UKC Forums - Judge this??

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
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-- Judge this?? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928272815)

Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 01:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
How did you know it was the same tree??

the man that made the thread said it was!!!!!

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
How did you know it was the same tree??

If you go back and read the original post he says all dogs were seen treed there togeather and then 2 of the 3 left.

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Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 01:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
If you go back and read the original post he says all dogs were seen treed there togeather and then 2 of the 3 left.

And moved over to their original tree

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 01:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by englishbuddy
And moved over to their original tree

Which was also a previously scored tree.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 01:46 AM:

You're putting the buggy in front of the horse guys.You can't determine anything about a tree until you determine what's at the tree first,that means handled.If we're treed together and as we're walking in mine leaves and there's a coon sitting,you all ain't gonna plus me up cause we SEEN mine in there with yours.LOL.

Allen or Todd need to respond to this post because I might be wrong but until I hear something different from them,I'll be minusing dogs for leaving.

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Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 01:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Which was also a previously scored tree.

Yes Agreed !!!!! Simple to me delete !!!!!

Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 01:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
You're putting the buggy in front of the horse guys.You can't determine anything about a tree until you determine what's at the tree first,that means handled.If we're treed together and as we're walking in mine leaves and there's a coon sitting,you all ain't gonna plus me up cause we SEEN mine in there with yours.LOL.

Allen or Todd need to respond to this post because I might be wrong but until I hear something different from them,I'll be minusing dogs for leaving.

Now your talkin bout something totally different

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 01:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
You're putting the buggy in front of the horse guys.You can't determine anything about a tree until you determine what's at the tree first,that means handled.If we're treed together and as we're walking in mine leaves and there's a coon sitting,you all ain't gonna plus me up cause we SEEN mine in there with yours.LOL.

Allen or Todd need to respond to this post because I might be wrong but until I hear something different from them,I'll be minusing dogs for leaving.

If the cast is walking in togeather they will certainly realize that this is the tree they just scored moments earlier before the dogs are handled. Heck i have recognized trees that my dogs treed on years earlier. At that time i assume a judge would say right then PREVIOUSLY SCORED TREE, all points are deleted.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 01:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by englishbuddy
Now your talkin bout something totally different

I don't see ANY difference.You guys are wanting to score dogs that you see at a tree,not what you handle.LOL.

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Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 01:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
I don't see ANY difference.You guys are wanting to score dogs that you see at a tree,not what you handle.LOL.

If you cant plus me you cant minus me ... You can operate on a dead cow but it aint goin to give you any milk.....

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
I don't see ANY difference.You guys are wanting to score dogs that you see at a tree,not what you handle.LOL.

Exactly thats what UKC. does, dogs returning get a pass, no points plus minus or circle we drag them away and recut them as if it never happened just like a mulligan. Your not even required to call them, I have seen lots of judges when its obveous that a dog has returned and the cast agrees just send the handler in to grab up his dog alone because it just doesnt count. NO PLUS NO MINUS NO CIRCLE.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:12 AM:

You ain't minused for being on a dead tree,you're minused for leaving one.No different then treeing a dog running low down....You can't minus me cause there ain't no trees out there?????It's a bad call and minused.You and your dog went to the hunt to win as a team.....and half the team messed up.LOL.

Just having fun with this and nothing personal guys.It's been a great debate.LOL.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:14 AM:

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
Exactly thats what UKC. does, dogs returning get a pass, no points plus minus or circle we drag them away and recut them as if it never happened just like a mulligan. Your not even required to call them, I have seen lots of judges when its obveous that a dog has returned and the cast agrees just send the handler in to grab up his dog alone because it just doesnt count. NO PLUS NO MINUS NO CIRCLE.

I agree but if you tree,you gotta wait the 5 minutes and go score treed dog,right?? [/QUOTE]

Nope you dont, if the cast agrees it is a previously scored tree the cast can proceed immediatly.
Usually when this happens dogs have been struck but not treed. You dont run the 8 do ya?

