding a hunt right down the road. We need to try and do something about that. When you are trying to fix a problem you work on the things that you have some sort of control over. That's all we can do, I don't think anyone thinks it will ever be like it was, but I think we can make it better than it is now.

Posted by yadkintar on 07-26-2018 09:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Back when the average nite hunt was drawing 60 dogs, not one of them was in it for the money. And they didn't leave because of money. They left because they died and nobody took their place. None of this is about money but it sure makes for a ton of long winded discussion.

And a whole bunch of them got tired of having to drive an hour and pay $20 to have to walk their guts out on the leash to ole mouthy , deep, mean, and alone.

Cover late get ate that's the young guns moto I will just stay home then !!

Old farts rule.

Tar

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-26-2018 02:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Back when the average nite hunt was drawing 60 dogs, not one of them was in it for the money. And they didn't leave because of money. They left because they died and nobody took their place. None of this is about money but it sure makes for a ton of long winded discussion.

Yep the baby boomers were the backbone of the sport. Make no mistake, with the younger generation its ALL about the money..

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Posted by JiM on 07-26-2018 02:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
and nothing can be done about that, but there are a ton of people that stay home or go pleasure hunting with a club holding a hunt right down the road. We need to try and do something about that. When you are trying to fix a problem you work on the things that you have some sort of control over. That's all we can do, I don't think anyone thinks it will ever be like it was, but I think we can make it better than it is now.

You are right about that Mike.

Posted by yadkinriver on 07-26-2018 02:35 PM:

Now I'm going to give my opinion on why attendance is down. I blame it on ole "deep and alone". Back when we turned four dogs loose and got a strike we had four dogs running a coon(hopefully). You found out who had the honest first strike dog and who didn't. You found out who had the best and fsstest track dog and who had the quickest tree dog. When we got to the tree and ole belly up was the only dog on the tree and the other dogs got brave enough to get back on the tree and ole belly up started putting them back off then we stuck the pencil to him and sent him home. Then we could turn them back loose or go to another spot. That way you could see who had the right kind of dog and maybe one worthy of breeding to and you could come in with a decent score and the leash lock rule would have seldom been necessary.
Kinda hard to compare ole deep and alone to the other dogs other than just deep and alone. It takes the real competition out of competition hunts.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-26-2018 03:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver

Kinda hard to compare ole deep and alone to the other dogs other than just deep and alone. It takes the real competition out of competition hunts.

And there you have it. Everyone wanted the quickest tree dog. Breeders bred them so quick that they started beating the coon to the tree. So they started breeding hounds that were independant and would split tree with the coon. But the accurate hounds had to check to make sure so they got beat by the super quick one bark me too dog that stole their trees. The only way to win then was to be so deep that the me too dogs couldn't get there in time. And that is how we have gotten to where we are now. Somehow we are going to have to rein in the too deep and alone dogs. Jim says that shortening hunt time will ruin our hounds but if we don't rein in the deep and alone hounds we are going to ruin our hunts. They are becoming an endurance marathon for handlers, judges and guides. Breeding for close and alone and accurate dogs is one way to do it. If you can't win with old too deep and alone he will disappear.

Posted by MR.RATMAN on 07-26-2018 03:25 PM:

Has anyone ever thought that with entries so low in the hunts, but yet people are still buying pups that the majority of coon hunters are now pleasure hunters ?? Until the hunt numbers go up it dont matter what you do to the performance program that won't help.. it all starts with getting youth involved, changing the rules,,, allowing pups to be eligible with out going to a performance stud because again people are breeding to what they like that aren't performance studs as well..

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Posted by jay brademeyer on 07-26-2018 04:05 PM:

Alan if it were me I would scrap it... It has failed from what it was intended to be.. chock it up and move on.. dead horse is dead.. UKC need to have state races.. hunt all dogs together.. opens and titled. Have state races.. if you want to do a sire awards program do something similar to super stakes or be done with it all together...I register pups every year and quit fooling with performance... Nobody cares about it, but they all want them superstaked. Just opinion

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-26-2018 04:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
Alan if it were me I would scrap it... It has failed from what it was intended to be.. chock it up and move on.. dead horse is dead.. UKC need to have state races.. hunt all dogs together.. opens and titled. Have state races.. if you want to do a sire awards program do something similar to super stakes or be done with it all together...I register pups every year and quit fooling with performance... Nobody cares about it, but they all want them superstaked. Just opinion

Some of us still like it! And you are worng, I can’t sale a pup that’s not Performance, I breed a lot of females an less than hafe don’t even have PKC papers much less pay there membership fees.

Mr Tim.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 07-26-2018 05:05 PM:

Your selling to a different base than I am then... But I only raise a couple two or three litters a year.. your probably right Tim.. I'm always wrong 😎.. I know you are concerned with respect.. thanks for yours

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-26-2018 05:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
Your selling to a different base than I am then... But I only raise a couple two or three litters a year.. your probably right Tim.. I'm always wrong 😎.. I know you are concerned with respect.. thanks for yours

Well iv tried to call you, you won’t return my call and your voice msg is always full so can’t leave a msg.

Mr Tim.

Posted by yadkinriver on 07-26-2018 05:56 PM:

Oh my goodness Richard. We did want a quick tree dog but in UKC we had to see eyes. We hunted our dog until it was independent enough to not honor the slick tree dog and finish the track for 125. They would split but off the same track and not out of jealousy. The cream rose to the top.

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-26-2018 05:58 PM:

I think it was posted last summer about 40% of pups were outta Performance sires and less than half of those pups were paid up. That says volumes about the interest in the program or the hunts for that matter.f

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Posted by MR.RATMAN on 07-26-2018 06:12 PM:

Dont forget about all the good rule changes that were made last time as well that was going to help bring numbers up.. I see all the hunt organisation being just like ACHA in 10 years

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Posted by jay brademeyer on 07-26-2018 06:12 PM:

Tim send me a text so I know which number is you and I will call u back when I get a minute.. thanks

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-26-2018 06:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
Tim send me a text so I know which number is you and I will call u back when I get a minute.. thanks

Id like to see $30 hides and $300 performance points again. Then we could see if money has anything to do with it..

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Shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-26-2018 06:37 PM:

I would like to be 40 yrs old again too.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-26-2018 06:41 PM:

Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
......UKC is working on several significant changes....

I wonder just what "working on" means? Is that Allenspeak?

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