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You just told me sprinkles make up my mind lol. Jim and Richard like jelly donuts that coming from Sombody deep undercover.



🕵

I was wrong on how UKC decided it should be done. Do yall remember the debacle when they ruled if a coon was in a tree and a possum was in a hole in the same tree? They said if the dog was barking in the hole you scored him on the possum. They backed up and reversed that one and they should this one too.

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Joey maybe we need a phone number like the $$$ kc's have to call in the middle of the night when a dummy like me can't remember all this the could get it strait from the advisor then lol.



Tar

I don't agree with the answer and never will.
From the answers on here many other long time MOH's hold the same decision.
There will be those that now will try to get a free pass if their dog gets into some ones back yard and is found treeing
on an animal cage whether there is something in it or not.

Delete and move on. I don't think so.
What really takes precedence ?
Molesting off game or farm animals in a cage as opposed to the dogs not getting their just rewards for doing so.
The integrity of allowing a dog to get away with this behavior with out penalty is just plain wrong.

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

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The odds of any cast ever having to address this situation (scoring an empty live trap) are so remote that it isnt really worth wasting 10 seconds on but here we are, on page 4. In today's world, most hunts are only one cast hunts so it really dont much matter how they score it long as they all are ok with it.

Tar, you spend too much time worrying about rules you are unlikely ever to use anyway. I mean if you are anywhere close to my age, the odds of you ever seeing this situation come up on an actual hunt are so astronomical that it isnt worth even thinking about.

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Your right Jim but that's not the point. As far as waisted time isn't that what we are doing here anyway?

Not scoring a coon because it's not fair chase makes perfectly good sense. Deleting the same trap that is obviously empty does not. There is no fair chase issue with a empty trap, just a dog that was meseed with a caged coon to much and needs minus on a night hunt.

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PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Ain't much life left in this ole horse, but if you got the time and still have some distaste for the creature, mise well keep beating the poor beast

I always thought that the dog that treed the most coons was supposed to win? Why are so many people always looking for a way to minus the other dogs so that they can win?

If I ever see it in a hunt, I hope the handler has a brain like his dogs and takes the whole 8 to shine and give mine time to go an tree the honey-bun bandit!!

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Deleting a dog barking at nothing in a trap is no difference in circle or plussing a slick tree !

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Delete

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I always thought that the dog that treed the most coons was supposed to win? Why are so many people always looking for a way to minus the other dogs so that they can win?

---

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
The odds of any cast ever having to address this situation (scoring an empty live trap) are so remote that it isnt really worth wasting 10 seconds on but here we are, on page 4. In today's world, most hunts are only one cast hunts so it really dont much matter how they score it long as they all are ok with it.

Tar, you spend too much time worrying about rules you are unlikely ever to use anyway. I mean if you are anywhere close to my age, the odds of you ever seeing this situation come up on an actual hunt are so astronomical that it isnt worth even thinking about.

---

Off the top of my head, I don't recall specifically why we came up with delete regardless of a scent rag or nothing at all. Must have been something included in the whole discussion back then.

Seems like the other archived article had to do with a pet coon in a pen behind a barn. I'd say probably close to ten or more years ago?

My first thought was like most, and minus when it was empty. But knew we already had something in the archives and it's pretty clear that we said to delete regardless, so, nothing has changed since then.

Should it be? Possibly, but it would likely be a good idea to consider all possibilities before forming a premature opinion. Like I said, there had to be a reason/consideration for deleting even when there was nothing in it.

And really, this next to never happens so we should probably be expending our time and energy on more common matters that do need attention.

advisor

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
That's one with reference to live/box traps. Thinking there might be another buried in the archives.

---

Allen look at it from my point of view as an old guy anything you are confident enough to call your dog on you should be willing to face the consequences of your dog not having its intended quarry and being minused even in a 1 gallon pinto bean can empty is empty!



But then on the other hand as a moh something like this comes up that your gut says ain't right that Sombody has dug up from the archives you have never heard of and it puts you on the spot I know I am not the only old guy on here that has ran hunts and competed in hunts and never had a problem just useing the rule book or card not being negative but it sometimes is overwhelming.


Or am I just over thinking things again ?

Team player tar.

Re: advisor

quote:

---

Originally posted by akso235
So if Allen cant remember without researching it... how is someone in the woods that has never seen an Advisor and only has a scorecard and rule book supposed to know these different rulings that take precedent over the rules.

---

__________________
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When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Hey it just came to me !! Problem solved !!all I got to do is call Jennifer she is always more than happy to tell me when I am wrong lol





For sure team player !!

Tar

Fences, holes, colverts, feeders, light poles, any other object whether on the ground or in the air other than a live trap or coon cage ect ect dogs have the ability to gain points if a coon is seen therefore the ability to minus if one is not or circle if one could be there. Cheyenne pointed out that he believes the intent was that if there is no way to gain points (plus) there is nothing to take minus from, you can't minus if there was no ability to gain in the first place, to eliminate any foul play or plussing someone's pet coon hence why the situation at hand UKC had made the decision to delete and move on.
Jen

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"TEAM MAFIA"
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Jen

Absolutely the best explanation of this ruling. Could not be better explained. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Jen

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Absolutely the best explanation of this ruling. Could not be better explained. Dave

---

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Off the top of my head, I don't recall specifically why we came up with delete regardless of a scent rag or nothing at all. Must have been something included in the whole discussion back then.

Seems like the other archived article had to do with a pet coon in a pen behind a barn. I'd say probably close to ten or more years ago?

My first thought was like most, and minus when it was empty. But knew we already had something in the archives and it's pretty clear that we said to delete regardless, so, nothing has changed since then.

Should it be? Possibly, but it would likely be a good idea to consider all possibilities before forming a premature opinion. Like I said, there had to be a reason/consideration for deleting even when there was nothing in it.

And really, this next to never happens so we should probably be expending our time and energy on more common matters that do need attention.

---

Great, it's not in the rule book but we should know UKC'S view on this matter. Thank's

__________________
John Haun