UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Coffee Shop Philosophy (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=446289)

If she is available I would give it a shot. Especially if she came from 1 of your litters. Who should care more if she makes it than YOU

__________________
if its there eventually it will look

Mark Warner

"HOME OF PREDAWN KENNELS"

http://www.tekonshathunder.homestead.com

I believe I would try it... You should have fairly good luck! I think the ole saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks should be buried as the you can't pet a hound line was... All my dogs have basic obedience, a few of my pet peeves are a dog that won't heel and one that jumps up placing both feet on u as its being praised... I always train my dogs this if its A fresh new pup or a 7 year old... Granted the learning has to be stern and consistent with an older dog but 3 years isn't that old hopefully it isn't a fourth of the way through its life... But for example you learn something new everyday and that didn't cease when you graduated it still carries on to this day... I don't start training for the woods till fall conditions and closest to the hounds 1st birthday for example my litter I have now will be about 12 or 13 months old before they start learning the in's and out's of hunting a litter born in June or July may be closer to 18 months before they hold up their first tree and honestly that's perfect for me that extra little time has gotten all the puppy outta them jmo but I think a lot of the dogs that didn't make it shoulda been trained obedience around the time they were seeing their first cage coon not saying I don't cull a few but I feel that a lot of mine woulda never made "coondogs" at 6 months

__________________
{I Hunt For The Sound Of The Hound, Not The Thrill Of The Kill!!}

Is 3 too old

With coon dogs, the most important thing we do is put dogs in position to allow their genetics to express themselves. Providing a dog hasn't been ruined by mishandling, I don't see why their genetics would be any different at 6 months or three years. If you can make that dog want to catch a coon, its genetic predisposition should express itself. And, knowing the owner of that dog you are talking about, he will provide it with the right opportunity.

Is 3 too old

With coon dogs, the most important thing we do is put dogs in position to allow their genetics to express themselves. Providing a dog hasn't been ruined by mishandling, I don't see why their genetics would be any different at 6 months or three years. If you can make that dog want to catch a coon, its genetic predisposition should express itself. And, knowing the owner of that dog you are talking about, he will provide it with the right opportunity.

*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***


I'm sure the genetics are the same at 6 weeks also... You say 3 years is too old but how/why

__________________
{I Hunt For The Sound Of The Hound, Not The Thrill Of The Kill!!}

I currently just bought a 3 yr old Gyp myself that needs a lot of work. I know her previous owner and her history well. She was never what I call properly trained or given a fair shake in my book. The previous owner just turned her loose and let her run basically. She has treed a possum or etc also. What's got me excited about her is she has by far got the loudest mouth I've ever heard. After getting her I let her just run loose in the yard with my male just being a dog for a few days. I hunted one night before I came to work for a month. First half of the hunt she did as expected and bumped around on a track but didn't finish. Second half of hunt I turned back in with my male who was already opening and she headed right in, opened up, and settled in bout 5 or 10 yards off tree. She stayed put and treed but not real hard. So while I'm gone this month she's just been running loose in the yard with my male and my son is working with her on tone'n in and has been laying drags with a hide for her in the yard. So far she runs them and trees with my male on them. Hopefully by the time I'm home she realizes what's going on and will do it in the woods. Even if she never really makes a sure enough hound by herself and just packs well and don't trash I'll be satisfied. Her mouth is so loud it's just a pleasure to hear! I really think she's going turn out right though! Just needs a chance.

I agree with all of you... with regards to genetics and giving them time to show themselves. I think her biggest hurdle will be the lack of socialization for her first three years. She comes from a line that can be timid, and keeping her on the chain, certainly won't help that trait.

In speaking with the guy that owns her, I believe he'll give her as good an opportunity as anyone would, regardless of her age. So time will tell.

I'll keep you guys posted...

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

David u mentioned the chain... I've noticed it effects dogs differently are you totally against using one or do u think its how each dog is introduced to that form of "kenneling"?

__________________
{I Hunt For The Sound Of The Hound, Not The Thrill Of The Kill!!}

It's just a figure of speech... I don't know if she was kept in a kennel, or literally on a chain. What I meant was she wasn't spending her time in the woods.

I'm not opposed to a chain, although I use kennels.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

this is my idea on the one single thing that could improve turn out at the hunts is to give out one more place then the number of cast entered up to 10 cast ! when they changed the rule making 2nd in a cast worth nothing they hurt the hunts ! back in the day a small club would draw 40 dogs for example that would be 10-4 dog cast and 2 or 3 cast would be dead or not make deadline freeing up a couple of the 10 places allowing a coondog (plus points) to place this allowed a guy to brag a little no I didn't win my cast but my dog beat 32 other dogs ! I get why they changed the rule on ten places 8 dogs showed up last night for 10 places but to say only 2 should place has hurt our sport this would be a easy change and should be pushed for the next rule change session ! opinions ?

*** Please read first post, prior to posting a reply.***

I don't know... I see your point in having a high score, but just not beating the top dog in your cast, yet better potentially than the other cast winners. BUT, what if you draw a really great hound and you have a great me-too dog. The top dog scores really high,, and along with him/her the very good me-too dog. Does that deserve a place???

