UKC Forums - Let's Discuss Performance Program

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-- Let's Discuss Performance Program (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928506868)

Posted by yadkintar on 07-21-2018 02:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I may wrong but i doesn't cost UKC any, just the fund. They keep 10% to manage the fund

Plus interest and when they write you a check they might write it off as a business expense.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 07-21-2018 02:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
I may wrong but i doesn't cost UKC any just, the fund. They keep 10% to manage the fund

then it cost the fund. idk either. anyway i like my money just like everyone else but under $25 and it cost whoever more than it's worth.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-21-2018 03:32 PM:

I don’t care what it cost if you owe me $25 then pay me LOL.

Mr Tim.

Posted by tjll on 07-21-2018 04:25 PM:

performance

Every post has some value in it but before stud owners complain too much remember you get free advertising every day on the stud dog page that more than pays for the yearly fees imo that advertising would cost you several thousand dollars per year

Posted by Craig Cooper on 07-21-2018 05:11 PM:

If you are the breeder of a performance eligible litter then just pay the litter up when you send in the paperwork for the litter registration. That would help increase the money going into the program. I would love to know the percentage of pups eligible for the performance program that are actually paid up.

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 07-21-2018 06:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Craig Cooper
If you are the breeder of a performance eligible litter then just pay the litter up when you send in the paperwork for the litter registration. That would help increase the money going into the program. I would love to know the percentage of pups eligible for the performance program that are actually paid up.

Personally I think this should be mandatory for a performance pup. I think the litter should have to be paid in full or they aren’t performance pups.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by Dogwhisper on 07-21-2018 07:13 PM:

Alriiiiiighty, breeder pays up the litter.....breeder get 25% ....instead of 10% !

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-21-2018 07:34 PM:

Just add it to the pup price.

Mr Tim.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 07-21-2018 07:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Just add it to the pup price.

Mr Tim.

25% each yr. for the life ...or a one time pup upcharge....hmmmmm !
I'll take 25%

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-21-2018 08:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
25% each yr. for the life ...or a one time pup upcharge....hmmmmm !
I'll take 25%

Me Too.

Mr Tim.

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-22-2018 01:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
It don't cost anyone to not pay out 50$ or less? It's costing the guy not getting it, 50$. I'm sorry but if someone owes me money, give it to me

What they should have done from the beginning was require you to earn at least an entire point to recieve a check.

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Posted by tjll on 07-23-2018 05:05 AM:

dogs

How many dogs are in the performance sire program in 2018

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 07-23-2018 08:09 AM:

Re: dogs

quote:
Originally posted by tjll
How many dogs are in the performance sire program in 2018

according to the UKC web site there are 705 sires enrolled in the program as of today 7/23/2018 for 2018

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Posted by shane_atchison on 07-23-2018 02:04 PM:

$150 year to Performance a sire would add a chunk to the pot. A couple hundred could drop outta the program and the fund would still be money ahead. Has there been an increase to Sires since the beginning??

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 07-23-2018 02:42 PM:

Has there been an increase to Sires since the beginning?? [/B][/QUOTE]

don't know how many were in the program to start, but according to the UKC web site there were 896 sires entered in 2017, and now--2018 there are 705--but there is still time to get a sire signed up for 2018. so right now there are 191 less than last year

Posted by berger on 07-23-2018 02:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Personally I think this should be mandatory for a performance pup. I think the litter should have to be paid in full or they aren’t performance pups.

That is the one of change's they should make. The other is let Gr Nt and Nt ch draw out together at the local hunts as long as there isn't any breed sectional or State hunt affiliated with it just a local UKC hunt by the club. This program wasn't implemented for big dollars it was implemented to give back some of the hunters expense, let the little guy play and keep the Gr Nt coming and hunting at the local hunts.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 07-23-2018 03:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
Has there been an increase to Sires since the beginning??

don't know how many were in the program to start, but according to the UKC web site there were 896 sires entered in 2017, and now--2018 there are 705--but there is still time to get a sire signed up for 2018. so right now there are 191 less than last year [/B][/QUOTE] I was referring to fee increases, but I know sire numbers have dropped considerably.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-23-2018 04:02 PM:

It is easy to make generalizations but how do you know just how many Sire owners would opt out if you increase the fee $50 or $100 or $150? It is almost impossible to know.