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Posted by l.lyle on 10-03-2012 02:21 AM:

That's what I understand. I'm not up on the latest advisor rulings and have forgot most of the old rules. A dog gets called treed after he is struck, and works a track 2 hundred yards, the five is running and he leaves. He is minus because nobody knows that was a previously scored tree or realy has any reason to suspect it. Dog should have stayed and got a mulligan and sent on. But that is not what the example is. The example is they walked off 2 minutes. That might be a hundred feet leading dogs in brush or up a mountain. But I walked in shorts and loafers across my yard not leading a dog and got two hundred yards. Never the less 200 yards shortly after recast and dogs tree behind you in short order the first suspicion I have is they went back. If in fact they did go back they get a mulligan when you recognise it was in fact a previously scored tree.

By the way how long was it when they "Saw" the dogs leave till the were treeing on the other previously scored tree? 15 seconds 30 seconds? Nothing surprises me. I was minus one night when the gudge said handle your dogs mine came to me two bounces and I missed her collar and she wheeled around and back to the tree in anout 4 seconds. I was minus for the dog leaving the tree as well as "putting her head down and going back on track". LOL Shheeesh some people either really want to win bad or just don't know one iota about actual coonhunting.

Posted by D.Boyd on 10-03-2012 02:26 AM:

We didn't know Officially it was the same tree till we handled the one that stayed and looked at the tree and knew it was. We came in from a different direction than we did the first time. I say if u tree your dog it needs to stay or be minused, don't see anyway around it. Without handling the dogs at the tree u can't say Definately it's a previous scored tree. If going on what some are saying from now on Tom if one of ours leave a tree I'm gonna argue it was a previous scored tree if we don't have to handle the dogs at that tree. When our dog leaves just say"that's a previous scored tree just delete those points and go on with hunt. LoL. They should be handled before u score either way. Just my opinion.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
That's what I understand. I'm not up on the latest advisor rulings and have forgot most of the old rules. A dog gets called treed 2 hundred yards off the five is running and he leaves. He is minus because nobody knows that was a previously scored tree or realy has any reason to suspect it. Dog should have stayed and got a mulligan and sent on. But that is not what the example is. The example is they walked off 2 minutes. That might be a hundred feet leading dogs in brush or up a mountain. But I walked in shorts and loafers across my yard not leading a dog and got two hundred yards. Never the less 200 yards shortly after recast and dogs tree behind you in short order the first suspicion I have is they went back. If in fact they did go back they get a mulligan.

Bet youd paint a pretty picture sportin those loafers in the marsh.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I agree but if you tree,you gotta wait the 5 minutes and go score treed dog,right??

Nope you dont, if the cast agrees it is a previously scored tree the cast can proceed immediatly.
Usually when this happens dogs have been struck but not treed. You dont run the 8 do ya? [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe you do John.General Information....you got to wait the 5.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
Nope you dont, if the cast agrees it is a previously scored tree the cast can proceed immediatly.
Usually when this happens dogs have been struck but not treed. You dont run the 8 do ya?

I believe you do John.General Information....you got to wait the 5. [/B][/QUOTE]

If you dont need to run the 8 if they are struck, why would you have to run the 5 if they are treed? previously scored trees are exempt from all scoring so times become irrelivent.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:35 AM:

Why would you run the 8 with a dog barking treed??

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:37 AM:

Surely you don't want me to believe you can delete points for striking off of a deleted tree?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
Why would you run the 8 with a dog barking treed??

After the dog that stayed is handled, i assumed if you have minused the other 2 for leaving you would start the 8 on them to get the leash locked dog recast. you still have to deal with their srike points someway.

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Posted by stillwater farm on 10-03-2012 02:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
After the dog that stayed is handled, i assumed if you have minused the other 2 for leaving you would start the 8 on them to get the leash locked dog recast. you still have to deal with their srike points someway.

I got ya now.Wow,you lost me for a second.LOL.

That is exactly what I would of done,they have been treed already and still not been handled at a tree,hole,barn,or anything else and are still moving......I would of minused them on the tree and ran the 8.I don't feel they could be scored until they have been handled somewhere.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 10-03-2012 02:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by stillwater farm
Surely you don't want me to believe you can delete points for striking off of a deleted tree?

Well thats my question for UKC. If their tree points are deleted when we saw them on a dead tree, wouldnt the strike points dissapear at the same time?

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Posted by englishbuddy on 10-03-2012 03:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Well thats my question for UKC. If their tree points are deleted when we saw them on a dead tree, wouldnt the strike points dissapear at the same time?

The dogs are not at large they move over to dogs a an b's original dead tree......

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