UKC Forums - Blueticks at the world' why we caint win it

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-- Blueticks at the world' why we caint win it (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928509732)

Posted by everett on 01-27-2019 04:17 AM:

amen

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
I’m no Bletick guy but I’m gonna try and help you guys out because I’m friends with a bunch of them. I was in the final 4 in 2017 and got beat by the Willy dog last year in the late round to determine the last spot in the final cast. Willy didn’t hardly say anything on the ground but he had coon treeing on his mind and averaged around 15 mph in the 2 hour cast. It doesn’t take a barking idiot to win. It takes one that’s lightning fast and has coons when it’s treed. Most of the dogs you see winning the trucks and all of the money in the other KC’s average in the double digits on the garmin all the time and they aren’t blowing by coon they are just getting to them faster. If you find one that averages over 10 miles an hour and a tree with a coon every 15 to 20 minutes depending on population on Recuts you have something. A guy named Kevin Cable has a dog called little money. He’s won just about everything including a world hunt in another KC and I’ve seen pictures where he will be .7 and averaged over 18 miles an hour. That’s what it takes to win a world hunt. Dennis Elbrader is never gonna let me here the end of it if a blue wins lol

__________________
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Posted by everett on 01-27-2019 04:19 AM:

amen again

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
One more thing before I go and I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes with this but y’all as a whole are some kennel blind jealous jerks. If someone has a really good blue dog that has good qualities instead of going to breed to him you snub your nose because he isn’t out of your line. There are plenty of Blue dogs with good qualities just not blue dog men with the Good qualities to combine there dogs. That’s why the walkers remain at the head of the pack. We breed coon dogs to coon dogs winners to winners and rarely do they truly care how they are bred. We have literally had guys call wanting to breed to our dog and not know how he was bred until they showed up with there female to breed. They just heard about his traits and that’s what they wanted. Until The Bluetick men can truly unify you will continue to suck hind tit.
There you guys have it 2 post worth of honest unbiased opinion from someone who pays attention to dogs and knows the qualities it takes to win the big one.

Posted by novicane65 on 01-27-2019 08:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
The next question is, what dogs are producing dogs that hunt fast? I would guess, Northern Dancer, and Bocephus.

you can ask this question until you're blue in the face. You'll get told old so n so is. So you ask well give me some more information on him. And then you find out that he averages 3&4 mph. So you dig around and find a dog that does average 7-8 mph.

Here's some facts, you need a dog with a big motor, that trees coons when it parks, be quick at locating coons, preferably have a unique and loud mouth that carries well, and be very well rounded between big timber and edging. So if you lack the big motor you have to make up for it in other ways, like having more coon sense. What I mean by that is a dog that has an ability to find a coon track when others can't. Reason you need to be well rounded between edging and big timber is you'll end up hunting both. Now when little money is avg 15-18 mph in the 2nd hunt time, he's edging mostly. But even in big timber little money is avg 10-12 mph.

If you're dog doesn't have all of these qualities, it needs make up for 1 of the qualities it lacks. So it'll have to have to be extra special in 1 of the other departments.

I've gotten told there's no way a dog can average that type of speed. Facts are that the avg hunter thinks 5-6 is fast. And to me its below avg. I've come to the conclusion that I'm done trying to find a dog with a blue hide to fit my bill. I've found dogs in most other breeds that fit but not this 1. I've been looking off and on now for 5 years. And I'm pretty much done.

__________________
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

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Posted by gcblues on 01-28-2019 02:47 AM:

15mph equals 410 yards per minute while trailing a coon ?Average ? That means he’s faster sometimes . I’d like to see that . This ain’t a news flash there’s not many of any breed that hunt that fast on a coon and never will be .world champ or otherwise .

Posted by novicane65 on 01-28-2019 01:55 PM:

Contrary to what most of you think. There's actually a good number of dogs that hunt fast, hard, and thorough. Just seems to not be in this breed much at all or non existent. I'm not the only person that's looking for it. But no luck so far.

Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 01-30-2019 11:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gcblues
15mph equals 410 yards per minute while trailing a coon ?Average ? That means he’s faster sometimes . I’d like to see that . This ain’t a news flash there’s not many of any breed that hunt that fast on a coon and never will be .world champ or otherwise .

Sunday night we turned a dog loose in a big river bottom started the watch when we cut him looked at it when he got treed. He was .81 in 4 min 50 seconds treed with a coon averaged over 16 mph. He started opening around .67 miles so the last quarter of that was running a coon. He hasn’t won a world hunt been in the final 3 of one but we are hoping he will win a new truck this weekend.

__________________
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Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Posted by breezyoaks on 01-31-2019 04:00 AM:

Straight liner

Must just run a straight line til he hits a track....
Likely ran right past half dozen coon in 5 minutes b4 he opened on the 6th one.

Just saying, that seems to be what's going on there.

