UKC Forums - Nite Hunt Scenario

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-- Nite Hunt Scenario (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928501074)

Posted by yadkintar on 03-07-2018 11:20 PM:

If the dog was declared treed minus it !!! No coon seen.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-07-2018 11:54 PM:

I have never seen it in a nite hunt but I might start seeing it a lot depending on UKC's ruling. I have seen it several times interweb hunting.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-08-2018 12:14 AM:

We turned out in a big section of pretty woods one night dogs struck and went out in an open pasture and treed on an tripod deer stand we minused them went back to the woods cut they went back out in that field and treed on a wind mill we minused them went back to the woods they went on the other side in an open field and treed on a telephone poll we minused out anything you declare your dog treed on that is empty and your dog is treeing on deserves a minus jmo.

Tar

Posted by Rip on 03-08-2018 12:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
In this situation here in order for Dog A to get tree points he had to be declared treed (5mins ran), and if dog C wasn't declared treed and coon was seen he would be sitting with 50-

This is wrong according to the rules.

The dog DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DECLARED TREED AT A PLACE OF REFUGE TO GET PLUS STRIKE POINTS.

It has been the rule for as long as I have hunted in UKC (since the late 80's early 90's.)

Heck you don't even have to tree them in to go score a hole.

Any dog at a hole or place of refuge that is there will get their strike and tree plussed if coon is seen, or strike plussed if they were never treed in. Even if there is only one dog declared treed he gets plussed his strike and tree and the others get their strike plussed.

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Posted by joey on 03-08-2018 01:01 AM:

Thats been repeated on this thread about 10 times Rip, I cant believe there are so many that do not know that.

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Posted by joey on 03-08-2018 01:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I have never seen it in a nite hunt but I might start seeing it a lot depending on UKC's ruling. I have seen it several times interweb hunting.

Oh come on Richard. You think if they say to minus it there will be a rash of people setting empty traps out? I vote if they are dumb enough to bark at a empty cage they should go to the truck, and there should be at least one set out in every block of woods that a cast will hunt in just to weed out the idiots.

Posted by jkidd1 on 03-08-2018 02:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
This is wrong according to the rules.

The dog DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DECLARED TREED AT A PLACE OF REFUGE TO GET PLUS STRIKE POINTS.

It has been the rule for as long as I have hunted in UKC (since the late 80's early 90's.)

Heck you don't even have to tree them in to go score a hole.

Any dog at a hole or place of refuge that is there will get their strike and tree plussed if coon is seen, or strike plussed if they were never treed in. Even if there is only one dog declared treed he gets plussed his strike and tree and the others get their strike plussed.

Yep your right, Sleepy pointed it out to me, thanks. Just when I think I'm getting a grip, I miss an easy one ☺️. Back to the drawing board

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Posted by elvis on 03-08-2018 02:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Oh come on Richard. You think if they say to minus it there will be a rash of people setting empty traps out? I vote if they are dumb enough to bark at a empty cage they should go to the truck, and there should be at least one set out in every block of woods that a cast will hunt in just to weed out the idiots.

I'm with you joey,any rule that saves the idiots barking at an empty trap needs to be changed.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 03-08-2018 03:33 AM:

I don't believe there is one. And I find the fact that we're six pages deep in this and the boss says he needs time to research a little concerning lol

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Posted by Rip on 03-08-2018 03:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
Yep your right, Sleepy pointed it out to me, thanks. Just when I think I'm getting a grip, I miss an easy one ☺️. Back to the drawing board

We all miss them from time to time. That's one of the good things about this board, somebody will know the right answer.

Except in this case where we need to see how the Trap rule is worded LOL.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-08-2018 04:14 AM:

Read the last sentence carefully UKC has already made a ruling for us to follow a couple of years ago.

Coonhound Advisor
June 22, 2016

Source: Allen Gingerich
As published in May 2016 Coonhound Bloodlines.

