UKC Forums - New rule?????

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-- New rule????? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928442868)

Posted by ov_blues on 02-12-2016 04:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pabeagler
Using judges who have completed rule seminars or webinars would eliminate alot of the judging errors , and if a judges rulings are found to be erroneous by m.o.h 3 times , that judge should be required to re test.

Master of Hounds and Judges are both picked from clubs for their knowledge of the rules and their integrity, or at least should be. The only difference is that a MOH has to pass a super basic test of the rules, and apprentice under 3 MOH's before getting their license. Getting a MOH license doesn't really mean that the MOH has been more educated on the rules than the majority of the handlers at most local UKC events. Not saying that they don't know more than some, but the MOH hasn't had any special training in order to get the MOH license.

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Posted by sleepy head on 02-12-2016 05:50 PM:

Friday night at the world hunt, your a non hunting judge, all dogs are handled at the same tree, the tree puts 3 dogs over the minus limit, 1 has plus points, 106 minutes have been used, 15 minute walk to trucks. Is the hunt over?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-12-2016 06:36 PM:

You tally up the score, tell everyone what their score is, inform the other handlers that they are scratched, then start walking and tell the handler of the dog that is left to let you know when he is far enough from the tree so that his dog won't go back to cut his dog loose again. It is up to him.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-12-2016 08:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Friday night at the world hunt, your a non hunting judge, all dogs are handled at the same tree, the tree puts 3 dogs over the minus limit, 1 has plus points, 106 minutes have been used, 15 minute walk to trucks. Is the hunt over?

Far as I am concerned it is.

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Posted by shadinc on 02-12-2016 08:38 PM:

What do you do if the guide says, "It's 20 minutes to the truck, lets walk it out." And you get to the truck in 10 minutes. Do you ride the last ten out in the truck?

Posted by JiM on 02-12-2016 09:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
What do you do if the guide says, "It's 20 minutes to the truck, lets walk it out." And you get to the truck in 10 minutes. Do you ride the last ten out in the truck?

Here's tha thing, say you got the cast win wrapped up, heck,you might be the only dog left. So you walk out the 20 minutes. All it takes is one person to tell the MOH that your cast didn't hunt the last 20 and your win just went down the crapper. But much worse than that, you just signed a fraudulent scorecard. Because when you signed that card, you certified that the cast hunted 120 minutes. Wanna know the penalty for signing a fraudulent scorecard?

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Posted by joey on 02-12-2016 09:20 PM:

Its no different than circling a tree that you know is slick but you missed a coon one time in a tree just like that. I have heard that one a hundred times but rules are rules for a reason. Its all in what your morals will let you live with. If I'm getting beat and cant come back then I'm done and I cant say I would make some one cut loose with a few minutes left on the clock. However if I'm the one left and they want me to, thats fine too.

This argument really comes down to taking things to the extreme. If there is 20 minuets left he needs to cut loose or even 10 but making a man cut with 2 minuets left in a cast when no one can beat them is a little extreme. We pulled off a tree one night with no hope of anyone catching me. The closest guy to me made me cut with 30 seconds left on the clock. Thats just being a jerk. On the other hand a guy wanting to walk out 20 minuets when he is competing against other cast for placement isn't right either. So its all in what you can live with. This I do know I have seen cast taken away in UKC when the time was walked out and I have seen money have to be paid back in the other KC when it was done. So when you do it you are leaving your self open.

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Posted by Surveyor on 02-12-2016 09:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Here's tha thing, say you got the cast win wrapped up, heck,you might be the only dog left. So you walk out the 20 minutes. All it takes is one person to tell the MOH that your cast didn't hunt the last 20 and your win just went down the crapper. But much worse than that, you just signed a fraudulent scorecard. Because when you signed that card, you certified that the cast hunted 120 minutes. Wanna know the penalty for signing a fraudulent scorecard?

If the handler that tells the MOH that the cast didn't hunt exactly 120 minutes, didn't question the cast decision at the time they decided to call it quits then the MOH has no question to rule on.

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Posted by Ron Jackson on 02-12-2016 09:45 PM:

Thank you michale. I am hoping to start entering some hunts again soon. Seems like keeping all these interpretations of the rules may just be more than this ol hunter was hoping to deel with. We will see how it goes next weekend at Yale Ohio.

Posted by joey on 02-12-2016 09:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
If the handler that tells the MOH that the cast didn't hunt exactly 120 minutes, didn't question the cast decision at the time they decided to call it quits then the MOH has no question to rule on.

Its not a question its a report of misconduct.

Posted by Surveyor on 02-12-2016 10:06 PM:

Yea, I guess that's true, but as a handler if you don't like a call or decision you should question it right then and there. Ive never saw a cast say "let's just walk the remaining time out" and do that, where everyone wasn't unanamously in favor of doing just that. Maybe there needs to be some language written into a rule to allow some lee way because it's pretty obvious it doesn't make any sense to recast dogs for 15 seconds when there is no possible way it will change the out come of the cast. Also in the case of just one dog remaining in a cast with a couple minutes left in rugged terrain, how many fellow cast members are you going to get to stay with you for that?

