UKC Forums - Blueticks at the world' why we caint win it

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-- Blueticks at the world' why we caint win it (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928509732)

Posted by Surveyor on 11-07-2018 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
I do believe if the bluetick world could put 60 hounds in the top 100 with the coon treeing ability of Big Country, Curly Jane, Botox and other top blue dogs. We would see a world champion blue dog.

If I was looking to put particular dog names on this thread, I would look deep at what consistently puts the most Blueticks the closest to a world Championship and I would conclude something close to Bingo's N.B. Dancer. Dancer was himself a world Champion Bluetick that reproduced 2 world champion Blueticks. At least 6 of the 13 Blueticks that made it to the finals this year (Crush, Split Shot, Chalk Eyes, Doc, Grit and Punkin), including the only 2 to win double casts at the zones (Grit and Punkin) go back to Dancer in a 3 generation pedigree. Seems this would be a good area to look for anyone looking to try and put together a Bluetick with world Championship capabilities.

__________________
Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

Posted by blueticker on 11-07-2018 06:19 PM:

Certain breeding has trended toward the top of the world hunt. The Dancer bred hounds have done well. These type hounds in numbers is what it takes.
Echo, Echo II, Bodacious, Rambo II, Sugar, Sadie, Bocephus, Josie, Botox others in the top twenty from similar lineage not mentioned. If and when a blue dogs wins the hunt I predict it will come from a hound bred from one of these two lines. However, I'm wrong about 90% of the time.

__________________
Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)

The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Posted by tln70 on 11-07-2018 08:41 PM:

I hope it's mine, going to breed a hammer 18/dancer male to a Bocephus female. Lol

__________________
GOD BLESS and good hunting

Posted by bluetick250 on 11-08-2018 12:39 AM:

What about lonesome 2 dog consistently wins in ukc and pkc what u hear young dogs are doing very good is it cause it’s not from right name guy just asking????????

__________________
Brandon

Posted by blueticker on 11-08-2018 01:34 AM:

Most lines of hounds can potentially produce a top winner. If you have one promote it.

Posted by bluetick250 on 11-08-2018 02:35 AM:

U just answered the question y not breed to the dog that’s a proven winner

__________________
Brandon

Posted by ELMO OVERTON on 11-08-2018 01:54 PM:

We all have our preferences on what we like about a line of dogs and what we think will take us to the top. Yes promote what you think is best and breed for a better dog.
Unfortunately we all have blinders on at times and that is what keeps us from forming the blues that my take us over the top.
Just take a look at the historical reproduction list. I bet you will find dogs that have made it high in the world from those studs or related.
All lines of hounds are represented in some form or fashion. All I know is if you don't compete you can't win.
Can you name the blues that made it to the final cast? Now what were they out of?

__________________
Past and Present

RIP
GrNitech Overton's Breathless Blue Chief Full brother to Nite ch Snowdens Runt
Gr Nite ch Overton's Breathless Blu Knight. King of Hunt Fall Round Up 2006 loudest dog I have ever owned.
Gr Nite ch Overton's Breathless Blue Roler hit died at 2years old at semi finals of World hunt
Gr Nite ch Utchmans Double Eagle Hoss
Dual Grand Utchmans So Blue Timber top 100 Finalist in 2005 World hunt 2012 performance sire
Gr Ch Nite CH Overton's Breathless Blue Warrior 4wins died at 6 yrs old. Sire to Knight
NiteCh Overton's Breathless Blue Dixie LOUD!
NiteCH Lienbachs Breathless Blue Jammer
Nite Ch Overton's Breathless Blue Drum 3 wins to Grand. before 2 yrs old Running ant treeing wild coons at 5 months alone.
Gr Ch Nitech Rob's Blue Tomahawk
Pr Overton's Breathless Blue Dolly super fast track and tree dog. accurate.
Grch Nitech Overton's Utchmans Blue Belle
Nite Ch Overton's Breathless Blue Sabrina 2nd place Nite ch at Fall Round Up 2009
Nite Ch Pr Overton's Breathless Blue Sounder
GRNite Ch Pr Overton's Breathless Blu Magic 13 years old brother to Roler
Pr Overton's Breathless Blue Gobber. Running and treeing wild coons at 5 months

Nite Ch O Breathless Blue Tree Dragon
Treeing his own wild coon at 6 months old.