__________________
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Home of the ROCK dog

Patrick Barrett

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 01-31-2019 04:10 AM:

Re: Straight liner

quote:
Originally posted by breezyoaks
Must just run a straight line til he hits a track....
Likely ran right past half dozen coon in 5 minutes b4 he opened on the 6th one.

Just saying, that seems to be what's going on there.

Nope try again. Zigs and Zags all over can run them hot, cold or ambush and lay ups. Knows how to go find a track where coons are thin and in hill-he// country that is nothing but thick timber. Will tree right at the truck or however far it takes. Runs in the teens every time he is turned loose night in and night out. There will be several more that hunt like him as competitors this weekend.

__________________
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Posted by Vic Stoll on 01-31-2019 04:17 AM:

Math??

Dalton, may want to double check your math? I come up with 10.05 mph for the distance/time you list. Now if he covered 1.29 miles and was .81 as the crow flies in 4:50, that would be 16 mph.

Regardless of math, that is flat out hauling a$$

Very few hounds of any breed (especially the blue ones) can cover the ground at that rate.

One HUGE difference between yourself and most Bluetickers, you enter your dog in elimination style hunts, and by doing so gain the knowledge of what it takes to win in that arena. Sure would be nice to see more Bluetickers enter those elimination style hunts, that would be the first step in evaluating if what’s on the end of the lead has what it takes. From my vantage point, that step has not yet been achieved by a substantial amount of Blue dog owners. Hard to tell where you need to get to if you never take the first step of the journey.

Best wishes and good luck to you and your hound at the truck hunt! I hope you bring home all the marbles!

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
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Posted by novicane65 on 01-31-2019 04:30 AM:

Vic he doesn't hunt a blue dog. But he might if there was more than 2-3 in the country that could move around like he and I are trying to explain. I know there's more walkers, but why can't anyone explain why the English dogs move around better? I do agree, there needs to be more blue dogs brought to elimination style hunts. Just my opinion though. I can say my partner and I will continue to look for a blue dog. We may never find it. But we know what we want in 1.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 01-31-2019 05:40 AM:

Been thinking on this and there were/are 2 breeds that did very little culling because of color instead of just ability Walkers and English dogs. For decades and in some breeds a century or longer to establish a breed strict "breed standards" were adhered to without enough thought on overall ability and the establishment of pure bred dogs lead to even more extremes and now dominate traits within each individual breed. Before the use of DNA crossbreeding occurred and breeds were able to use the strengths from others without consequence pups were culled for unwanted color combinations and passed as pure bred hounds, this most likely helped to keep breeds more balanced and healthier. Before the strong establishment of "pure bred", hounds were bred for purpose and choices were made based on the best available regardless of breed or color. The English breed when established was able to accept them all. I'm curious to see within time with the now established x-breed and English breeding within their own if it strengthens or weakens in overall ability. Walkers have went through phases of not enough tree, then to much affecting accuracy and now many have seen the error of their ways and are breeding again for tracking/running ability and pups that come out running (anything lol) and then tree with age. Their secret for longer term success will be dependent upon this balance of if it can be kept or if it swings once again.
Good luck on your quest.
Jen

Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 01-31-2019 06:43 AM:

Re: Math??

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Dalton, may want to double check your math? I come up with 10.05 mph for the distance/time you list. Now if he covered 1.29 miles and was .81 as the crow flies in 4:50, that would be 16 mph.

Regardless of math, that is flat out hauling a$$

Very few hounds of any breed (especially the blue ones) can cover the ground at that rate.

One HUGE difference between yourself and most Bluetickers, you enter your dog in elimination style hunts, and by doing so gain the knowledge of what it takes to win in that arena. Sure would be nice to see more Bluetickers enter those elimination style hunts, that would be the first step in evaluating if what’s on the end of the lead has what it takes. From my vantage point, that step has not yet been achieved by a substantial amount of Blue dog owners. Hard to tell where you need to get to if you never take the first step of the journey.

Best wishes and good luck to you and your hound at the truck hunt! I hope you bring home all the marbles!

I’m not sure on the distance traveled all together all I know is I reset my dog stats every single time I turn one loose pleasure hunting even on recuts. I want them in the teens every single time they are turned loose. Even on recuts.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 01-31-2019 06:46 AM:

Every single one of you guys that owns a Blue Female need to go beat down the man that owns big country’s door and try and breed them all to him. If every sure enough good female that came in heat was bred to him you’d see more good crosses than bad and you’d see a HUGE improvement in what’s on the end of your leash.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Posted by southernthunder on 01-31-2019 12:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
Every single one of you guys that owns a Blue Female need to go beat down the man that owns big country’s door and try and breed them all to him. If every sure enough good female that came in heat was bred to him you’d see more good crosses than bad and you’d see a HUGE improvement in what’s on the end of your leash.

When and where did you hunt with him? How many different times have you hunted with him? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What traits is he throwing in his pups that is dominant God and bad? You must know this hound inside and out to make such a statement as you made. Is this hound coming to the winter classic so we could spectate and see how he performs out of his normal element?

