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-- Disappointed in the New Generation. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928527073)

Idea

Maybe before the hound gets the Title after he has proven he can do it in a crowd. Lets have him go alone with no feeders no help in a strange place and judged on his abilities on wild coon. Make the owner pay the cost of the test and the dog does not receive the title on his paperwork until he proves he is a coon dog straight up by himself...A true hound would flourish in this test. The other stuff we are all talking about would show their true colors real fast! Now that would be interesting to me to see what hounds passed this test and which ones could not tree a wild coon on their own...one trait that true hounds possess is consistency. They can do it alone, in a crowd, thick coon, thin coon....we all know what this hound looks like 90% of the time...

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Roy Jarman

Re: Idea

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan&Ann
Maybe before the hound gets the Title after he has proven he can do it in a crowd. Lets have him go alone with no feeders no help in a strange place and judged on his abilities on wild coon. Make the owner pay the cost of the test and the dog does not receive the title on his paperwork until he proves he is a coon dog straight up by himself...A true hound would flourish in this test. The other stuff we are all talking about would show their true colors real fast! Now that would be interesting to me to see what hounds passed this test and which ones could not tree a wild coon on their own...one trait that true hounds possess is consistency. They can do it alone, in a crowd, thick coon, thin coon....we all know what this hound looks like 90% of the time...

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Isn't a "title" for a competition hound. It has nothing to do with how they do or don't do by themselves. They have a title for pleasure dogs. It is called an HTX title and has nothing to do with a comp title.

Today's dogs

I just see so many complaints about all these dogs and how sorry they are and thinking out loud how to better the breed. I guess we all differ on what a true coon dog is...We all feed what we choose to feed and cull what we choose to cull. I just think that 10 circle trees and one coon in a night is a joke....

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Roy Jarman

One of the things we didn't have years ago were tick borne diseases. I have dealt with several dogs with these, and every one of them, to a dog, had issues, one night they were on and the next night they were off. Their consistency was never the same after they contacted the disease. I have never knowingly dealt with a dog with thyroid issues, but I assume they have similar issues.

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Roy

You are so correct in thinking circle trees are a problem. No one should be content in treeing a bunch of circle trees. Yes, even s true accurate coon dog will occasionally tree a legitimate circle tree and a legitimate den tree. It's dogs that tree way too many circle and den trees that ARE THE PROBLEM. IF you are treeing more than an occasional circle or den tree, you definitely do not have a truly accurate coon dog. When you go to the hunts and hear more comments about how they just can't wait until the leaves are out, you know they have an accuracy problem with their dogs. I always wanted to hunt when the leaves were off, so I had a chance of scoring every coon. I do not want excuses, I want to see coons. Some casts in summer see every coon treed, no circles, while other casts only tree circle trees, what does that say? Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Idea

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan&Ann
Maybe before the hound gets the Title after he has proven he can do it in a crowd. Lets have him go alone with no feeders no help in a strange place and judged on his abilities on wild coon. Make the owner pay the cost of the test and the dog does not receive the title on his paperwork until he proves he is a coon dog straight up by himself...A true hound would flourish in this test. The other stuff we are all talking about would show their true colors real fast! Now that would be interesting to me to see what hounds passed this test and which ones could not tree a wild coon on their own...one trait that true hounds possess is consistency. They can do it alone, in a crowd, thick coon, thin coon....we all know what this hound looks like 90% of the time...

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__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Re: Idea

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan&Ann
Maybe before the hound gets the Title after he has proven he can do it in a crowd. Lets have him go alone with no feeders no help in a strange place and judged on his abilities on wild coon. Make the owner pay the cost of the test and the dog does not receive the title on his paperwork until he proves he is a coon dog straight up by himself...A true hound would flourish in this test. The other stuff we are all talking about would show their true colors real fast! Now that would be interesting to me to see what hounds passed this test and which ones could not tree a wild coon on their own...one trait that true hounds possess is consistency. They can do it alone, in a crowd, thick coon, thin coon....we all know what this hound looks like 90% of the time...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

How many people actually go out and tree more circles or slicks than they do coons? I just don’t see that from the hunts I’ve been to or the dogs I’ve been with.

