UKC Forums - Lets talk some breeding

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Posted by mboyce on 02-24-2013 04:51 PM:

yellow river

I just got a yellow river bred gyp a week ago and took her out last nite we treed 2coon, like her alot so far,1st redbone I ever had,looking foward to the next hunt..marcus

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Posted by Nate Ratcliff on 02-24-2013 07:08 PM:

SAWBLADE
The rusty and candy cross was a super cross we keep 5 out of it all of witch turned out to be good coondogs.One male being a super dog.At 5 mo he out struck and treed ahead of the old dogs.This was his first time out a real freak of nature.
unfort he was killed at an young age of 13 mo.We currently have a male and two females one being bell she won the pup derby at nationals on thurs, fri got beat in tie breaker,sat won her cast for 4th place on sat, the other one is called brandy she won the youth on thur,and has a couple 2nds on her,the male is called ace he has only been in few hunts due to a heart condition wont be in yery many was put in 2 shows winning best of show best of breed and best in class at both.Then there is a female in mo that has a 1st and 2nd on her.Iwould like to see this male breed to something off pistol and hope or straight to pebble.Would probly be a nice cross.

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Posted by Preston Owens on 02-26-2013 12:32 AM:

Article page 116 and 117 NRCA book 1981-82

submitted by Dow Hale:

........................Inbreeding
..........Dr. R.A. Guill geneticist

I think there is somewhat of a misconception about inbreeding and/ or linebreeding. Inbreeding is the breeding of two individuals more closely related than the average inbreeding of the population from which these two individuals were taken, Linebreeding is a mild form of inbreeding usually where one individual keeps showing up on one side of the pedigree.
I have read advertisements where people say they have bred granddaughter to a grandson of old so-and-so and the pups will have 50% of his blood. These pups infact would only be slightly over 3% inbred. Inbreeding is expressed as Inbreeding coefficents which are calculated by the formula Fx=(1/2)n-1(1Fa). These coefficients are only statistical values acquired by the number of generations the animal in question is removed from its common ancestor. These coeffients are theoretical values assuming every gene on every chromosome has equally 1/2 chance being passed on to the next generation.
When practicing an inbreeding program one should look very closely at the individuals used.For example,when breeding half brother to half sister,these two individuals should be very much like the common ancestor from which they got their outstanding characteristics.If one was like its dam and the other one is like its sire there is no need to inbreed these two individuals because you are not concentrating on the genes of one individual. Father to daughter,and son to dam are also methods of inbreeding.Here again,only breed a sire to his daughter if that daughter is very much like her sire and the same for son to dam.There would be no need to breed a son to his dam if the son was like his sire,you would not be accumulating the desirable genes of the dam which is the purpose of inbreeding. I would not advise Full Brother -Sister matings because you do not know which common ancestor you are accumulating the traits from the grandam or grandsire.
The following list shows some of the inbreeding coefficients of certain crosses: (assuming none of the ancestors are inbred)
1.Sire X Daughter .25
2.Son X Dam .25
3. Full Brother X full Sister .25 (.125 from each grandparent)
4.half brother X Half Sister .125
5.Sire x grandam .125
6. sire X granddaughter .125
7.nephew X Aunt .0625
8. Niece X Uncle .0625
9.Double first cousins .0625 (.0156 from each great grand parent)
10. first cousins .03125 (.0156 from two great grandparents)

I also think people are confusing open and silent trailing ability, which doesnt have anything to do with inbreeding other than the fact that you can increase or decrease this trait by inbreeding.Most dogs of the hound variety, can smell about the same,the difference is not in the nose of the dog but the excitability threshold. How much scent does it take to excite that individual before it will bark. This is the trait we are breeding for. The same type inheritance is involved in treeing. It is controlled by multiple genetic factors. A dog isnt either open or silent nor will he bark treed or wont bark treed! It just isnt that simple,there are multigenetic factors involved in these traits and we use the treeing because by in large those dogs that are real hard hunters,good strike dogs and trail dogs are not as good on the tree.Where as the the real good tree dogs are not quite as good on hustle,strike,and trail.We are beginning to break up these linkage groups because we are breeding lines of dogs that are better in striking,trailing,and treeing.
The reason it is difficult to get everything in one individual is because of the number of traits we are selecting for.Suppose we are selecting for tree barking,tree locating, tree holding (all of which are different) Hustle,quick strike,ability to move a track once struck,voice,right amount of voice depending on type of track,handling ability,conformation,color. This would put eleven where N is in the formula,that is if we give each trait the same weight on selection. Therefore X would equal .3, or we would expect this much progress in our breeding program if we had all these traits in our breeding stock. We dont make this much progress each generation,but we are making such faster advancements than in the past. One important Fact we cannot overlook,is the difference in the way people are handling and training these dogs. genetic makeup is only 50% and environment plays the other 50% of what each hound makes. So to have an outstanding hound,you must have one that has the genetic makeup to be outstanding, then the rest is left up to the trainer.

