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-- Are You Paying the Wal-Mart Tax? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=87316)

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Originally posted by joe wilson
sheep tell me what you stand for as a dumdacrat......and a christian im curious you seem to have a opinion about everything....

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no doubt our tax policy and spending are out of whack... does not take a membership card in mensa to see that if spending rises and tax refunds to the top 1% of wage earners continues that revenue inbalances will esculate creating a situation where the future of our nation's citizens not only will be mortaged, but as Honalieh stated so well, foreign nations will hold the mortage on our nation and its people... this is the true selling of America...
our nation will be conquered without a shot being fired.. an alliance of international bankers fueled by our tax give away and increased spending will be the victors in the international war of economics...
certainly not an expert on tax-revenue policy, just know that if one continues to spend more-more- and the means to gain the needed revenue is borrow-borrow that a monumental problem is created and will grow-grow expotentially...
this is a situation we must get under control, also the time to sack the inefficient regressive-progressive income tax with all of its write offs and confusion and replace it with a national excise tax or a fixed rate- no write off, all must- do pay, income tax...

notice the Walmart has been a contributor to tornado recovery effort in our area, central il., springfield... possibly an means of investing now to gain sales in the future...

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Originally posted by Albert Fulton
Does'nt everybody have an opinion on everything?? I know as a dumdacrat I do. They change from time to time . I was always under the belief that everyone had a right to their opinion evan if I did not agree with it.

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__________________
keep it real
26572

most probably aware, there are several sites on-line that track wal-mart activity... watch dog type groups that report what they define as walmart negatives...

America becoming owned by foreigners....
Essex, upscale hotel in nyc owned by Dubai Investments... Church Chicken, Caribou Coffee House owned by Saudi investors... we borrow over $ billion per day to finance trade deficits...Over 51% of our national debt in hands of foriegn interests and growing... Europe is a giant stake holder in this situation.. Our gov't does a great deal of business with foreign interests, Michelin for nasa tires, dsm- armor for our troops, sodexho for troop meals, french-dutch-french... 1/5 oil refineries here foreign owned... on -on-on... since mid 2000 over 3 million manufacturing jobs have been transported overseas... our gov't. now depends upon the inflow of foreign cash to finance our national debt, what happens if this were to be curtailed???
national debt climbs yearly, debt celing just raised by 781 billion to nearly 9 trillion, globalization in action...

wonder if some of that foreign investment capital would be available to subsidize an old coonhunter, might get em involved in coonhounds if they could use a tax write-off....

Doc, there's a simple solution to the problem. Wait till foreigners buy up everything, then nationalize everything just like they did way back when they were still riding camels.

usually nationalization only has been applied to natural resources, oil, natural gas, coal, minerals etc.... doubt that would be viable here do to the interdependence of global economics, yet might a plan for nationalism to trump globalization...

looking at gasoline prices and the impending increases coming for summer including the incorporation of more ethanol in the blend while oil industry profits are at record levels encourages the thought of nationalization-lo.... captalism is the way, but in some situations supply-demand no longer control the market place and the government may have to come in play to regulate fair trade practices... know gas much higher in europe, but this is the u.s.a., certainly international conditions fuel- no pun, oil prices, but may come a time that extreme profit becomes secondary to the overall well being and stabillity of the nation...

Rip,
look at Rand Institute of Health Care for the abstract concerning quality of health care, Rand should take to it. hopr you had a good week off..

Dang Sheep you got me thinking. Head hurts already

There is a black sheep in my wifes family, married to my wifes sister. The republicans want him to get a job, the democrats figure he is doing just fine the way he is. He, of course votes democrat every year and cusses the republicans for all that he is loosing. He is over 50 and he and my wifes sister just had their 10th baby. They weren't necessarilly interested in another child so much as having one would keep the WIK flowing and the other benefits would increase X-1. They live in a very large HUD home with 7 bedrooms and don't pay a dime to live there. They drive a brand new 16 passenger van, provided by the church they attend. I must add that he not only votes but he does go to church. They rely on WIK and other programs for food, electricity, fuel, clothing and on and on. His wife does work and does not want a raise because they might lose out on some of the government programs. He has not in his entire life earned enough or payed into enough for him to collect social security when he reaches retirement age. If he died tomarrow his wife and 10 kids would recieve nothing.