Off Game in a Live Trap

Q: I have what is likely a dumb question, but here goes. I was in a hunt this past weekend in a three-dog Nite Champion cast. Halfway through the hunt, one dog was withdrawn, leaving two dogs to finish the hunt. On the very next turnout, the two remaining dogs shot down the woods about 500 yards and load up and start treeing. Both dogs were declared treed. After 10 minutes of walking getting to them, we arrived to find them treed on a live trap on the ground. In the trap was a squirrel. I was the judge on the cast and, to be honest, my head was spinning trying to come up with the right call. Im well aware that you cant score a coon in a trap, but this one had off-game. I ended making the call to scratch the dogs, one of which was my own.

After thinking about it more, Im really second-guessing my call in the woods. Reason being, points are deleted if a trap or a cage has a coon it, so why would it be scored any other way regardless of the species of game in then trap or the cage? All three of us handlers discussed it at length and we all saw it both ways. If scratching was the wrong call, then I really hate it for the other guys dog.
L. Thompson, South Carolina

A: Theres currently no reference of it in the rulebook, but youre right, UKC maintains that points should always be deleted in the case of dogs treeing on a locked live trap or a cage. It is also UKCs position that the game being held in the trap or cage does not make any difference. Although youll probably never see that happen again, its one to keep in your back pocket for future reference. While were on the topic, lets further clarify that it doesnt matter if the trap is holding a raccoon, off-game, a scent rag or nothing at all. Delete the points and go on.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-08-2018 04:31 AM:

I told y'all that a couple of pages ago but no one ever listens to me.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 03-08-2018 04:33 AM:

Wow lol

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-08-2018 04:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I told y'all that a couple of pages ago but no one ever listens to me.

I answered way back no one listens to me either even when jim said was probably right.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 03-08-2018 04:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Read the last sentence carefully UKC has already made a ruling for us to follow a couple of years ago.

Coonhound Advisor
June 22, 2016

Source: Allen Gingerich
As published in May 2016 Coonhound Bloodlines.

Off Game in a Live Trap

Q: I have what is likely a dumb question, but here goes. I was in a hunt this past weekend in a three-dog Nite Champion cast. Halfway through the hunt, one dog was withdrawn, leaving two dogs to finish the hunt. On the very next turnout, the two remaining dogs shot down the woods about 500 yards and load up and start treeing. Both dogs were declared treed. After 10 minutes of walking getting to them, we arrived to find them treed on a live trap on the ground. In the trap was a squirrel. I was the judge on the cast and, to be honest, my head was spinning trying to come up with the right call. Im well aware that you cant score a coon in a trap, but this one had off-game. I ended making the call to scratch the dogs, one of which was my own.

After thinking about it more, Im really second-guessing my call in the woods. Reason being, points are deleted if a trap or a cage has a coon it, so why would it be scored any other way regardless of the species of game in then trap or the cage? All three of us handlers discussed it at length and we all saw it both ways. If scratching was the wrong call, then I really hate it for the other guys dog.
L. Thompson, South Carolina

A: Theres currently no reference of it in the rulebook, but youre right, UKC maintains that points should always be deleted in the case of dogs treeing on a locked live trap or a cage. It is also UKCs position that the game being held in the trap or cage does not make any difference. Although youll probably never see that happen again, its one to keep in your back pocket for future reference. While were on the topic, lets further clarify that it doesnt matter if the trap is holding a raccoon, off-game, a scent rag or nothing at all. Delete the points and go on.

And there you have it
LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF MASTER OF HOUNDS, HUNT DIRETORS and judges / handlers have egg on our faces.
We all have to remember the ADVISOR part isn't all in book form--this is found on the UKC news part of the internet web. or in the Advisor columns in the Monthly Bloodlines
Allen , I think Redneck Mafia gets a box of glazed sweet buns.

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Posted by jawscardodger on 03-08-2018 05:01 AM:

Redneck Mafia wins with being the first one two get it right on page 3

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-08-2018 12:11 PM:

I don't agree for one simple reason if you declare your dog treed you should be held accountable no matter what that dog is treeing on if it's clear there is no coon which means slick !! Most that have answered the way I have never have had this happen I myself rate this just like treeing in one end of a road culvert and you can clearly see all the way through it and tell it's empty. Anybody that would delete an empty trap would circle a slick tree jmo.

Tar

Posted by Philip on 03-08-2018 12:19 PM:

The end. Lol

Posted by yadkintar on 03-08-2018 12:32 PM:

That advisor is fast becoming a thorn in my butt lol.

Tar

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-08-2018 12:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
If there was a coon there it would have been deleted. With no way to gain points there also is no way to take minus, points should have been deleted. It is not a place of refuge it is a trap any other object is seen as a place of refuge or a tree and scored as such but not a trap.

Can't have it both ways if it can't be scored when there is a coon it can't be scored.
Tar maple glazed

Posted by yadkintar on 03-08-2018 01:06 PM:

Jennifer you just love to prove me wrong and been wrong a lot lately crap going to have to go to night school to learn all these yuppy rules in that advisor..................... Or play dumb like I don't know it exist and just use the rule book or score card. Lol

Tar

Posted by novicane65 on 03-08-2018 01:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Jennifer you just love to prove me wrong and been wrong a lot lately crap going to have to go to night school to learn all these yuppy rules in that advisor..................... Or play dumb like I don't know it exist and just use the rule book or score card. Lol

Tar

This is just my opinion, but if its not in the rule book it shouldn't be a rule. So yes Tar I'm agreeing with you.

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Posted by yadkinriver on 03-08-2018 01:44 PM:

Tar you finally have someone agreeing with you BUT it looks like you owe that lady a box of maple glazed.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-08-2018 02:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Read the last sentence carefully UKC has already made a ruling for us to follow a couple of years ago.

Coonhound Advisor
June 22, 2016

Source: Allen Gingerich
As published in May 2016 Coonhound Bloodlines.

Off Game in a Live Trap

Q: I have what is likely a dumb question, but here goes. I was in a hunt this past weekend in a three-dog Nite Champion cast. Halfway through the hunt, one dog was withdrawn, leaving two dogs to finish the hunt. On the very next turnout, the two remaining dogs shot down the woods about 500 yards and load up and start treeing. Both dogs were declared treed. After 10 minutes of walking getting to them, we arrived to find them treed on a live trap on the ground. In the trap was a squirrel. I was the judge on the cast and, to be honest, my head was spinning trying to come up with the right call. Im well aware that you cant score a coon in a trap, but this one had off-game. I ended making the call to scratch the dogs, one of which was my own.

After thinking about it more, Im really second-guessing my call in the woods. Reason being, points are deleted if a trap or a cage has a coon it, so why would it be scored any other way regardless of the species of game in then trap or the cage? All three of us handlers discussed it at length and we all saw it both ways. If scratching was the wrong call, then I really hate it for the other guys dog.
L. Thompson, South Carolina

A: Theres currently no reference of it in the rulebook, but youre right, UKC maintains that points should always be deleted in the case of dogs treeing on a locked live trap or a cage. It is also UKCs position that the game being held in the trap or cage does not make any difference. Although youll probably never see that happen again, its one to keep in your back pocket for future reference. While were on the topic, lets further clarify that it doesnt matter if the trap is holding a raccoon, off-game, a scent rag or nothing at all. Delete the points and go on.

That's one with reference to live/box traps. Thinking there might be another buried in the archives.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 03-08-2018 02:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Jennifer you just love to prove me wrong and been wrong a lot lately crap going to have to go to night school to learn all these yuppy rules in that advisor..................... Or play dumb like I don't know it exist and just use the rule book or score card. Lol

Tar

I don't know the rules but I will eat donuts but make mine chocolate!
Jen

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