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Great post.

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
When all the smoke clears the term that will come back to bite the houndsman is "4 legged", If the intent of the bill is truly to broaden the ability to prosecute people involved in dog on dog fighting what could possibly be the reason for this terminology?

Anyone bright enough to pass a bar exam knows full well what the agenda is here.
If passed the antis. will in short order move to have the exclusion for hunting ammended out of the bill on the basis that cruelty is cruelty regardless of the circumstance.
At some level someones feet were held to the fire to garner UKCs. support on a bill that is so obviously not in the interest of a large portion of their customer base.
Under the surface here is the theory that anything fighting anything is a cruel act when condoned by anyone, and HSUS. and PETA. will only need to find a liberal judge to establish precedent.

I can understand UKCs. predicament, they didnt want to be seen as opposing a bill which on its surface is designed to get the lowlifes that fight dogs, but to offer support without reguesting some changes in terminology was foolhearty.

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quote:

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Originally posted by berger
Here again the news wants to paint law officers as reckless, this officer was doing her job and investigating a call. Where the news and media should focus there attention is in the call that was a false accusation that led to the detrimental hurt to dog and family. You can almost bet 100 to 1 odds the caller was someone that is for HSUS.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NiteRageLink
Berger, I was going to post another post adding to that but you took the words right out of my mouth. I agree with you 100% except for the fact that I have seen quite a few cases like this locally and on news feeds where there was absolutely no reason at all for an officer/officers to open fire on a dog. The thing that I really wanted to point out though in my follow up was to cite the details of the false accusations and how the new proposal of HB 154 could easily put hunters in a situation involved with the law because of the way a witness of someone's hunting activities assumes something and accesses the activity. Whether you're in a hunt or just out hide hunting during the season and the law states you are exempt, if someone calls and reports you you're still going to have to deal with the law. Whether you're guilty or not won't be determined until an officer shows up and accesses the situation for themselves.

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319-201-8445

What if

It's November and u squall a coon down a tree to get a good fight for a young dog, and you take a bunch of new kids to get them in the sport. Well someone videos it cause he's proud of his pup and coon is whooping up on the pup. Let's say three faces are seen in this video of the kids that went with you. They don't have there hunting license but your on your land but anyhow the wrong people see video and it goes virual. Could I get in trouble and could u imagine a young kid get a felony over something like this.

And yes I know this would most likely not happen but why would we chance it Todd, it's not worth it when there's nuff laws to take care of dog fighting. Heck I love dogs and hate seeing them get harmed. But you guys and all of us hunters need to become more involve with children being neglected etc and post involvements on front page about that. Get kids involve with a pet that is ukc register. It really bothers me to see you all stand behind this bill until it's worded the right way. I hate gray areas, it gives these money hungery bad lawyers ways to make a extra dollar. I know some lawyers are good people but I've yet to see many in Kentucky.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chiggers
I would bet there are more dog fights while coonhunting in Ky then there are between so called dog fighters. I have only knew one Person in my life that did it, and he just kept a few and talked about it. I worked with him years ago. When he would talk about it, they would let them get together and when one would get the best of the other, they broke it up. It didnt amount to crap, I have had pups in the yard get into it more serious than that. I talked him into getting rid of them by telling him over and over that if they came in on him they would make it look like he was a king pin.

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when policemen ignore the law, then there isn't any law. there's just a fight for survival.

*billy jack

It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

hsus wins again the big bad grey wolf was added back to the endangered species list today in Michigan and northern iowa after law suit won against federal government even a back woods hick like me can see the money n power hsus has to take away freedoms of others to enjoy the things they hold dearly

KY HB 154

I find this ironic that over the last 5 days there has been a lot of conversation about this bill. I have seen a lot about this and how about that would that be protected under this new bill. The most ironic thing I saw where someone said no it wouldn't be illegal and said why the guy would be legal and gave why it would be legal and protected under this new bill But he had to change up the wording of this Bill to protect the actions described.
So reading some of these what about this and thinking of some real live no what if's Real coonhunting and training, coyote hunting, hog hunting and real live hunting and farming I can come up with a handful of real actual happenings that I could make a very good case in court against hunting, rodeos and farming practices and have no doubt I could WIN. I am not even a lawyer So what do you think A Lawyer could do?!

Fact is this is a very Bad BAD Bill and needs to be stopped and OPPOSED

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Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

if you are refering to me,,, how did i change anything to make my way seen right

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KY HB154

To whom it may concern

What I am about to type will probably offend many here, although that is not my intent.

My intent is for people to stop and think about the future before they jump on any political band wagon!

For the record I am apolitical and have learned to distrust and despise all politicians regardless of political party.

Ky HB 154 is a symptom of the disease masquerading as the cure.
One needs to be careful about supporting any laws that raise taxes, give government blank checks or more power over any aspect of your life this is how a free citizenry descends to subjects at best then serfs or slaves at worst, more than 90% of the laws written, passed and then enforced in the last 100 years have had unintended consequences none of which have been good for the American citizenry as a whole!