I offered him a room at my house, free of charge, and a job at the place I worked. The only stipulation that I had was he had to put in 48 hours a week there. I would have given him a ride to and from work and even fed him so the money he earned could go to his family. He said in one short sentence that he has more than what I offered now without lifting a finger. Go Union, Go Democrat.

don't think this guy's problem is that he is a democrat, just that he is a non-contributor and has found the least restrictive route to have his needs met... believe we should make help available to those willing to help themselves, not subsidize those unwilling... course the kicker is what happens to the 10 kids and all the other kids that find themselves in these situations... don't want to pay for this situation, but on the other hand don't want to allow all kinds of write-offs and handouts-supports to the rich either... our gov't. has placed the financial burden on the back of the middle class who must pack the rich-poor as well as themselves, eventually the back will break and we may all crumble abd take the tumble...

Bulkyer

You've hit on a major problem. There are certainly people out there like this, though they are a minority.

But, what do you do about a situation like this? If you penalize the parents, you penalize the kids. Would you want to penalize your nieces and nephews because of their parents lack of motivation, ambition, and work ethic. From the mothers point of view, I can understand her motives. She wants to help her children (I'm assuming). They are using the system. Sometimes they have to, because working actually penalizes them.

Now, switch gears. Assume you have the same situation, work ethic, etc. One exception : They were born into wealth, and are multi-millionaires. They live off of investments (inherited), yet still do not have to work for a living.

Do you have the same opinion of someone rich that doesn't work for a living (inherited wealth) as someone that is poor and doesn't work for a living (gets govt. assistance)? Is there really any difference other than the situations they were born into?

The non-working rich and non-working poor are more like each other than they are to the majority of us (working class). The non-working rich mange investments for their income. The non-working poor manage govt. programs and subsidies for their income. The rest of us WORK FOR A LIVING!!!

Whether they live off a govt. dole, or an inheritance dole, we're talking about the same type of people. It seems like your brother-in-law in managing his situation without having to work. If he'd just been born rich enough, he could be our President, a senator, etc. Lots of similarities (excepting wealth).

What's the difference between Inheritance Welfare and Govt. Wefare?

Maybe because inheritance was actually EARNED by someone in the family and voluntarily handed down and the one exploiting welfare is stealing from the taxpayer?

If the one that is living off an inheritance doesn't do something productive with that money it will dry up and go away eventually, it will run out. That money is actually providing jobs for others etc.

The one on welfare will just continue to steal from the taxpayer because that well will never run dry as long as it buys the politicians votes. It provides nothing but a system full of leeches, actually encourages and rewards bad behavior and poor decisions, and creates a dependant society that will eventually crumble due to lack of ability.

Don't mind a hand up, and dearly love Charities etc. I think the Church lets the poor down by too often using the false excuse of "it's the government's job". Well no it's the Churches job and the reason it's the Churches job is so that society doesn't crumble because Churches aren't obligated to reward bad behavior and have better control over the money.

__________________
Let's go huntin

stealing-abusing the system is just that regardless if one is in the upper social strata or finds themselves mired in the bottom rungs of society... both offenses should be eliminated- not tolerated, yet the system renews itself and continues these detrimental practices... abusing the tax structure, paying yourself to go on vacation, stock manipulation, fradulent business practices, etc. are no better than welfare fraud, both need to be stopped.. welfare is no longer an entitlement since afdc has been replaced by tanf by legislation enacted by congress in 1996, sets 5 year cap on collecting these funds, etc... course glitches in the system, but step in the right direction, now we need to do the same at the top and eliminate unfair advandtages for those who find themselves higher up the food chain, no need to redistribute wealth or punish the affluent, just level the playing field so that the middle class gets a fair share of the rewards and not just carries the financial burden..

Rip

Government Dole/Inheritance Dole (two forms of welfare with different sources). I don't see a significant difference. Both are living off money that they did not earn through their own work/efforts/merit. The biggest difference I see is the source of funds, and status in society. Otherwise, we're talking about the same type of people (work ethics wise). Regarding cultural sophistication, we're probably (usually) talking about huge differences. But, that's aside from the point.

Regarding your investment point that investments provide jobs. That's Supply Side (Trickle Down) Economics. That's the theory that the Reagan and GW Bush administrations used to give huge tax cuts to the rich (we financed them). The problem being that these were unfunded tax cuts for the rich being put onto the back of working America through increased debt loads on each and all of us, for the benefit of few.

I believe that our economy and country would be better served by Demand Side Economics. The majority of America (working class) want things they can not afford, so they do without (ignoring credit card chargers). Put the rich tax cuts in the hands of the middle class (but, lets balance a budget), and they would become buyers of product, seeking a source of supply, thereby driving the economy, and providing investment opportunity to those that can supply the demand. CONSUMERS DRIVE THE MARKET!!!

