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Sorry, can't stay away from this topic...it's a hot button for me.

I know that I've come off sounding like I'm attacking Dave, but that is not the case. However, with your permission I'd like to illustrate how damaging your point of view is to the local club level.

Dave you mentioned a "one man show" that was local to where you lived in Indiana. You and I know which club it is, and I'm not bashing them at all..... But it makes for one heck of an illustration.

Membership in that club fell off for one reason or another, it's funds were embezzled by a former treasurer, and it struggled to stay alive. One man stepped up and decided that he was going to fight to keep it alive. He did everything for that club...from being president to finding a new home, to scheduling the hunts.

They have a program where if you guide, your entry fee is covered, so they were able to draw enough guys who were willing to guide, in order to hunt for free...and they have an average entry of 8 to 12 dogs per event. Of those 25% paid no entry fee...and they were the first three or four guys to volunteer to guide, not necessarily club members, and not necessarily the best guides...but those that got to the clubhouse first on hunt night.

There is another club not far from this one. They too have struggled in the past with finances and club memberships. At some point they decided that the young folks among us are the key to continued success, and they have thrown themselves at youth events, and focused on family values. Not only do they have a good turn out for their sanctioned events, complete with club members standing by to make sure that they have ample guides and non-hunting judges should they need them, but they also have a thriving "club championship"....they have "club hunts" twice a month that are used as friendly competition, but also as learning opportunities for the youth hunters in their fold. A chance to compete, while learning the rules and building mentor relationships with the older members. They have club meetings once a month that are also carry in dinners.....they have built value in being a member for those that are interested in the the sport, in carrying on the sport through our youth, and their events are very successful having larger than average entries at their sanctioned events.

Dave, you have hunted a both of these clubs....and you have helped both of them by attending their hunts, judging, and guiding....and you helped with a YEP event at one of them....

At some point, the one man show will die. And when it dies, so goes the opportunity for you to attend those events. The other club that is focused, with a good membership base that has a focus other than simply hosting events will continue for years to come. They will have peaks and valleys...but when the teens that are involved now have kids....they will bring their kids to share in the family values expressed at that club.....

I am PROUD to be a member of the second club, and wish that I had more time to devote to the mission there...but I will continue to do what I can for them for as long as I am able.

The whole issue is this....most of us have been driven to donate to the Red Cross at one time or another, but few of us have volunteered our time to collect the donations. The concept is the same. If it were not for the few that volunteered to collect, there would be no donations. The same holds true for clubs....some volunteer, some donate, and yet others are benefactors of the donations and volunteer spirits of others....I would challenge everyone reading this to ask themselves...which am I?

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***

This is one of those times, where it would have helped to be in an actual coffee shop, so we could more quickly sort through what each other meant! Nonetheless, I now see the disconnect...

I never meant to say that I didn't need to join a club, because I already volunteer at hunts. I meant that membership has to be more than just supporting hunts, because you can have one without the other.

Let's use the one man show, as an example once again. Let's say that 40 competitors show up at his house, and at least 10 volunteer to guide and/or judge. By today's standards, that could be considered a pretty succesful competition hunt. But we missed out on the warmth and "charm" of hanging out at a club house, playing some euchre, making new friends, etc. It was more like a business transaction.

And that's why I believe that if you want a succesful club, with more meaningful membership, you have to work at something more than the competiton side of it. Like the examples, Joe gave with the local club that is reinventing itself.

Now onto the other topic of number of clubs being supported....

I think this is the same issue that plagues our government... We've lost the art of negotiation and compromise! And I'm not even talking about nuclear disarmament, but why can't two bluetick breeders (insert any breed, really) get along and agree on something without having to start a new association?!? Before we ask trappers and houndsman to join hands, how about the coon hunters in one state collaborate on their needs and work together, as opposed to having multiple state associations with a portion of the members, instead of one, with all the members???

Because if we can't agree and get along, how can we expect other sportsman to support us? It ain't that hard! Do you think the antis are all alike? Heck no, they come from all walks of life. But they have one common goal and one common enemy... All of us! And for them, that's enough common ground, to get something done.