I thought this article was very well written and thought Id share it with all of yall. Ive read it countless times over the years to remind me how important the SELECTION process is. I hope yall enjoy it

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Posted by tylerman on 02-27-2013 03:36 PM:

Seems pretty simple but it doesnt always work or makes a better product, makes me think there is still more than we will ever know involved.

I like what an old man told me about crosses, being to look for females in a pedigree that everyone have produced.But it better be better, and better each gen or you are making crosses not progress and he felt most were doing just this.The product of the male is also very important but if his mother and grandmothers didnt produce greater...well

He talked of sire on one side to grandfather on other,or grandfather twice on other side.Or 1 gen farther,grandfather on 1 side to great grandfather(or grandfather twice) on other.

He felt the female to be more important or as important.So the peds with a female repo of as good or preferably better with a ped full of female producers along with the right males in place as above..where far and few between and felt most didnt have it or know it if they did to keep it going or how.Let alone make it progress to a new and much higher level.

This thread is very confusing to me but still very informational.

Hard to keep it simple when it can be this complex.

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Posted by Mark Zepp on 02-27-2013 04:27 PM:

Dave –

“This thread is very confusing to me…”

I have a degree in Biology and started a Masters in Reproductive Physiology and spent my younger life around some of the greatest minds in the beef cattle industry…

I look at all of this stuff and it still makes my head hurt and realize that I don’t know a darn thing at all.

Sometimes I think that if the multimillionaires in the horse and cattle industry can’t breed a KY Derby Winner or Western Stockman Winner on a consistent basis how are we going to do it?

I’ve bred a few good females and knew darn near everything and every dog going back several generations on both sides of their pedigrees and was positive I was going to have several world beaters in the group… in the end, all I had was a half dozen empty shells.

The last one I bred, I knew very little to nothing about the dogs in their pedigrees, only that the both parents were above average and several of them are going to make nice dogs….go figure

When you have all of the answers, call me!

Good Hunting!!

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Posted by Bobby Stevens on 02-27-2013 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Zepp
Dave –

“This thread is very confusing to me…”

I have a degree in Biology and started a Masters in Reproductive Physiology and spent my younger life around some of the greatest minds in the beef cattle industry…

I look at all of this stuff and it still makes my head hurt and realize that I don’t know a darn thing at all.

Sometimes I think that if the multimillionaires in the horse and cattle industry can’t breed a KY Derby Winner or Western Stockman Winner on a consistent basis how are we going to do it?

I’ve bred a few good females and knew darn near everything and every dog going back several generations on both sides of their pedigrees and was positive I was going to have several world beaters in the group… in the end, all I had was a half dozen empty shells.

The last one I bred, I knew very little to nothing about the dogs in their pedigrees, only that the both parents were above average and several of them are going to make nice dogs….go figure

When you have all of the answers, call me!

Good Hunting!!

i like this post being from the sticks i know nothing nor am i very educated but i do seem to recall all old timers saying this about females you could breed her to a collie and she would throw good pups i never heard it said the other way around have any of you??

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-27-2013 07:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RedScorpion
These ideas certainly aren't as sexy as the inbreeding calculator, but closer to reality in my opinion. I agree with Mr. Zepp.

Has anyone in the redbone breed or any other breed ever bred using the method mrg talked about to bracket the right dogs?
I know he can go back and find instances where the dogs lined up according to this method and it worked....but were the breeders using this template, or was it just a coincidence? I don't think this theory has really been tested enough in this breed to completely discount it. I think it definitely warrants further study and testing. It will be time consuming because it involves several generations of dogs being used and that means several years to prove....its very interesting.