Govt. Welfare (barring participant abuses, which we know happen) basically provides for housing, clothing and food needs. They may be taking govt. money, but they're not keeping and accumulating it. It goes right back into the economy. They are not so much of a drag as they are a conduit. They don't keep or accumulate wealth. They put what they get right back into society. Inheritance Welfare Participants still must meet their needs/demands, but after that shift to the supply side and the accumulation of wealth. Our economy is better served by putting money into the hands of those that must/will/want to spend it. Spending drives the economy.

Supply Side. As a soon to be Health Care Provider, you will have the supply side. That's Great!!! I commend you. But, for you as a supplier to have success, you will need a demand for your services. If there is a real demand for your services, but no resources in the hands of the demanders, would you want to work for free?, or would you prefer that they had the resources (including insurance) to pay you? Supply without demand is worthless. When you put power/money in the hands of the Demanders, those that can supply that demand will benefit.

Enough for now.

WalMart

I tell ya WalMart is getting cheaper and cheaper eack year. I know, been working for them all together 6 years and counting. Up till last year you could get a meritt raise when ever, now theres only a 3 month gap when a employee can be eligble for one. Goes by your hire date and such. Not a big window for getting one. And you dont see many getting them know. We get a yearly evaluation raise each year, use to get a percentage of what you made. Which would equal out pretty good if you were maken a few $$$. Now its a set rate not even 50 cents. Only get 55 cents if you get a exceeds expectations, which is rare.
Last year are inventory was bad, so the said we couldnt get are bonus this year. Which everybody looks forward too even if its not much. But its a real big slap in the face when we couldnt get ares but all the managers at the store got theres. And they hire people in at such low wages its crazy. When I got on with them I left FoodLion to go work with them, and got hired and paid by my experience in the grocery side for stocking. There always cuting corners with the $$$ anything to save a buck for there selves. They could care less bout the every day workers, all the managers stick together and think your lower than them. Here where I live theres 4 WalMarts in town with a 5th going up soon. Bad enough they try to force everybody out, but they puts stores so close they compete bewteen thereselves, which makes the every day work loose hrs each week. I think the company need some tunning up and some better leaders. There money hungry. Jeffro

Re: WalMart

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Originally posted by TreeMUPKennel
I tell ya WalMart is getting cheaper and cheaper eack year. I know, been working for them all together 6 years and counting. Up till last year you could get a meritt raise when ever, now theres only a 3 month gap when a employee can be eligble for one. Goes by your hire date and such. Not a big window for getting one. And you dont see many getting them know. We get a yearly evaluation raise each year, use to get a percentage of what you made. Which would equal out pretty good if you were maken a few $$$. Now its a set rate not even 50 cents. Only get 55 cents if you get a exceeds expectations, which is rare.
Last year are inventory was bad, so the said we couldnt get are bonus this year. Which everybody looks forward too even if its not much. But its a real big slap in the face when we couldnt get ares but all the managers at the store got theres. And they hire people in at such low wages its crazy. When I got on with them I left FoodLion to go work with them, and got hired and paid by my experience in the grocery side for stocking. There always cuting corners with the $$$ anything to save a buck for there selves. They could care less bout the every day workers, all the managers stick together and think your lower than them. Here where I live theres 4 WalMarts in town with a 5th going up soon. Bad enough they try to force everybody out, but they puts stores so close they compete bewteen thereselves, which makes the every day work loose hrs each week. I think the company need some tunning up and some better leaders. There money hungry. Jeffro

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__________________
In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

very good explanation of demand side vs. supply-trickle down economics.. course from the perspective of demand... the tax cuts for the richest of the rich have burdened the fiscal ability of the government and the middle class working person.. giving more $$$ to the already rich does not spur the economy and these funds go toward increasing the level of unearned income creating very limited overal benefit to the economy.. programs that are needed are put aside or paid for with huge borrowed money, the selling of the nation to foreign power, denying-underfunding programs necessary for the nations propsperity and well being as the deficit grows-grows...
not much of an economist, but believe the time has come to make the tax burden fair-shared, personally prefer national excise or single rate- non graduated income tax-no deductions, all pay to replace the bloated regressive posing as progressive income tax...
as for walmart, doubt they are different than other business entities in that they want to maximize profit and see employees as a means to this end, the less they get the more proft, course an oversimplification.. what happens when there is a growing demand-need and the ability to fill the same is diminshing, not referencing wants, but real needs...