And are you suggesting the cast winners fill the top spots first, and then to the non-cast winners? That's the only way it would possibly be fair, in that you can't fault a cast winner for not being put in coon, or drawing a tough second place dog.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

I think 1st through 10th place should awarded according to the scores regardless of cast. I don't like that each place comes from a different cast. I understand the reasoning behind it but sometimes your rewarding the hounds. Of course there's always the factor of where cast hunts, some being better than others. Idk

easy to solve 8 dogs show up that's 2 casts a 1st and 2nd my rule change would work like this 2 cast winners 1st and 2nd 3rd would be next non cast winner by the points example 2 2 cast come in 1 misses dead line only 2 places given. same would go all the way to 10 places 8 cast hunt 5 have cast have plus points 6 places given depending number of cast lets face it you have 40 dogs show up 9 cast come in dead or miss deadline or minus out the next best non cast winner with plus points deserves something that's 38 dogs he just made look bad per the rules and it would encourage people to come back at least they have a chance we need to become a sport of inclusion instead of exclusion I believe this one change would increase attendance at small hunts

quote:

---

Originally posted by groworg1
easy to solve 8 dogs show up that's 2 casts a 1st and 2nd my rule change would work like this 2 cast winners 1st and 2nd 3rd would be next non cast winner by the points example 2 2 cast come in 1 misses dead line only 2 places given. same would go all the way to 10 places 8 cast hunt 5 have cast have plus points 6 places given depending number of cast lets face it you have 40 dogs show up 9 cast come in dead or miss deadline or minus out the next best non cast winner with plus points deserves something that's 38 dogs he just made look bad per the rules and it would encourage people to come back at least they have a chance we need to become a sport of inclusion instead of exclusion I believe this one change would increase attendance at small hunts

---

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Marshall IL, Family Restuarant

Yes, the coffee shop is still alive and well. Marshall IL. Family Restuarant. The coonhunters meet every day, even on Sunday, from about 9AM untill noon. It's a good time.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

joe 10 dogs show up all hunt registered class that's 3 cast my change there would be up to 4 places given if all cast had plus points ! as for comments about watered down titles that's a totally different subject that could be fixed easily ! but my goal is to increase hunt attendance that's all if any of you have a better idea lets hear it !

number of cast

JMO i think the amount of people at the hunts droped when they changed the placements, when it was cast winners first then next highest score up to 10 places you had more dogs in the hunts,
back in the 70's the Marcellus Mi. club drew 100 or more dogs at all there hunts, now you are lucky to get 3 cast of Reg. dogs, and they gave awards not just a slip, and that is how the people put there points on there dog towards NTCH. is by placing them say 10th place.
you look at it this way, it cost 20.00 to inter your dog, it cost 50.00 to fill your truck with gas if you live close enough that one tank will get you there and back, then you spend 20.00 to eat, that right at almost 100.00 dollars most people can not aford that .
if it went back to the way it use to be would we get a biger turn out ???????? i think it woul be worth a try to see if we would.

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

The only reason the hunts are down are because of the number of hunts. If there were only 10 hunts per year within 2 hours instead of 100, we would see the big draws again.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Here in Mississippi a lot and I mean the majority of the hunters work off-shore, river boat, or the like. So trying to schedule 7 hunts and year when the majority are home is a chore in it self. Then limiting the dates to only Friday and Saturday nights adds more complications. After all that, when we as a club decide on dates, half the time the dates are already taken. Very frustrating indeed.
So what we did was start having hunts from another KC as well. Their pretty much all scheduled during the week nights. This other KC has been very good with working with us on dates etc. Normally on a UKC hunt we have 3 or 4 cast. With the other KC hunts during the week we have 2 or 3 cast. But their popularity is picking up. And the entry fee is decided by our club, so they can be as reasonable or expensive as we want them.
Wish UKC would offer week night hunts myself. Idk

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
The only reason the hunts are down are because of the number of hunts. If there were only 10 hunts per year within 2 hours instead of 100, we would see the big draws again.

---

__________________
Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


gone but will never be forgotten

PR Van Dusen's Hanna o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Maggie o/h
NTCH PR Buck Brush Little Mickey o/h
PR Buck Brush Copper o/h
D NTCH PR Crooked Oak Boss o/h
D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h

its not the old system unless 40 dogs show up and 9 cast come in with plus points its only the placement of one dog per hunt to encourage guys to show up for a chance at one place per hunt and points towards ntch they still need that first to make ntch they could earn some points which in turn would keep them coming back hoping for that 1st the system now is win or nothing and discourages guys from coming back I can think of more than a dozen coonhunters within 12 miles that's a fact yet local hunt draws 6 or 8 with only 1 or 2 of these guys that live within the 12 miles of me a couple years back a local guy tried to start up hunting/trapping supply store he put on a big coon contest and had 34 dogs entered we now have another dog supply shop called the hound hunter and he will be having a big coon contest on nov 1st and we will see how many enter I think he said 7 already and the local ads haven't hit yet I will update as I get more numbers

Great thread

When you talk of coon hunter's cafes and coffee shops my thoughts immediately go to the used car lot on the corner of Valley Drive and Prince Streets in Beckley, West Virginia in the early 70's. The lot was owned by the local Pontiac dealer, Raleigh Motor Sales and was operated by coon hunter Cliff Tolbert.