Dogs living
Overton"s Breathless blue Julia. Bill Bird owner
Dual Champion Uchtman So Blue Lumber 6yrs
Owned by Cody Stader in Indiana
Dual Grand Overton's Breathless Blue Maggie
Present Owned by Luke Wood in Okalhoma

Dall Haden and Bobby Hayes have been a big part of my breeding of my hounds also Bill Bird for help keeping it going.

*All my dogs are old Ucthman Hawk and Scout breeding with some Smokey River Chief and Diamond Jim.
573-228-3169
Kandy off Bojangles and Grand Nite ch PKC CH Redstick Ann. Super fast track dog good tree dog loud. co owner with Earl Howell Queen of Hunt at Fall Round Up 2019 at 2 years old.

Overton"s Breathless Blue Lincoln
Overton"s Breathless Blue Ava.

Posted by southernthunder on 11-08-2018 05:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ELMO OVERTON
We all have our preferences on what we like about a line of dogs and what we think will take us to the top. Yes promote what you think is best and breed for a better dog.
Unfortunately we all have blinders on at times and that is what keeps us from forming the blues that my take us over the top.
Just take a look at the historical reproduction list. I bet you will find dogs that have made it high in the world from those studs or related.
All lines of hounds are represented in some form or fashion. All I know is if you don't compete you can't win.
Can you name the blues that made it to the final cast? Now what were they out of?

I know that Ron Taylor has been in the final cast with Son, but may have done it with Dancer also Levi as well. Troy Sheffield and Echo II was in the final cast. John Gill and Ginger was also in the final cast and placed 2nd. All of these hounds are from different lines.

__________________
Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels

HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
2015 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPION
2015 PURINA RACE BREED CHAMPION
2013, 2014, 2015 BBOA ZONE 7 KING OF HUNT, HIGH SCORE, DOUBLE CAST WINNER
2015 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITECH BLUETICK
2015 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2015 AUTUMN OAKS BBOA / BBCHA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 WINTER CLASSIC DOUBLE CAST WINNER PURINA POINTS EVENT
2015 WINTER CLASSIC BBOA HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
2015 ARKANSAS STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 MISSOURI STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 KENTUCKY STATE PURINA CONTENDER CAST WINNER
2015 INDIANA STATE PURINA CONTEDER CAST WINNER
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA TEXAS STATE CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 BBOA / WESTERN ENGLISH SHOOTOUT DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
2015 BBOA ZONE 7 HOUND OF THE YEAR
2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
2015 BBOA NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL CAST WINNER / 1ST RUNNER UP
2015 ELBERT VAUGHN MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BILL JACKSON MEMORIAL CHAMPION
2015 BOOMER SOONER CLASSIC CHAMPION
2015 WESTERN ENGLISH SPRING CLASSIS CAST WINNER
2015 OKLAHOMA STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP CAST WINNER
2015 BLUETICK CHALLENGE CHAMPION
2015 BBOA OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION / DOUBLE CAST WINNER / HIGH SCORE / KING OF HUNT
2015 UKC WORLD HUNT CAST WINNER
2016 PURINA NATIONALS CAST WINNER / BREED CHAMPION / HIGH SCORING BLUETICK
5 Time World Qualifier and 3 Peat Zone Champion
Too many wins to list them all

Jesus is Lord!

Posted by Richard Edinger on 11-08-2018 05:15 PM:

WHY

Big bawl mouth, long eared syndrome.

__________________
Thanks , Warren. for Smokey River Blueticks

Posted by ELMO OVERTON on 11-08-2018 06:15 PM:

Spring Hill Jaggs, Salt Fork Blue Scooter, Droop Jr. I'm thinking Smokey River Hoss but not sure on that one. All different lines.

Posted by randyar on 11-09-2018 12:05 AM:

Smokey River Hoss

Hoss 2 place I think 1992 or 1993. One of the best females I ever owned out of him she was black white ticked up. But most people would not use him because he was black white ticked up. Shame a lot of people us color instead of ability.