__________________
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Posted by Vic Stoll on 01-31-2019 12:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
Is this hound coming to the winter classic so we could spectate and see how he performs out of his normal element?

C’mon Ed, either you live under a rock or your sarcastically joking? Big Country has absolutely nothing to prove. He has went deep in the $KC World Hunt, the $HKC World Hunt, and won numerous other elimination style hunts all over the USA against some of the MOST ELITE competition in the USA. Yes he has lost his share as well, but he was entered up and went head to head against some of the best hounds in the country.

As for his pups, you have some legit questions. Time will tell, but I’m betting you’ll start hearing about some offspring this year.

The Silver Creek Rock dog is another Blue haired one that has done extremely well with in Big Elimination style hunts.

Posted by southernthunder on 01-31-2019 12:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
C’mon Ed, either you live under a rock or your sarcastically joking? Big Country has absolutely nothing to prove. He has went deep in the $KC World Hunt, the $HKC World Hunt, and won numerous other elimination style hunts all over the USA against some of the MOST ELITE competition in the USA. Yes he has lost his share as well, but he was entered up and went head to head against some of the best hounds in the country.

As for his pups, you have some legit questions. Time will tell, but I’m betting you’ll start hearing about some offspring this year.

The Silver Creek Rock dog is another Blue haired one that has done extremely well with in Big Elimination style hunts.

I know nothing about this dog. Has he ever been anywhere in the south in thin coon? What locations has he done his winning? These are important things to me because most dogs cant cut the mustard down here where they have to hunt far and wide to find a coon.

Posted by pamjohnson on 01-31-2019 02:38 PM:

From what I hear the mph from one Garmin collar to the next as well as some of the settings as well as other GPS systems may have some variation in the speed a little . But the facts remain the same speed is very important in any competition so it only makes sense to pay very close attention to it if you want to compete. Also the amount of time from cut loose to treed should be watched very closely as well 10 to 15 minutes or better every release thick or thin is ideal
Excuses won't help win.

Posted by coonbone on 01-31-2019 03:17 PM:

Does anyone know how Silver Creek Rock is bred?

Posted by hat creek mac on 01-31-2019 03:27 PM:

I promised myself I wouldn't participate in this conversation being an ignorant ol Blueticker that has hunted every color of dog known to man and settled with Blueticks. However, I have an honest question for those of you that are way more intelligent than me...

How did Big Country get all that hunt in him if all the Blueticks are boodling cold trailers that do good to hunt out of your light at a slow trot?

Did it just magically appear?

Posted by V. Cannon on 01-31-2019 04:07 PM:

I have seen the type dogs that’s mentioned here.

If I wanted to find one now I would look these dogs in a pedigree.

Slifes Rambo
Muddy Boggy Blue Dobber
Locktite
Echo/ Sextons jimmy

I’m sure these aren’t the only dogs that covered a lot of country but I know these dogs went hard.

Posted by novicane65 on 01-31-2019 05:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
I promised myself I wouldn't participate in this conversation being an ignorant ol Blueticker that has hunted every color of dog known to man and settled with Blueticks. However, I have an honest question for those of you that are way more intelligent than me...

How did Big Country get all that hunt in him if all the Blueticks are boodling cold trailers that do good to hunt out of your light at a slow trot?

Did it just magically appear?

I think I know where he got it from. But if there was a bunch of them just like him in the breed we would be seeing them. I also know that you do have a higher standard than most. But he again is he a fluke? Or is he the norm for your kennel? FYI I do have a pup coming off of him, but it'll be started by my partner not me.

And Eddie, he's won in all kinds of different terrain with different populations. There's only a few joysticks that have excelled in the elimination style hunts that I've seen. And as for his pups....time will tell but from everything I've been hearing on them they are gamey, and wild.

Posted by southernthunder on 01-31-2019 06:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I think I know where he got it from. But if there was a bunch of them just like him in the breed we would be seeing them. I also know that you do have a higher standard than most. But he again is he a fluke? Or is he the norm for your kennel? FYI I do have a pup coming off of him, but it'll be started by my partner not me.

And Eddie, he's won in all kinds of different terrain with different populations. There's only a few joysticks that have excelled in the elimination style hunts that I've seen. And as for his pups....time will tell but from everything I've been hearing on them they are gamey, and wild.

Thanks Eric! I had seen some pics of him winning but don't know anything really about him. I love all blueticks regardless of pedigree that win. Hopefully his pups will carry some of that go in them as well. Me personally will try any outcross with my females as long as they produce the traits that I desire in my hounds.

Posted by Vic Stoll on 01-31-2019 08:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Does anyone know how Silver Creek Rock is bred?

Joel & Jake Appel's Boom'in Jet x a Gauge/Utchman female

Posted by coonbone on 01-31-2019 09:22 PM:

Thanks Vic. I've heard Boomin Jet mentioned several times when people are talking about drive.

Posted by coonbone on 01-31-2019 09:22 PM:

Thanks Vic. I've heard Boomin Jet mentioned several times when people are talking about drive.

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