Cliff's office consisted of two rooms. One contained his desk and file cabinets. The walls of the outer room were lined with seats taken from school buses and it was there that a daily crowd of coon hunters sat and talked, beginning at about 10 AM and continuing through and sometimes after lunch. I was in sales in those days and had the time to stop in almost every day. Most of the members of what my friend Howard Meadows and I called "The Liar's Corner," including Howard, have died but the memories of that place will be with me for a lifetime. Should there be any coon hunters from that area and of that era around, you will well remember Cliff, Bob Bolen, Adrian and Kenneth Harper, Lacy and Virgil Adkins, Bill Booth, the barber John Bolen, Dickie Todd, Billy Vaughn, and a host of others.

Cliff would only grant access to the inner office to guys that he happened to be hunting with or who would brag on his old black and white Walker dog, Bruce. On one occasion, he even offered a pickle from his lunch to one of the guys that had said something positive about Old Bruce. From then on, guys would think of something good to say about Bruce and ask Cliff, "Where's my pickle?"

One day, Cliff was telling of a hunt the night before in which there was a deer race. My buddy Howard, who was old enough to be my dad, was a WWII prisoner of war and had been seriously crippled in a coal mining accident but would still hunt those rough mountains all night, asked “Did Old Brucie run it?” Cliff came roaring out of his office waving his cane in the air, red-faced and we were all sure there was going to be a killing. We all fell out on the floor laughing and Cliff retreated to his office and slammed the door.

Another character in that ample cast of characters was Bob Bolen. Bob had an old red dog named Tom. Bob was sold out to the color red, driving a ¾ ton International 4x4 pained bright red to support his breed. Old Tom would tree a coon but absolutely had to be walked over the track and in those mountains and strip jobs that was a lot of walking. Every morning Bob would come sliding in around 10 o’clock waiting for someone to ask him about the previous night’s hunt. Bob would slide into the school bus seat beside someone, grab them by the knee and whisper in their ear, holding up the third, fourth and fifth fingers of his hand and forming the “OK” with the index finger and thumb as he did so, “Honey, I treed three big ones last night.” I doubt Old Tom had treed three coon in his life. One time Bob told me, “Honey, I found a place last night up a big deep holler where the coon $%#t was literally dripping off the limbs.”

I’ll never forget the Liar’s Corner and its cast of characters. Thanks for rekindling the memories.

__________________
“ I know in my heart that man is good, that what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life. " - Ronald Reagan

Steve

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the above post speaking of awarding " places " in hunts. I know you recently talked about more is not always better in an article, which was very insightful! What's your thoughts on week night hunts?
Also you article on hunting in " daylight " sure came at a good time for me. Last month before I came back to work I had decided to try my luck on some early am hunts due to coon movement. Lo-and-behold once I got on the boat and read your article it lightened my day!

Joseph, you've heard the old saying, "you can't go back." In the day when championship points were awarded to dogs within the cast that weren't cast winners, unfortunately many conversations at the beginning of the hunt went this way:

"Boys, I need a first on old Blue. What do the rest of you need?" The outcome of the cast was adjusted accordingly. Everyone cried about cheap Nite Champions and the "cast win" rule was established. Things have gone full circle now with so few entries and folks are uttering the same cry again.

While there may be too many hunts, yes there are too many hunts, the problem is in the number of coon hunters available to enter those hunts. It's like Social Security. When Roosevelt sold the plan families were large with lots of kids to grow up and pay into the fund. Each of my parents were from families of nine kids. Today, many young couples aren't having kids at all or if at all, one or two. Therefore, the numbers of folks working and paying into SS is not meeting the expectation.

It's like that with coon hunting. When I was a young man it was nothing to go to a 100-dog hunt. I won my first trophy at the Southeastern Ohio Championship with 106 dogs entered. RQE's regularly had 12 to 15 events with more than 100 dogs in the 80's and early 90's.

Everything goes in circles. It appears if more youngsters don't enter the sport and subsequently, the local hunts, in time all those hunts will be in HTX format whether we want it that way or not.

__________________
“ I know in my heart that man is good, that what is right will always eventually triumph, and there is purpose and worth to each and every life. " - Ronald Reagan

As bad as I hate to admit it very rarely do I go hunt at my neighboring clubs unless it's a breed or RQE etc. To me the cost of gas, food, & entry fees combined with having to be away from my family for half a day & night out way my desire to travel for a comp hunt. And to be totally honest I actually enjoy the comp hunts about 50% of the time. It's extremely hard for me to go spend money, and risk me coming home aggravated when I can turn hounds loose 200 yards from my porch. Maybe all that's due to having a extremely stressful job and work a month on and a month off. Coon hunting is my therapy so to speak so it's very dishearten to leave a comp feeling that way. Maybe I'm just not enough of a " comp hunter " idk