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Posted by RON WOLTER on 02-27-2013 09:05 PM:

What r we breeding for is the big question
If we have an average coonhound female but
but she has a ped. with all gr.nt ch in it, now
would u breed her to a gr. nt. male just hoping that she has pups better than she is
swinging off her ansisters ability =??
I Would bet the answer is yes, & would bet
that you would get ONE -out of that litter
that would be above average, now how could u line this average female up with an above average male & think u are going to
have above average pups, a biger chance
is you wont get but one, Now there is a big flaw already in these pups, BUT DOSENT THE PAPERS LOOK EX GOOD THOUGH & THAT MY FRENDS IS A BIG ((( PART ))) when crosses r made /// WE have to go for , if you want a squall mouth track breed to a squall mouth track male , same on locate , same on ,
tree , same on anything the female has , line it up with the same trates that they both have
not hoping that you r going to swing off the other mates ability// I see that we love looking at an al gr.nt paper & thats a big reason these reds are in a snales pace to
to get ahead , dont be afrade to breed to an (((above average))) PR dog NOT always
a gr. nt is your answer for a super cross
maby the guy that has the PR red hates
night hunts but has an above average red
J.M.O. -55 YRS WITH REDS & STILL LERNING

-_-Redcoat-_-

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Redcoat

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-27-2013 09:09 PM:

I agree redscorpion,
When you concentrate a bloodline...you will concentrate the good and the bad. I don't sell pups so it is no loss to me to cull a pup that has a genetic defect. Some people breed for a better redbone, and others breed for a big payday. Would those doing it for the money cull a $500 or $1000 bill.....only they can answer that question.
I understand what you mean about selection....I was just talking to mmarshall the other day about my concern that people may see this method as a way to get a superdog from mediocre dogs just because they bracket them in the right way.....and that kind of thinking would be a mistake in my opinion.
Where I see the value in exploring this theory further is in this sense....
Lets say you have a super good dog and he is linebred but not what would be described as prepotent or a dominant reproducer. You have bred this dog quite a bit and lets say he has 500 pups on the ground. Now lets say he has several gr.nt.ch's and 20 or so nt.ch.'s which puts him high on the reproducers list...but by % his reproducing of truly great dogs is pretty low. So you look back over all those crosses that produced those 500 pups and you can't really see a pattern as to why a few of those crosses seemed to be great....while many more just flat did not work. Now keep in mind....the stud is a top dog...full of natural potential and he is from an excellent cross....but he just doesn't seem to be a dominant reproducer of pups that carry that same ability. So lets say this dog dies and no pups are produced by him for several years....until some semen surfaces on him that has been in storage for many years. Now the guy that owns that semen knew that stud dog very well and the dogs he was out of and he had a different plan. His plan was to take that semen and use it in heavy linebred females that go back to this same male to concentrate those traits and the natural ability of that male even more in hopes of creating some pups that would be very close to that male in traits and ability but with one big difference.....whereas the male was not prepotent...some of these pups would be and they would be used in a breeding program that would place them in the right spot in this bracket we have been talking about to produce litters that would contain even more prepotent pups with the same traits and ability.
If I understand this theory correctly....this would be a possible outcome if the theory actually worked. The program I am part of has many of the pieces already lined up because the breeders before me were already in the process of concentrating this particular bloodline. They knew they were making progress...but were not always getting the bracketing right. I think we might just put this theory to the test and try it since we have several dogs that fit the criteria and see if we can't make a supercross that we were able to predict ahead of time....make happen..... and then repeat more than once.
I don't know of anyone in any other breed who is trying to test this theory...who knows...maybe we are on to something

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-27-2013 09:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RON WOLTER
What r we breeding for is the big question
If we have an average coonhound female but
but she has a ped. with all gr.nt ch in it, now
would u breed her to a gr. nt. male just hoping that she has pups better than she is
swinging off her ansisters ability =??
I Would bet the answer is yes, & would bet
that you would get ONE -out of that litter
that would be above average, now how could u line this average female up with an above average male & think u are going to
have above average pups, a biger chance
is you wont get but one, Now there is a big flaw already in these pups, BUT DOSENT THE PAPERS LOOK EX GOOD THOUGH & THAT MY FRENDS IS A BIG ((( PART ))) when crosses r made /// WE have to go for , if you want a squall mouth track breed to a squall mouth track male , same on locate , same on ,
tree , same on anything the female has , line it up with the same trates that they both have
not hoping that you r going to swing off the other mates ability// I see that we love looking at an al gr.nt paper & thats a big reason these reds are in a snales pace to
to get ahead , dont be afrade to breed to an (((above average))) PR dog NOT always
a gr. nt is your answer for a super cross
maby the guy that has the PR red hates
night hunts but has an above average red
J.M.O. -55 YRS WITH REDS & STILL LERNING