Take the Patriot Act for example any reasonable and prudent person should expect their government to spy on foreign enemies and allies alike, but it is currently and from its inception being used to spy on American citizens. It is just another symptom.

If any government of a free people by a free people and for a free people does not trust the citizens then that government is either totally corrupt with wicked intent or it just and should round up all dissenters and deport them immediately or execute them.

Or on a more personal level think about the Jim Crow laws and the supposedly well meaning people who voted for and supported the morons masquerading has politicians who wrote and then enforced them!

Here is one for you the prohibition act what a joke!

War on drugs another joke!

Just for starters read Dark Alliance by Gary Webb, official cause of death suicide in 2004 shot himself in the head twice? Or if you do not read, watch the movie Kill the Messenger. Some stories are too true to be told. No worries it is just another symptom.

War on poverty another joke gone bad since 1965 the Government, (Our Government) both Republicans and Democrats along with all of the so called mainstream media and lobbyist lackeys are the filthy rich and yes we have poor in this country but if you think that the rich are going to give up their money you need to stop smoking crack!

The powers that be are only going to continue and fleece the yeoman middle class so in the end we can all live on our benevolent Uncle Sam’s Plantation. After all it is just another symptom and as they always say it is for the children, or another favorite of the politicians, the studies show and experts say, real catchy phrases for the sheep from Animal Farm!

I could give you a hundred examples or more of bad laws and how short sighted our so called soothsayer fortune telling, snake oil salesmen masquerading has politicians really are! And so could many of you here.

If one stopped for a minute and really thought about it. We are so divided by the left/ right political correct garbage it is no longer funny.

This law like so many before is so ambiguously written it could and will in the near future be used nefariously against all hunters. Make no mistake deer and bird hunters along with farmers will be next because that is the ultimate goal of HSUS, they are a suicidal anti –human organization. In the end it is just another symptom.

Soon only the King and Nobility will be able to hunt or fish in the Kings forest or on the Kings land, is that what real Americans want?

I for one love dogs and would never fight dogs period, but with that said I will use the Mike Vick case has an example in my humble opinion he should have never gone to jail or even been charged period, those dogs where his private property on his private property same thing applies to chickens!

If one does not like it do not go or attend. In short mind your own business, before the government gets the lofty and noble idea to gore your ox after they are finished goring your neighbors which you supported!

Government really only has few jobs at most regulate foreign trade, to repel foreign invasions ,yet has of late since 1965 seems to be sponsoring and supporting foreign invaders from both sides of the political aisle!

Government has no real authority over its citizens except to punish criminals which with each law that passes creates more felons who cannot vote, cannot own property, etc they are nothing more than subjects at best ,serfs or slaves at worst.

If these newly minted felons are no longer citizens then the death penalty should be imposed for all crimes and dissent against the state.

I know it is just a symptom, but think of all the money the Government can save in order to line its pockets, I mean spend on social programs. One has to love political correctness coupled with progressive communism.

If you have not figured it out Government is the disease masquerading has the cure. Shakespeare pretty much sums up all politicians with his opening line from the play Caesar “ Friends, Romans, countrymen lend me your ears, we have come to bury Caesar not to praise him the evil that men do live after them the good is often interred with their bones”.

If one does not care please feel free to return to the bread and circuses provided for you like American Idol etc. and "may your chains rest lightly upon you and posterity forget we where once countrymen" The name of the author escapes my fading memory at this time but he was one of the founding fathers of this great nation.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Re: KY HB154

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuck Allen
This law like so many before is so ambiguously written it could and will in the near future be used nefariously against all hunters. Make no mistake deer and bird hunters along with farmers will be next because that is the ultimate goal of HSUS, they are a suicidal anti –human organization. In the end it is just another symptom.

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Join the NRA

AMERICA, not Amerika, Chuck.

AMERICA really?

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

to these people houndsmen, farmers, ect are no different than the other actions so many here are quick to denounce. to them a chicken fight is the same as a dog fight and the same as ol sounder running a coon up a tree.

they make no distinction and so neither do I.

I don't pit roosters with gaffs against each other but if 2 of them cross paths in the yard and duke it out I have no problem eating the loser. I also know 2 roosters have never in the history of roosters been able to get along regardless of where they crossed paths.


Im not about to put my pit in a ring and let her duke it out with another, but if one gets in the yard you better believe she is going to make it change addresses. that is of course if she isn't too busy playing tug of war or keep away with our beagle puppy and its toys or walking the elder lady who lives next door to the mail box and back to her door. to ARA (animal rights activists) both are dog fights.

my LGDs (past tense actually as we sold the herd and no longer have them) carry baby lambs and kids to the house if a new mamma abandons them, but will rip a dog or coyote in to tiny little pieces if they dare to threaten those same lambs or kids. all ARA see is a killer waiting to kill.


to them we are all killers and need to be stopped. think about that next time you brand someone elses crime worse than yours.