Posted by randyar on 11-09-2018 12:05 AM:

Smokey River Hoss

Posted by bluetick250 on 11-09-2018 01:44 AM:

It is sad but we just keep breeding same stuff same lines yeah them dogs got close but still missing something if the stuff wasn’t good enough then what makes it good enough now I’m no expert or think to be u guys talking about lines from years ago what have we bred in them to make them better

__________________
Brandon

Posted by bluetick250 on 11-09-2018 01:47 AM:

Elmo them dogs that were in the finals did they win no right they all are probably very nice hounds y did they get beat we all are missing something

__________________
Brandon

Posted by ELMO OVERTON on 11-09-2018 03:02 AM:

Good dog, good handlers and a little luck or breaks sure doesn't hurt. More blues have made the top twenty than I can ever remember. In the last few years. The blue are getting there.

Posted by everett on 11-09-2018 08:08 PM:

Re: Smokey River Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by randyar
Hoss 2 place I think 1992 or 1993. One of the best females I ever owned out of him she was black white ticked up. But most people would not use him because he was black white ticked up. Shame a lot of people us color instead of ability.

Amen to that, I have sold thea few pups over the years and the main question is are they going to be dark blue, I likely be x dark blue, but I prefer ability first, I do believe we should maintain a standard for sure, but should not be our # 1 priority.... Gerald

__________________
Gerald Everett/ Mad Dog South Central
[870] 820-4065
B.O.S.S. Vice President
Blueticks of the Southern States

TEAM MAD DOG "Hunt Hard Hunt Offten"
IN REMEMBRANCE OF MAD DOG TIM VAUGHN

GRNITECH pr' MAD DOG ANTi UP JOKER co winner of the all blue world championship, Sire of 2014 UKC world hunt high scoring Bluetick male(Grnitech pr' Walz Coontree Joker)

GRNITECH pr' Mad Dog coon Poppin
Wacko (Shellly) 2014 BBOA Arkansas State Hunt Queen of Hunt High scoring Grntch.
2015 zone 7 championship Queen of hunt

Grnitech Grch pr' Mad Dog Hey Jude 2008 National Bluetick Days Queen of hunt, 2013 ACHA Little world hunt 5th place overall.

pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Rhino (Astro x Jude)

Pr' Mad Dog Two Gun Doll Baby ( Astro x Shelly)
Critter Light co. Owner/Dealer

Posted by everett on 11-09-2018 08:08 PM:

Re: Smokey River Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by randyar
Hoss 2 place I think 1992 or 1993. One of the best females I ever owned out of him she was black white ticked up. But most people would not use him because he was black white ticked up. Shame a lot of people us color instead of ability.

Posted by ov_blues on 11-09-2018 10:51 PM:

Re: Re: Smokey River Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by everett
Amen to that, I have sold thea few pups over the years and the main question is are they going to be dark blue, I likely be x dark blue, but I prefer ability first, I do believe we should maintain a standard for sure, but should not be our # 1 priority.... Gerald

When someone calls me about a pup they usually ask about color and a picture before they ask about ability and pedigree of the parents. Aggravates me to be honest.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by ov_blues on 11-09-2018 10:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bluetick250
It is sad but we just keep breeding same stuff same lines yeah them dogs got close but still missing something if the stuff wasn’t good enough then what makes it good enough now I’m no expert or think to be u guys talking about lines from years ago what have we bred in them to make them better

What else are we supposed to use? I’d rather breed with dogs that got close to winning it all than to go somewhere else and hope for a miracle. If there is something else out there bloodline wise in a blue hide that can win in the big hunts I’m sure the word would get out at some point. The Walker guys have stacked their dogs pedigrees with proven reproducers and are winning major hunts with plenty of cash and trucks won to show me they aren’t completely off base in their breeding theory’s. Their formula is to not line breed heavily on one line but to mix the lines keying on dominant reproducers regardless of line. Ability first and then try to strengthen weak areas. Sounds like a good plan to me.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by novicane65 on 11-10-2018 10:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
What else are we supposed to use? I’d rather breed with dogs that got close to winning it all than to go somewhere else and hope for a miracle. If there is something else out there bloodline wise in a blue hide that can win in the big hunts I’m sure the word would get out at some point. The Walker guys have stacked their dogs pedigrees with proven reproducers and are winning major hunts with plenty of cash and trucks won to show me they aren’t completely off base in their breeding theory’s. Their formula is to not line breed heavily on one line but to mix the lines keying on dominant reproducers regardless of line. Ability first and then try to strengthen weak areas. Sounds like a good plan to me.