-_-Redcoat-_-

Ron,
There are very few "all grand nite" crosses being made in the redbone breed at this time because while there are several males who can produce one...there are very, very few females that can. I guess I have to ask...why do you assume that there are alot of gr.nt.ch. redbone females out there who are below average? I am a big believer in proving my dogs before they are bred. I don't breed dogs just because they have a nice looking set of papers behind them. Every gr.nt.ch. redbone I have or have hunted for any length of time was worthy of the title it carried. I cannot say about other gr.nt.ch. redbones I have only hunted with once or twice in a hunt or while out pleasure hunting with them. But if a man hunts with a dog for a few weeks or longer....you can tell if it is worthy of its title.
How many of these dogs in these all gr.nt.ch. pedigrees have you hunted with for you to form the opinion that they were just average or below average dogs? I know a gr.nt.ch. title does not ensure that the dog who holds it is truly that caliber of dog on most nights....but to act like most who have earned that title are not really worthy of it would be a big mistake dont you think?
Most people put in alot of time and effort to compete with their dog to earn that degree and to people like me who know that it isn't a cakewalk to make a dog gr.nt.ch.......it seems a little bit condescending.
I cant speak for everyone else who is making all grand type crosses....but my dogs are proven winners and that fact can be backed up by hundreds of other handlers who have competed against them. I know you didn't say any names, but there are less than a handful of breeders out there making "all grand" crosses and I know most of them and have hunted with many of the dogs in those pedigrees, as have many, other handlers on their way to making gr.nt.ch......so I am just puzzled why you think these crosses are full of average or below average dogs....

Posted by Preston Owens on 02-27-2013 11:51 PM:

Mike

quote:
Originally posted by mrg
good article, enjoyed it
please let me say this about the calculator,,, you must make SURE you have the correct spelling of each dog in the ped . in other words if you have a dog with the name MAGGIE,,and in one place in the ped you spell it MAGGIE and in another place you spell it MAGGY,,, then the results would be tainted,,,,one letter can throw it completely out. also,,, you must scan the pedigree and find out the coeifficient of any animals in the ped and place them in the [known coefficient of inbreeding] slot or it will be incorrect once again.
the amount of coeifficient one wants to achieve is left up to the individual and how strong the SELECTION process has taken place. this is a valuable tool but not the [ be all end all ] one may say. SELECTON is a must or you are simply building an attractive pedigree.

I agree totally, thats why I posted that article, I think teamwork,a plan,and lots of walking will prove or disprove the linebreeding/inbreeding. I honestly think its the right method to concentrate and help to build a prepotent "animal" I think what I take from all this is the very clear point on SELECTION. The hounds should improve with every generation IF you line/inbreed the hounds with the same traits.. As Ive stated b4 tho it would be ALOT easier if litters were just 1 or 2 pups. when you get 4 to 12 off each cross its tough to really "Know" you have the best one from the cross,or what if the one you needed didnt get the "hunt time"? So many variables to deal with. I agree with some of the guys saying that with every cross you "lock in" good but also "bad" traits.. Thats why its hard to "Know" whats gonna work and what isnt...

I wish we knew why a dog (male or female) that was a below average coondog can sometimes be a really good reproducer. thats more of a puzzle to me than the IC that I dont understand.lol All i can say is so long as I am happy with whats on my lead strap im gonna continue to try to improve my biscuit eaters...

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Posted by RON WOLTER on 02-28-2013 02:27 AM:

Shane = I am not saying a breeder like u would make a cross like that, you know or hunted with a big bunch of th moonlite
males & females & when u cross on top & bot. on that line i would say you pritty much know that half of that litter of say 8 pups would come out like the parents ,or grand parents , or great grand parents, because you know or hunted with the 3 gen.
in your new cross you r to make, you r a lucky guy to have that much time to have put into hunting with all these ansesters & to be able to match them up when you r making a cross on this line.
What i am saying is,There are guys that have a average non titled female coonhound out of say 3 gen. ped. with all nt. ch & gr. nt ch.that would bread to a above average gr. nt male & think the pups will come out like her ansesters, or swing off his ped. & i am saying this is throwing a big chance litter
you could maby get one above average pup out of a cross like this , i see on papers crosses made like this, i call them chance crosses, thats not a mached cross at all
am i as clear as mud or u know what i mean

---Redcoat---

__________________
Ron Wolter
Redcoat

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-28-2013 02:55 AM:

Ok...I see what you mean Ron.
That's why no matter how good a dogs pedigree looks...I won't breed that dog until it has proven itself to be as good as the dogs who produced it.....hopefully better. I do see a few people out there that are taking dogs with great pedigrees and without proving them first...they are, like you say...breeding to a good titled stud and hoping that he will carry the whole litter. I think every dog worthy of producing a litter should have to prove itself a coondog before it is allowed to produce pups and if the buyers of pups would demand this before they will buy a pup...the breed would be better for it.....Shane