We need to take note, and follow their example of teamwork, because right now, they're having way more success than we are. I mean, if two strong personalities, like Joe and I, can get along; there's still hope! LOL

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

hunt

round 10 hey dave and joe we are having a hunt this friday nite you guys come on down i will buy the coffee

__________________
TREEPICKING KENNELS !!

HOME OF "" GR.CH. TREEPICKING MAGIC MAN
http://wmagicwebb.tripod.com Lots of us have the right Aim in life ,but most of us run out of ammunition ROGER & DORIS WEBB

quote:

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Originally posted by CWT This is a great post. I like a dog to hunt like this.
I dont do nite hunts would like to try but dont know if my pleasure hound could do it. I got a blue female that will hunt and rarely check in. I like a dog to check in but not to often. but if the coon arent there or are not moving i dont want to waste my time in that spot either I want her to come back and we will move on. We hunt a spot 142 acres and I dont know what you consider deep but for me 400 yards and no locate is to far. I can not stand a dog that will barrel down a road or 4 wheeler trail and pass up a bunch of coons. My dog will do that sometines but when she does she will race out to about 500 then hunt her way back towards me why she does that I have no idea. I dont like a dog that is independent and maybe that is why I dont comp hunt. If my dog is out hunting and another hound is hunting and one opens up I want my dog to come in and help the other out unless mine is already treed then she better stay treed. I am out there to pleasure hunt and it isnt any fun for me if you are hunting 2 dogs and they both go in different directions. i want them together. but I dont want them busting out of the country to get a coon. Southwest ohio has plent of coon. Around here a dog should get treed within 200 to 300 yards of any given spot you drop them.

Doug

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Sorry Roger, I would if I was in the area, but this weekend I'm going to try to find a club up here in Wisconsin and take my female out!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Looking for Advice...

*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***

Alright coffee shop patrons, I need some advice...

F&T's, the sponsor of our old show (Tailgate Adventures), has been producing a trapping show (North American Trapper), since we went off the air. They are now wanting to do a combination trapping, hound, predator calling show and have asked me to host a few of their hound episodes.

The problem is that they want to film and produce it themselves with just one guy, and I have concerns over their ability to produce a quality hound show. We certainly weren't perfect, but we worked out a lot of bugs on filming dogs in the dark, and it's a lot different than filming a trapping show. And I fear they want to drastically change the format from what Joe and I did.

At the same time, it would be a way to keep my name out there, and if I don't do it, someone else will.

So do I do it, and risk it not be the quality of production I really want to be associated with? Or do I pass, and let someone else take a stab at representing our sport?

Thanks for any thoughts and advice!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Show

Not sure a bunch of trees and coon on the tailgate is a good representation of the sport. The highlight of the show is to hear about the dogs and listen to them run track and tree. My guess is the dead coon is the least of anyone's interest.
I guess it depends on what your goals are in television. If you think it will be a stepping stone to something better, maybe you try to do it and hope that your influence can make for a suitable production.
One thing for sure, it will either make you look good or bad.

You're absolutley right Rick, and my fear is it may be the latter!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Dave,

The F&T guys are very approachable. Tell them your concerns, and ask if they are willing to compromise. Allan Probst that host their trapping show already has a long history of doing videos, and I sure they knew exactly what they were getting.

In fact, take them out to video a segment let them see first hand the difficulties.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Birthday Boy

Happy Birthday, Dave.

Thanks Rick!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

TGA

You want a show that emphasizes that we are sportsmen and not just hide hunters - that we enjoy breeding better dogs, training our animals and the thrill of the chase more than the kill. And, while the kill is far from what thrills us the most about our sport, it is important to convey that harvesting and management of our coon as well as other wild populations is necessary in the process of maintaining balance in the natural environment.
I think these are things that you think are important. Anything less might be exciting to some, but would do more harm to our sport than good.
Best of luck with your decision.

I agree Rick... In 26 episodes, I think there were only 4 or 5 where we harvested any game. The storyline was more about taking kids hunting, training dogs and enjoying comradarie.

I'm still waiting to hear back from F&T on the format. And will keep you guys posted.

*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***

New topic... Deer hunting.

Ok, now that I'm faced with less choices on coon hunting and deer hunting, I may be forced to answer the question of whether I'm a hypocrite!?!

I firmly believe that our dogs have very little impact on deer movement. I'm also confident that I don't need to be fully equipped with a thousand dollar bow and a $400 scent free outfit, but I do like having an advantage! So, if I have patterned a big buck in my woods, I'm not so sure I want to do anything to put that at risk! Now once the rut is in, and patterns are totally random, running dogs through the woods are not going to blow a buck out of the area, or have them avoid it.

BUT, bumping one may move him to the opposite end of the woods, to where I'll be sitting in the morning. Now again, if the rut is in, I can probably call him to my end of the woods, but if I'm relying on him to get up and simply walk by me, that may be a different situation. And with the woods about to get crowded, up here in Wisconsin, I have no time to waste.

Ok now, be honest, what do you other houndsman/ deer hunters think??? I'm not saying that hounds ruin deer hunting, I'm just saying any presence in the woods is somewhat disruptive.