Yes and in walkers if you need more of anything all's you need to do is ask where to get it. In blueticks its not that easy. Too many narrow minded like individuals imho. Guys won't go outside of a bloodline. And no one really knows where to get more of any traits needed. That's the big difference.

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Posted by Drummerblue2 on 11-10-2018 10:44 PM:

Team work

I think there is blood lines out there that has the tools to go all the way we just need some old boy's that will put the time in the woods and go inter ol blue they can't win if they don't get the opportunity

__________________
Jason henson

Posted by V. Cannon on 11-11-2018 12:49 AM:

There’s several things that has stopped the blue dogs from improving at the same rate as the other hound breeds.
I have visited with a lot of breeders that was so committed to a certain line or a dog in a bloodline that their dogs produced lessor quaility dogs each generation.
The best hunters will usually have the best dogs. When more breeders start breeding with performance the primary factor that determines choice of the stud I think more good hunters will start following blue dogs.

Posted by tjll on 11-12-2018 12:02 AM:

blue

The curly Jane female got in at a elite shootout in texas she can compete her new owner will give her that chance one problem is some of the good ones done get a real chance at larger events

Posted by Darren Hollis on 11-12-2018 12:25 AM:

Curly Jane

I bred Curly Janes sire GrNtCh PR Mose Pink Floyd to two GrNtCh gyps in the last two weeks and plan to cross him on my personal females. Hopefully pups get in hunters hands and make hounds that will compete!

__________________
SOUTHERN BLUETICK KENNEL (205-412-2122)

HOME OF:
GrChGrNtCh PR Southern Blue S&H’s Goose (Sparks&Hollis)
GrChGrNtCh PR Southern Blue Hardwood Cotton
GrNtCh PR Mose's Pink Floyd ( Co-Owned with Scott V)
Ch GrNtCh PR Frost Hollow Strap
ChNtCh PR Southern Blue Hardwood Dolly
ChGrNtCh PR Southern Blue Spanky ( Hollis & Hollis)
PR Southern Blue Cobb (NtChCh Uchtmans Andy x Ratliffs Blue Tell)
PR Southern Blue Betsy (Goose x Dual Grand Cotton)
(REST IN PEACE)
GrNtChGrCh PR Southern Blue Moonshine
GrNtChGrCh PR Southern Blue Frostbite
NtChGrCh PR Southern Blue Queen
NtChGrCh PR Blue Eyes Blue Jessie
NtCh PR Southern Frost Hollow Blue Bell(BB)
NtCh PR Southern Blue Hammer
NtCh PR Hollis' Southern Blue Maggie
NtCh PR Hollis' Bull Mtn. Pearl
GrCh PR Southern Blue Jet
PR Southern Blue Sam
PR Southern Blue Rattler
GrChGrNtCh PR Lovell’s Smokey River Blue Ann

Posted by Ron Moore on 11-13-2018 01:45 PM:

Dog, Handler, Situation....

There have been many Blues in the top. Things have been said about jealousy, line blindness, coloration, etc.... The dog is just part of the equation. Hunt placement, terrain, guide, judge, GOOD handler, weather, LUCK and so many other things that come into play. Russ Downing placed Toad second in the world (I believe) and he was all blue. Do you know how many folks wouldn't breed to an all blue male regardless of ability even though it's perfectly fine with the UKC rules. Blindness! That being said, a good dog without a top handler is no good and visa-versa. Quality blue dogs are out there. How many times have you been in a hunt and say, I know I had the better dog but that dang other handler beat me. Why, he/she knows the rule book from top to bottom, inside out. Ron Taylor once told me, "when everyone is on the couch figuring out how to win the next hunt, I'm in the woods doing my homework." A lot to be learned from that statement! There's a blue dog out there right now that can win the world, the right combination has to be put together. JMO.

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