Posted by Butterbean26 on 02-28-2013 03:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
Ok...I see what you mean Ron.
That's why no matter how good a dogs pedigree looks...I won't breed that dog until it has proven itself to be as good as the dogs who produced it.....hopefully better. I do see a few people out there that are taking dogs with great pedigrees and without proving them first...they are, like you say...breeding to a good titled stud and hoping that he will carry the whole litter. I think every dog worthy of producing a litter should have to prove itself a coondog before it is allowed to produce pups and if the buyers of pups would demand this before they will buy a pup...the breed would be better for it.....Shane

Great Post !!! There is a lot of truth in what what you are saying.

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Posted by Sawblade on 02-28-2013 01:32 PM:

Mike

Mike your going to make everyone an educated breeder if you keep this up . LOl

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Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

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Posted by Trinket clark on 02-28-2013 02:12 PM:

MRG,

Very good reading, keep it coming...Love it!

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~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

Posted by jbiggert on 02-28-2013 10:01 PM:

will be made soon.
.....................................................................gr.nt. ace
...........................................gr.nt. shock
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
.......... 3 wins nighty nite t
.....................................................................gr.nt. pepper
...........................................gr.nt. ann
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
.....PUPS....
...................................................................4 wins nt.ch. doc
............................................gr.nt. bo
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
..........4 wins nighty nite penny
.....................................................................gr.nt. pepper
............................................gr.nt.ann
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate

__________________
John Biggert

Males

1) Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red - (Semen) (Gr. Nt. Yellow River Rocky X Nt. Ch. Gr. F Grw. Maggie)

2) Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Red Cloud - 4 Years Old (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. To The Max X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

3) Nighty Nite T - (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight After Shock X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Females

1) Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann - 9 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Steps Little Pepper X Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate)

2) Gr. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red Sky - 3 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Outlaw Red Moon X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-28-2013 10:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jbiggert
will be made soon.
.....................................................................gr.nt. ace
...........................................gr.nt. shock
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
.......... 3 wins nighty nite t
.....................................................................gr.nt. pepper
...........................................gr.nt. ann
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
.....PUPS....
...................................................................4 wins nt.ch. doc
............................................gr.nt. bo
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate
..........4 wins nighty nite penny
.....................................................................gr.nt. pepper
............................................gr.nt.ann
.....................................................................gr.nt. kate

Nice John....very nice

Posted by jbiggert on 02-28-2013 10:16 PM:

sorry .what is the X-an Y factor on this please .i really dont know.
gen. persent.... i dont know how to do this. can you all help. will it be a good cross by gen.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-28-2013 10:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jbiggert
sorry .what is the X-an Y factor on this please .i really dont know.
gen. persent.... i dont know how to do this. can you all help. will it be a good cross by gen.

Nice cross crazy
21.875%
Pepper Ann12.5 %
Kate 9.375%

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-28-2013 10:36 PM:

John, why don't you show us what a cross between Jim Bob and Penny would look like and let us run some numbers on it

Posted by jbiggert on 02-28-2013 11:28 PM:

jimbob will be bred to his grand mother pepper ann soon.

.................................................................gr.nt. ace
..........................................gr.nt. shock
.................................................................gr.nt. kate
.......................nt.ch. jimbob
.................................................................gr.nt. max
.........................................gr.nt. amber
.................................................................gr.nt. ann
...........PUPS
..............................................................4 win nt.ch.doc
.......................................gr.nt. bo
.................................................................gr.nt. kate
................4wins nt.ch. penny
................................................................gr.nt. pepper
.......................................gr.nt. ann
................................................................gr.nt. kate

Posted by mmarshall on 03-01-2013 12:01 AM:

Crazy
Jimbob x Ann 18.75%
Ann12.5%
Kate6.25%

Jimbob x penny 14.0625%
Ann 6.25%
Kate 7.8125%

Posted by jbiggert on 03-01-2013 01:47 AM:

what dose that mean. is it good or is it bad. i dont get the %. what are people looking for in the gen %. what is the best. i can make all kind of good crosses but dont know what the best is by the gen %.grandmothers ,grandsirs , son ,..... ,what % needs to be the best. thanks john

Posted by Sawblade on 03-01-2013 01:57 AM:

I'm confused too

John ,it goofs me up some to but looking at the ped you put up I would have a tendency to probably bred Penny to Shock. But what do I know ????It all looks good man.

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