And if you start letting Gr Nt's hunt with Nt Ch's that might increase the #of Gr Nt's but it might also decrease the # of Nt Ch's entered. You don't really know. UKC already has the mini slam format where Nt Ch's hunt with Gr Nt's. And the winner also gets an immediate $$ payback that night in addition to points towards a title. Actually the mini slam format includes a lot of the suggestions being made here. But club's are not taking advantage of this format and scheduling mini slam hunts. I wonder why that is?

Here is a suggestion... start keeping track of Mini Slam earnings and post the leaders on the interweb. And maybe make them open to Performance eligible dogs only. UKC could then have a year end hunt for Mini Slam leaders.

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-23-2018 04:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It is easy to make generalizations but how do you know just how many Sire owners would opt out if you increase the fee $50 or $100 or $150? It is almost impossible to know.

Agreed, but like i said if a couple hundred opt out the fund will still be several thousand ahead.

I understand wanting to give Grandnights something to compete in at the local level, but fixing the Nite champ title by requiring more hunt or cast wins is a better option.

Mini slams arent something that will help attendance, especially at the smaller clubs. They have to much competition from state races, truck tickets, added money hunts, etc..

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 07-23-2018 04:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It is easy to make generalizations but how do you know just how many Sire owners would opt out if you increase the fee $50 or $100 or $150? It is almost impossible to know.

Actually the mini slam format includes a lot of the suggestions being made here. But club's are not taking advantage of this format and scheduling mini slam hunts. I wonder why that is?

I had bowed out of this discussion but this begs a comment.
As to Mini Slams....Speaking from our own clubs experience and declining to hold them again.
We actually made more return on our efforts of holding a regular event than the Mini Slam.The entrants were better off but, the club was not.
(I would like to remind what I feel was a forgotten change.Clubs can award money instead of trophies at any event... not just slams.)
It is easy to say increase the cost for this or that.
But in the long run it may ultimately decrease participation in the program. It comes down to feeding the family or play with the dogs.The diehards won't blink but the casual hunters that I pretty sure are the majority will decrease in participation.

I personally do not attend hunts as I once did.The only reason I paid my pups up was to increase the opportunity to sell them at a future time to prospective buyers.I already made my view on limiting the age .I will never pay up a performance pup again .

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 07-23-2018 04:43 PM:

Richard you make a good point that changes would affect some and how would we know. Well the situation is that if UKC had good numbers on the program they could put a team together and evaluate those numbers and come up with a good idea what those numbers would be.

The other side of the coin is we come on here with enough information, just to be dangerous and bicker with one another for weeks filling up pages on the message boards. When the facts is needed for answers.

UKC should be able to push a couple buttons and know exactly how many performance sires there are in the program that never breed a female. A graph on when matings took place and how many of the Sires were enrolled before they bred females and how many were enrolled with a penalty just to breed one litter. All that information could point out what change (like fee for single breeding) or other changes would affect the program. Same with when pups are registered. Evaluate the before 6 months and the 6-12 months and the numbers that are not ever put in the program. A study of why and when they are registered would give an opinion on changes needed to capture more pups into the program. Without facts we really don't have any justification for all our ideas.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-23-2018 05:07 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
...... Without facts we really don't have any justification for all our ideas....

But Mr Conkey, that sure doesn't stop us from giving our ideas freely. Knowing Mr Gingerich, I am sure that he is crunching all of those numbers and stuying just what the impact of any changes might be. But all of that takes a lot of thought and time and "what if" scenarios. And I wonder if he really has a truly knowledgeable team? Isn't he the only one?

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-23-2018 05:31 PM:

Todd or Allen posted the numbers of pups from Performance sires that were paid up and the % was very small.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 07-23-2018 05:55 PM:

Re: .

UKC should be able to push a couple buttons and know exactly how many performance sires there are in the program that never breed a female. A graph on when matings took place and how many of the Sires were enrolled before they bred females and how many were enrolled with a penalty just to breed one litter. All that information could point out what change (like fee for single breeding).....so your advocateing that UKC P.P.
penelize the breeder for a single breeding during that enrolled yr.....why ?
I don't understand that logic .

Posted by pamjohnson on 07-23-2018 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
$150 year to Performance a sire would add a chunk to the pot. A couple hundred could drop outta the program and the fund would still be money ahead. Has there been an increase to Sires since the beginning??

some how i can't imagine less participation in the program is really the thing to shoot for. less sires paid up next thing u know less pups eligible. i'm already to cheap to gamble the money away part of the time.

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