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

I coonhunt all the woods I am planning on hunting and have never had a problem seeing or harvesting a buck. If you go into a woods tonight you have no idea where the buck will follow a hot doe. She might stay put , she might feed thru the section to a bedding area or it might be a doe from a completely different area altogether and wouldn't stay no matter what, she would head back to her home turf. One thing I notice thru the years. Is I see alot of different mature bucks during shotgun season that I didn't see thru archery season. They are following hot does to different territories.

Jmo for what it is worth.

__________________
if its there eventually it will look

Mark Warner

"HOME OF PREDAWN KENNELS"

http://www.tekonshathunder.homestead.com

The #1 thing that changes a deer's pattern is a deer hunter sneaking in to his stand and getting busted out of that stand. I'll drop the dogs down the same ridge I plan to hunt the very next morning. A deer knows when you're after it and when you aren't.

__________________
John Walker

PKC CH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Southern Farms Jeb
GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Southern Farms Pearl
UKC NITECH AKC NITECH 'PR' Southern Farms Independence
'PR' Southern Farms Bohannon

Gone But Not Forgotten:
UKC NITECH GRCH AKC NITECH 'PR' Southern Farms Bocephus
GRNITECH 'PR' Lookin' Up Liberty

901-282-9262

I don't think a mature buck relates coon hunters with deer hunters.Ive walked right by feeding bucks on my way to a dog treed.Most mature bucks are nocturnal anyway. I hunt both.

I don't disagree with anything you guys are saying, during the rut. But it's archery season, well before bucks are chasing hot does. And during the rut, and gun season, I've done the exact same things you guys are saying.

But... if I want a chance at shooting that buck, coming out of his bedding area, with my bow; I'm not sure I want my dogs treeing in that bedding area the night before. Even if he just wanders a hundred yards away and lays back down, just to get away from all that racket, he's now going to get up, well out of my bow range.

They don't have to be afraid of me or my dogs, to just wander out of our way, and that will screw up the pattern I was expecting to see in the morning. With a bow, just 40-50 yards makes all the difference!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

If I had a true wall hanger I was after and had him on my trail camera regularly.I would take a break from running the hounds there for a couple weeks. Here in Ohio we only get on buck a year so we take it pretty seriously.

I think that's really what it comes down to... if you just want to get a deer, the dogs aren't going to spook all of them. And none of them will go that far away. But if you have a big one patterned, then you may want to take him out, before you test this theory.

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

I believe the odds of harvesting a nice buck go up when they are knocked out of their pattern. Many mature bucks around here become pretty much nocturnal, and lets face it they got big because they were good at avoiding hunters. Im in the woods a couple hundred nights a year and see deer every night, many dont leave their beds and the ones that do might move off a hundred yards but are back an hour later. Deer hunters are hard to convinnce but hounds in the woods at night increase the chances that those deer miight be slightly out of their comfort zones at sunup.JMO.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

That's an interesting point John... if the chaos of the rut, move deer around and therefore increase our odds of seeing one. Disrupting one's sleep, and getting him "out of sorts" may have a similar effect.

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Don't no if this is related but in the last 2 years the coyote population where I deer hunt has growed a lot.Last 2 years the deer are constantly spooked and always on alert.They have no idea I'm ever in the woods but every little noise they hear they freak out and the mature buck sittings during daylight have went way down.Last Saturday the deer came stampeding off the feild into the timber I was in.Right by my stand and were being followed closely by coyotes which never offered a shot.I know I have to thin then coyotes down ASAP!

Coyotes picking off their young may give the deer a different perspective on canines! Not necessarily a threat to the really big bucks, but something that will spook them. That topic has also been debated multiple times, but my friend Shane Smith, who I very much trust, told me he watched two big yotes take down a young 8-pointer last year, while he was out predator calling. That will change the game, if their population is not kept in check!

And just an hour North of where I live in Wisconsin, their are now wolves! And that's something that is a threat to a young hunter out by himself at night, without a weapon. Especially in the Spring when pups are being born.

The effect of other canines, on a deer's perspective of our hounds, is a good point!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

like was posted above most mature bucks are nocturnal until the rut starts. If they are feeding at night hunting in or near their respective bedding areas makes no difference what so ever because they are out feeding and not in their bedding area. I can't count the number of times my dogs have treed with deer laying 150 feet away watching it all take place and never offer to move or how many times you walk by a bedded down deer that watches you amble by without disturbing him or her. Deer are just so much more at ease after dark then they are in the daylight. but whatever you choose good luck in the upcoming deer season.

__________________
if its there eventually it will look

Mark Warner

"HOME OF PREDAWN KENNELS"

http://www.tekonshathunder.homestead.com