Hunt format

We could set up s new "gun dog " format to reward accurate coon treeing dogs. A format that minuses all trees where a coon is not seen. Keep the current format for those who like the current format, just add a gun dog category for those who demand the best. Do not go and tell me that the current system rewards accuracy, it's flawed by not minusing the circle tree and den trees, you can not sell a hide if you don't see a coon. If every one plays by these rules it's fair for all that choose this format. I can guarantee you that you will get s better class of coon dogs under a gun dog format. Yes, I know some dens and some circle trees have coons, but not in the numbers we are seeing with today's digs and today's competition results. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

So many dogs would be eliminated the people would leave and the registry could not survive.

Format

Keep the current format, just add the new format for those interested in proving they have the best coon treeing dogs, not circle trees or den trees, actual coons. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Might work if you can get enough interest at the local level to sustain it

Here’s where the human problem comes in 😊
Men going by the rules instead trying to bend them, but wait I’m suppose to be talking about how to breed better dogs 😳
Ok so we must be forced to breed better dogs? Is that what I’m hearing 😁

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

I'm just curious. But what dogs from the 90s does everyone think changed things for the worse. I have my ideas and am not trying to start a poop show but was wondering. If you're scared to post on here your more than welcome to PM me. I've been fooling with these mutts for 31 years but was wondering what everyone else had in mind.

Joe levan

Conrad

Your breeding would not change at all, nor would those that BREED for coon dogs. It's the ones that BREED to win under the current rules, notice I said WIN under the current rules. If you judge what you are breeding and hunting on the concept of "feeding" your family VS winning hunts the outcome would be far different. You can not feed your family with circle trees, but you can win hunts with circle trees. We have come to tolerate way too many trees with coons not seen, simple because it's better than minus, but the bottom line is no coons no pay. Hunt what you can "feed" your family with, not what you can win hunts with and see if the breeding does not change. I have seen way too many supposedly winners strike at the start of a cast and never tree or tree 2 to 4 circle trees, either of which is unacceptable. Ghost tracks, circle trees, maybe a hot pop up coon equals loser, but not in the hunts, it equal winner. It's time to separate field trials from coon treeing hunts, just as the beagle guys have done. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

I talked to a young money hunt guy a while back. He said he wanted his dog to tree 8 times in a two hour hunt. Coon or no coon. The more times he treed the more chance he had to have a coon.

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Donald Bergeron

quote:

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Originally posted by Joseph L.
I'm just curious. But what dogs from the 90s does everyone think changed things for the worse. I have my ideas and am not trying to start a poop show but was wondering. If you're scared to post on here your more than welcome to PM me. I've been fooling with these mutts for 31 years but was wondering what everyone else had in mind.

Joe levan

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Lol, I love honesty! Your right, them suckers out of him were lazy. Loud but lazy. My least favorite one that I personally hunted with way more than most folks on this board was big d. That sucker cost me more hours of sleep than any woman in my life lol. Rascal must have reproduced funner dogs to hunt than himself. He was a winner for sure and so were his offspring but what a joke to hunt through the week! I personally think a lot of things changed with sacket jr and then with rat attack. Good or bad, however you want to see it and I am in no way degrading those 2. obviously numbers speak.

Joe levan

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Isn't a "title" for a competition hound. It has nothing to do with how they do or don't do by themselves. They have a title for pleasure dogs. It is called an HTX title and has nothing to do with a comp title.

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To elaborate even further, HTX is not a Title, it is a Certificate, & only as good as the people judging/hunting a dog. A dog has to have competition to earn a Title

This applies to the hunts as well

Dogs

The hard to please hunters usually have a coon treeer in there kennel we all have different opinions and ideas about dogs , bloodlines etc. The last thing we need is more programs and more expenses each year there are less hunters not more we all hunt what we like anyway why should I tell someone else how to hunt, raise want they want to

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I talked to a young money hunt guy a while back. He said he wanted his dog to tree 8 times in a two hour hunt. Coon or no coon. The more times he treed the more chance he had to have a coon.

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Sam fox
PKC, the place to be.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sfox91
To heck with that. I like a dog to make a tree or 2 a hour by itself resulting in plus points. Stays out of trouble, and don’t fill up a score card with circles and slicks.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
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Sam Fox

Sounds like you like a coon treer not a tree treer, that's what we ALL should want. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses