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-- Increasing Performance point payouts (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928485864)

Was you hunting pork chop ?

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I remember it. I drew out with him that night. I couldn't understand why he was hunting a dog at AO but found out why later.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
It was Nowheres wasn't it?

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$20,000 worth of PP for autum oaks $50,000 worth of PP for the world hunt now tars listening I am brushing ole granny up at 10 she is still performanced on the road again lol.


Take off the cap !!!!

They don't give pp for RQE, zones, semis, or finals of world hunt! Lol

I would mind if ukc would take a few thousand out of PP to put in a world hunt pot for a PP dog to win

They get plenty for major hunt wins, I believe the money should be dispersed at the local level. There hasn't been significant decreases in attendance at major events.

Well then let's start giving them then do like HW said go up on the fees a little bit and wamo !!!!! Success !!!! The boys said they don't want to hunt for win slips. To chicken to hunt in the slams because they get ole babbling blubber butt scratched because he can't keep his trap shut. Give them some incentive but make them load up them super duper Grntch up travel and pay to play I traveled to aurora ky for years and ain't never won nada make them put up or shut up. I seen a whole bunch of parents and kids drive from all over the USA last week for prizes and a good looking trophy I did not hear one complaint not one !!



HW why would you want to get paid for either hunting by yourself or 2 or 3 other dogs there is a reason the other kc's have races incentive simple as that.


And anouther thing lol if you did what I said and a non performanced dog won one of those major hunts that would just keep more money in the program.

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Originally posted by H.W. Moore
They get plenty for major hunt wins, I believe the money should be dispersed at the local level. There hasn't been significant decreases in attendance at major events.

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There is a lot to consider when talking about the performance program and point value, each year they have to figure the amount that they will be paying out you have to remember lets say the performance program takes in 50k in 2015 that money has to sustain that program for at least 10 years because just like tar and ole granny at 10 years old she can win a hunt and get a check and that money has to come from the pot from the year in witch they were registered or the program would go broke. I think one thing that could help and may take a few years to figure out would to put a cap on a dogs age that it can earn points, lets say 7 years , now UKC does not have to hold funds for whatever time they do so now to cover old dogs earning points, Boys UKC does care and Allen and Todd get kicked around pretty hard by some of you but it's part of there job and its not that easy of one either. I do agree that the program needs a revamp to help increase its values, Best of luck all and back to the hay field I go.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Well then let's start giving them then do like HW said go up on the fees a little bit and wamo !!!!! Success !!!! The boys said they don't want to hunt for win slips
HW why would you want to get paid for either hunting by yourself or 2 or 3 other dogs there is a reason the other kc's have races incentive simple as that.


And anouther thing lol if you did what I said and a non performanced dog won one of those major hunts that would just keep more money in the program.

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HW agreed. Joe I think ukc staff is doing all they can do the hunters need to step up I see things differently since last weekend. Now all the hunters want a bigger venue that ain't going to happen when all you are paying is to redgister your dog $30 performance fee and $20 entry fee. You want to be a big winner you gotta pay to do it simple as that. Try going up to a major $$$ hunt giving $40,000 away you enter for $250 you win your first cast get beat in the second one you either enter again the next night or go home the story of my life lol. Kinda like windstar world casino 10 miles from my house biggest casino in the world they say that big fancy place wasent built on winners the losers are paying for it tar don't even look at it when I drive by it $50 buffet not me boy.

Also to help at the local hunts ukc could make the world hunt PP payout only go to champion at different % based on hunt titles the dog has at the time the zones start. Grandnite getting 100% less titled dogs getting less and carried over to the next year

Re: Re: Increasing Performance point payouts

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
H.W. Moore and all,
While I've read several posts in this thread, I've not read a whole lot nor responded for several reasons, which is totally irrelevant. I don't think I know you personally but you seem to be a pretty intelligent man based on your ideas and comments. That goes for others who commented as well.

I think most would agree that the best ideas are the result of the individual having a good solid basis to work from. I say this because, until now, we have not publicly provided certain actual information as it pertains to the Performance Program. Information that I think might change some ideas and perspectives when it comes to considering the best ideas on how to improve the program.
T

Regardless, I'm going to start a new thread for discussion with regards to ideas on how to improve on the Performance Program. Probably better than burying that information within this thread and see what good ideas might come of it. We'll be interested in considering any idea that would improve the program. In that thread I'll disclose some of the afore mentioned information that might be helpful.

Thanks.

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HW look up at the top its all ready there.

I was surprised to only see one response so far but that's ok. I had it stuck to the top but maybe they are missing it so I'll unstick it.

Re: Increasing Performance point payouts

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Originally posted by H.W. Moore
Suggestions to make a $100 point a $300 with very minor increases. Helping hunters who are entering the hunts and increasing interest for some who aren't. Mostly bringing attendance up and helping the local clubs out.
1.$10-20 increase to performance register one.
2.$10-20 increase to nominate a litter.
3.$20-30 fee to nominate a dam before breeding.
4.$25-50 increase in Performance sire fee.
5. Don't waste paper, envelopes, postage or man hours mailing checks under $50
6. Add a $1 fee per dog entered at a hunt to be placed directly in the performance fund.
Any 3 of these suggestions will more than double the fund, all will more than triple it.
This program has become stagnant and losing interest rapidly.

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Get um HW lol. In a seriousness the program is ok just like it is you just got to find a way to get numbers up at the local hunts to get numbers up that Grntch hunt would work. Got to give more places and got to have some sort of race and hunt at the end of the year what good would the super stakes be with out the races and the big hunt at the end of the year. I am going to be home for the next six weeks I will be watching the progress. You got to concider what would be good for everybody down here in the south we are struggling just a few of us old hard heads trying to hang on a ray of hope would go a long ways right about now rule changes would help to I love the slam format just not any close enough.


Allen : in the slam hunts let them babble if it means that much to them I will even see if I can round up enough help to have one down here just one kicker hit them with the no leash lock rule just in the slams see how that works make the paperwork goof proof 🤔

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Mr. Moore here is one for you. I don't have data as I use to be able to look on the UKC website and see the fund total and point value. I have had no luck finding those numbers now.

Anyway here is the thing I think we are overlooking. How has the fund performed over time. I am sure there are up years and down years but probably pretty close every year.
With other KC programs the output for that years SS hunts are based of the amount taken in for that group of dogs.

If I see it correctly you pay up a UKC pup in the program and that money goes into this years fund. The pup doesn't get hunted in hunts for a year or two. So that means I am putting money into a fund that is getting paid to someone else this year. Then two years later when I am hunting my dog, I hope others are putting into the fund then. Right now in the other KC's they make a major change and the money is already earmarked for the programs. In UKC a major change won't be seen till the year you start hunting the pup and the amount will depend on how that year is doing. Not how the year did you paid all the fees.

I am thinking that there should be no litter nomination fee since only 24% are doing it or know how to do it. Increase the fee $1 a pup. The dam owner doesn't nominate the litter and that $30 prevents $30 a pup from being spent in the program. Don't make sense to me.

Not sure I like your $50 minimum. Money goes to the breeders and it is generally a small amount. Eliminate that and your eliminating one of the main reasons some breeders enter the program.

Mr. Moore you seem to be in tune with the heartbeat of whats going on. After reading all this, again I will say the numbers are awful. If it is a cultural thing, which I now think it is. Increasing the fees for those willing to play now will only drive them somewhere else. Only time and marketing to change the culture will change the program. I am sure you have heard of a paradigm shift. That is what's needed and many business have done over the years to change their course.

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I don't see a lot of breeders jumping ship over slight increases in fees that haven't been raised substantially since the programs inception over a decade ago, especially if the point values raise again making Performance pups a wanted commodity same as they were when values were high in the beginning. If they do maybe coonhounds won't continue to be over produced as they have been the last several decades resulting in stagnant pup prices. Many hunters used fur money to offset hunting cost and now raise a few litters regardless of the quality of their dogs.

quote:

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Originally posted by H.W. Moore
I don't see a lot of breeders jumping ship over slight increases in fees that haven't been raised substantially since the programs inception over a decade ago, especially if the point values raise again making Performance pups a wanted commodity same as they were when values were high in the beginning. If they do maybe coonhounds won't continue to be over produced as they have been the last several decades resulting in stagnant pup prices. Many hunters used fur money to offset hunting cost and now raise a few litters regardless of the quality of their dogs.

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I disagree. Yorkies, shnauzers, pugs, chows, poodles and most other lap dogs have a huge market in every demographic in America & usually have much smaller litters than a typical hound. I know some hounds are purchased as pets but the I'd say that number is relatively small compared to other groups of dogs. The number of coonhunters shrinks yearly, the number of homes looking for pets grows.

I will say it again you got a recipe for what works and what don't the other kc uses they got goals for you to achieve more oppertunities to win plus they got the most important part they got enough staff to handle it if ukc don't want to grow we can't make them look at it this way I set in the moh chair all night, I fill out the paperwork , I make sure the cast get out, I cook and clean , I mail them the check , they got a handfull of wins lips to look at looks like to me I am the dummy they know how to run a successfull buisness lol.

You got it exactly right Tar, The other KC gives us goals to achieve, The only goal I can work on through the year at UKC is making a dog Grand. After that is done they loose me as a customer for several years. The PP program would keep me coming back if they would allow me to hunt with the other dogs as a grand. Get rid of the different classes of dogs and that would be solved. I know it was set up that way for a reason but things have changed. We all know what happens when you don't change with them.

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Joey I think we might be the only ones that thinks that needs to happen.

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