If you don't think the Unions have done alot of good for this country just go ask some of the 80 and 90 year old blue collar workers what the working conditions and standards of living were like in the early 1900's compared to now! They will be sure to tell you they had to work a tremendous amount of hours for practically nothing in the most miserable conditions imaginable and still couldn't feed their family's. Look at the sweat shops in some of the third world countries if you want to see what things would be like without unions or labor laws ( which were brought about due to unions). What about child labor? ( just another accomplishment of Unions) Sometimes History has to repeat itself in order to remind people why things have changed to what they are and by the opinion of some people here it seems that the only way they can be reminded is by going back to the conditions of the 20's or 30's. I'll bet you would here them crying then!---UNIONS-THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT YOU THE WEEKEND!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by john r. kincaid
If you don't think the Unions have done alot of good for this country just go ask some of the 80 and 90 year old blue collar workers what the working conditions and standards of living were like in the early 1900's compared to now! They will be sure to tell you they had to work a tremendous amount of hours for practically nothing in the most miserable conditions imaginable and still couldn't feed their family's. Look at the sweat shops in some of the third world countries if you want to see what things would be like without unions or labor laws ( which were brought about due to unions). What about child labor? ( just another accomplishment of Unions) Sometimes History has to repeat itself in order to remind people why things have changed to what they are and by the opinion of some people here it seems that the only way they can be reminded is by going back to the conditions of the 20's or 30's. I'll bet you would here them crying then!---UNIONS-THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT YOU THE WEEKEND!!!!!

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__________________
In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

Well there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in stealing from the taxpayer and living off an inheritance.

The biggest one is that SOMEBODY EARNED the inheritance money and they can give it to whoever they want to however they want to. It was THEIRS, and they EARNED it.

You know what, If (it will never happen but IF) I make enough money that my children don't ever have to work and can just enjoy life then MORE POWER TO ME, it's mine and I hand it down however I want to. Nobody but me earned it and nobody but me and whoever I say so has a right to one single penny of it.

That's the fundamental flaw in the arguement that the welfare mooch is the same as the inheritance kid. They are miles apart because the money BELONGS to the family getting it, the welfare mooch is stealing the money from the taxpayer. They nor anyone in their family earned one penny but they will spend all they can take from "the system".

The welfare lifer is just a mooch that drains society and contributes nothin except maybe crime. (notice I said lifer and not everyone on welfare, just those that make it a lifestyle).

I have a question for you, do you support the government stealing everything a man has worked for so it can't be handed down to his children at his death? That's the only way you can stop inheritance. Personally I think the practice of the government stealing 50% of it at death is one of the most putrid things that has ever existed. And we wonder why there are not many family farms when the government comes in and asseses the land at "shopping mall" prices and ask the kids to come up with 50% of its new assessed value of 4 million dollars (that would be 2 million for those keeping track) just to keep a farm that they could barely make ends meet with? DISGUSTING.

It takes 8-10 years for MOST Executive type things especially supply side economics, to take effect. That's why every single time there has been a tax increase in American history there has been a recession of similar proportion 8-10 years later. I predicted the billary recession that began in 2000, and it wouldn't have mattered one bit who was president at the time either. 2000 was about 8 years after Billarys tax increase.

As a matter of record, if you will check out the numbers, Supply side economics worked out quite well, quite well indeed. It helped sustain the Billary years before the dot com boom (then later bust which helped sustain the post tax increase recession).The Regan years was full of record breaking treasury funds and increases in revenue coming into the government. Unfortunately the democratic congress failed to keep thier promise and increased spending at a rate much faster than the increase in revenues. There was no line item veto and any veto was sure to be over ridden by the large democratic majority.

To put it in simple terms, if you kill the cow the suckling calf will starve to death.

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Let's go huntin

As far as I'm conserned everyone should be allowed good health insurance. I believe we as a country should look at who we are electing into office. My oppion is that we should do like Canada and other nations and provide health care for everyone.

Rich Pounders

good available health care is a need not a want... should it be insurance delivered, private-public etc.. not as much an issue as delivering it... we can find $$$ to aid india with nuclear development, many billions to fight a war in iraq, billions to fund bloated pork barrel legislation, on-on, yet nothing-nada to help the nation gain better health care... should no longer be a party-political issue, but something that just gets done... sure once the needs of people trump the wants of vested big $$$ and the political hacks thay have bought and paid for, maybe these basic needs can-will be filled...