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-12-2016 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
Yea, I guess that's true, but as a handler if you don't like a call or decision you should question it right then and there. Ive never saw a cast say "let's just walk the remaining time out" and do that, where everyone wasn't unanamously in favor of doing just that. Maybe there needs to be some language written into a rule to allow some lee way because it's pretty obvious it doesn't make any sense to recast dogs for 15 seconds when there is no possible way it will change the out come of the cast. Also in the case of just one dog remaining in a cast with a couple minutes left in rugged terrain, how many fellow cast members are you going to get to stay with you for that?

You are preaching to the choir, some of these guys will try to wine a cry about it to try and get you scratched b/c you didn't turn loose with 30 seconds left in hunt time. You go to enough hunts you run into ppl like that always looking for a way to try and get your scratched for ridiculous things.

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Posted by novicane65 on 02-12-2016 10:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
You are preaching to the choir, some of these guys just dog get it and will try to wine a cry about it to try and get you scratched b/c you didn't turn loose with 30 seconds left in hunt time. You go to enough hunts you run into ppl like that always looking for a way to try and get your scratched for ridiculous things.

I can understand walking the last 5 or fewer minutes. But not 20 like in the original post. In 20 minutes worth of hunt time how many minus points can one loose? I'd be in the same boat as msinc I guess. Not saying I'm right or wrong. Just saying a lot can happen in last few minutes of the hunt.

Posted by joey on 02-12-2016 10:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
Yea, I guess that's true, but as a handler if you don't like a call or decision you should question it right then and there. Ive never saw a cast say "let's just walk the remaining time out" and do that, where everyone wasn't unanamously in favor of doing just that. Maybe there needs to be some language written into a rule to allow some lee way because it's pretty obvious it doesn't make any sense to recast dogs for 15 seconds when there is no possible way it will change the out come of the cast. Also in the case of just one dog remaining in a cast with a couple minutes left in rugged terrain, how many fellow cast members are you going to get to stay with you for that?

Thats not what I have seen. It wasn't the guys in the cast reporting it. Its the guy one of the cast members was talking to back at the club house. The same guy that needed that cast scratched to get placed. A couple of minuites is one thing 20 minuits is another. The question though is where do you draw the line and who makes that desision?

Posted by JiM on 02-12-2016 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
If the handler that tells the MOH that the cast didn't hunt exactly 120 minutes, didn't question the cast decision at the time they decided to call it quits then the MOH has no question to rule on.

I'm afraid you are 100% wrong about that.

Posted by JiM on 02-12-2016 11:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Thats not what I have seen. It wasn't the guys in the cast reporting it. Its the guy one of the cast members was talking to back at the club house. The same guy that needed that cast scratched to get placed. A couple of minuites is one thing 20 minuits is another. The question though is where do you draw the line and who makes that desision?

Exactly.
I'm not saying do it / don't do it. My only intention here is to bring awareness to what you are letting yourself in for when you walk off time and sign that card.

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-12-2016 11:35 PM:

Some folk would be really surprised at what all actually does happen on lots of these hunts. All kc's.

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Posted by JiM on 02-12-2016 11:42 PM:

Some would but prolly most wouldn't!

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-12-2016 11:57 PM:

Its a totally different goody goody attitude on here than I see in the woods. Thats a fact.

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Posted by JiM on 02-12-2016 11:58 PM:

Purty much nothing on here reflects how it is in the woods. Thank God........

Posted by sleepy head on 02-13-2016 12:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Purty much nothing on here reflects how it is in the woods. Thank God........

Lol thats a good one,

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-13-2016 12:08 AM:

Im asking whole clubhouse at our April hunt who they voting for lol. We had one last Fri sign up. His name was Already something Donald Trump lol.

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Posted by wbond on 02-13-2016 04:00 AM:

Boy some of you boys should have been around back when we had 3 hour hunts I have seen a lot happen in that last hour from your guide running out of places to hunt to re hunting ground you had already hunted walking dogs on the lead with time in to try and get to a hollow you hadn't been in already sometimes it was a struggle when they went to 2 hours it helped a lot as we all know there are less places to hunt all the time but now with all the time outs you have for one thing or another they might have as well left it 3 hours because than you had a lot rest reasons to call time out

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-13-2016 01:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Some folk would be really surprised at what all actually does happen on lots of these hunts. All kc's.

Are you trying to say that a lot of these guys posting don't even comp hunt anymore?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-13-2016 02:07 PM:

I still hunt in them I just get my butt beat more than I used to lol ! I don't know but I can tell you the reason a lot of people claim they don't have enough hunting is because the style of dog they are hunting I just buried one that on her nights would just blow out of the world on you probly passed up 10 coons on the way only thing she found was a front bumper of a fast moving car you want to find out somthing when they blow out like that turn them around and send them back the way they came show you the all the coons they went past !!

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