__________________
when policemen ignore the law, then there isn't any law. there's just a fight for survival.

*billy jack

It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

Great post Chuck

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David Roy

The bad part about the whole deal is even if the bill doesn't get passed we can all see where ukc is at in relation with Hsus. Because whether they admit or not they know **** well the reasons behind using term four legged animal instead of dog. So it will be illegal to coyote hunt,hog hunt,etc.

The four legged term was ALREADY IN THE LAW!

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quote:

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Originally posted by HOBO
The four legged term was ALREADY IN THE LAW!

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

so this whole thread is about ukc having something to do with the bill. not the fact that the law can do everything people are complaining about.. everything everybody is complaining about happening can already happen to them.. has any of it happend to them yet.. NO. i dont suport the bill or the law. but burning ukc at the stake is not gona solve there problems.. everything people are afraid gona happen already can by the law now... if i am wrong please inlighten me

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quote:

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Originally posted by Skinner back
The bad part about the whole deal is even if the bill doesn't get passed we can all see where ukc is at in relation with Hsus. Because whether they admit or not they know **** well the reasons behind using term four legged animal instead of dog. So it will be illegal to coyote hunt,hog hunt,etc.

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quote:

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Originally posted by walkerman75
so this whole thread is about ukc having something to do with the bill. not the fact that the law can do everything people are complaining about.. everything everybody is complaining about happening can already happen to them.. has any of it happend to them yet.. NO. i dont suport the bill or the law. but burning ukc at the stake is not gona solve there problems.. everything people are afraid gona happen already can by the law now... if i am wrong please inlighten me

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UKC

I for one am not trying to bash, ukc or burn them at the stake, tar and feather them or anything of that sort.

A big thank you to ukc for all you do!

The point I am trying to get across is that we has Americans are under attack on all fronts!

Does anyone here think it is a coincidence of the alleged threats on mall of America at the same time dhs funding is up for a vote.

But no one wants to secure the borders? But we have credible threats yeah right, are they really doing anything about real security at any malls or any schools etc. NO!

Yes ISIS is a threat but our willfully ignorant or deliberate incompetent government is a bigger threat.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Folks keep sayin it was already in the law, what difference does that make. UKC should not lend support to a law with that wording, it is an avenue for zealots to abuse the intent.

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Dennis Robinson
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I understand that this bill is supposed to make baiting or fighting dogs illegal. I understand that as a business UKC feels it would be a PR mess to oppose a bill that stamps out such an evil.

I also understand that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


do I find cock fighting distastefull...........when gaffs are used yes.......do I find dog fighting distastefull.......if one is forced to fight or cant get away.


would I rather have a dog pit on every street and a chicken ring in every barn than for coon hunting or coyote hunting or hog hunting ect to be outlawed. you bet I would.

we are on the defensive when it comes to our rights and where we should be is on the attack. instead of being divided we should be united. instead of lending support to "dog fighting bills" we should be pushing for right to farm laws or bills like the one (the state escapes me atm) that would make it illegal for HSUS to kill off the majority of the "rescues" they take in. make them defend themselves in court not attack us there.

"when faced with a superior (larger) force, attack where he is weak and avoid where he is strong" Sun Tsu

__________________
when policemen ignore the law, then there isn't any law. there's just a fight for survival.

*billy jack

It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

quote:

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Originally posted by HOBO
The way I see it this is the part most of them keep screaming about. Why are they just now screaming about it if its always been written that way. It would make more sense to me to yell at the top of your lungs for years before hand to try and get the wording changed, not now. I've not spoken up on the issue one way or the other.

What I have spoken up and tried to defend was the way several of the ones were attacking Todd K. Todd has been a good friend to everyone that post on this board and has worked and continues to work hard for the hunters. I feel if Todd or Allen either one felt this bill was as bad as most keep trying to say it is they would be screaming against it just as hard as the others.

I agree with Todd when he said earlier that the tethering bill in Md is more dangerous than the bill in Ky.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

One thing people dont realize is that if it wasnt for legitimate dog men of old there wouldn't even be a pit bull. What we have forgotten is that this is America and it isn't no ones business what someone does with his property. Fighting dogs and chickens have been around longer than hounds and some great men have handled both. The real problem is this politically correct world we live in and the glorifying of this hip hop society that has created a generation of thugs with no sense of tradition or patriotism. George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin all were avid cockers. Dog fighting went on in Europe centurys ago and has been in the U.S. since the first Staffordshires were brought here about the time of the civil war.

The HSUS is nothing more than a propaganda machine to generate dollars for their own pockets, they dont even own a facility to house an animal yet they take in over 100 million a year in donations. Alot of folks in this country find hunting and killing animals distasteful as you put it and would love to see it stamped out too.

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