UKC Forums - Those Maintaining "old blood"

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-11-2014 06:09 PM:

I may be looking for a mythical beast... maybe what I remember is really a unicorn, and never existed. But here's what I'm trying to say, said another way. And Joe is probably on the right track.

Many of us used to hunt dogs that hunted close. They treed coon, and if they didn't get struck in 5-10 minutes, "checked back in". Now that was there "fault" in that, in many places where we hunted, a dog that hunted hard and had a good nose, had absolutely no reason to NOT get struck in 5-10 minutes. We hunted in way too much coon, for that not to happen!

Competition hunts involved four dogs being turned loose, one of them by random chance getting struck quickly (they simply headed in the right direction) and the other three piling on, and together all four getting treed with the coon!

That is not the type of dog I'm talking about!

Then in the 90s I and other stumbled upon a type of dog (I'll give credit to a pup I was given, by Dick Brothers) that started early, was very tree minded, and for some reason didn't care what the other dogs did! You pointed them in a direction, and they headed that way regardless of what the other dogs did, got struck on their own and treed their own coon (near or far). Meanwhile the other three got treed together and split their tree points. Your dog was maybe a 2nd or 3rd strike dog, but repeatedly got first tree by themselves. The other three dogs cannibalized the splitting of first, second and third tree, and you ultimately out-scored them, and won consistently.

That's the dog I'm talking about! They weren't perfect but they didn't really pass up coon (in the direction they chose), and at the same time, independent.

Then I got out of hunting for several years, and something strange happened. When I got back into it, everyone had a tree-minded, independent dog. But they weren't just tree-minded and independent. They were tree crazy and way too high strung. They pass up all the close coon, paying attention to one another when they're horse-racing through the country, and then purposefully ignoring one another when one gets struck. Often times pushing themselves even deeper, in a need to get their own coon.

It's ironic... they care about one another, and are willing to join in, when they're being foolish, but then ignore one another when one actually decides to do their job!

The modern competition dog racks up way more points than we used to. But I would argue that a dog that was willing to consistently get that 225, 50 yards from the truck (which is easily done in the regions that you see these high scores), while the other dogs waste 5 minutes "getting deep", would rack up even higher scores! Basically take the independence and tree-mindedness, and get rid of the high-strung and jealousy traits. Have a dog that is willing to WALK into the woods, get struck and get treed with the meat, regardless of what everything else does, is that possible???

It would mean NOT breeding to the dog that is described as having "drive" and "will get deep"! The ones described as "independent" but are really "jealous" and as Joe pointed out, have to be "loud" or you would never hear them a mile away!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-11-2014 06:12 PM:

Joe is probably right... it was seemingly a contradiction, because people bred "jealous" dogs in an attempt to get "independent" dogs. They bred to "high strung" dogs in an attempt to get a dog with "drive" that wouldn't check back in before getting struck. They bred to "babblers" under the false assumption that they had a "nose".

As expected and as is human nature throughout history, we made less thoughtful decisions, and ended up with only half of what we were looking for! Or at least that's my opinion...

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by elvis on 01-13-2014 10:42 PM:

don't put too much stock in what those "oldtime" papers say.

I believe it was a common practice to claim every good dog you got your hands on was out of your own top stud dog.

dna cleaned up most of that garbage.

Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-14-2014 12:16 AM:

I'm sure that was an issue in some cases, but I for one, am not talking about any particular blood line or stud, just the types of dogs that were emerging in the 90s compared to many of the maniacs we have out there today.

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by honalieh on 01-14-2014 03:33 AM:

Old Blood-New Blood

I see this debate often. I was there then. I'm here now.

I hunted in the 1970's.
I hunted in the 1980's.
I hunted in the 1990's.
I hunted in the 2000's.
I'm hunting in the 2010's.

I can't take either side of the old blood and new blood debate. That said, I can make a few observations.

In the 1970's, and into the 1980's, hide prices were high, and emphasis was on coon hides. The competition hunts were a sideline to kill season. When kill season was out, some would hunt their coondogs in competition. When hide prices dropped, many quit coonhunting altogether.

Times change. Today's coonhunting is not the same as yesteryears coonhunting. In the 70's and 80's, we killed coon. Now, we actually FEED coon, to make it easier to run and tree them. Who, from back then, would have ever believed this?

Competition Hunting. Back then, an automatic strike dog was an advantage (100-100 rules). Bred to the rules. One particular line of dogs was noted for this. Then, they changed the tree rules. Now, we have another type of "bred-to-the-rules-dog". The new type of bred-to-the-rules dog is the one that: : "If they can't get treed 1st, get split. They get 1st tree points, even though they weren't the 1st to get treed." So now, a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th tree dog gets the same tree points as a 1st tree dog, providing they split from the 1st tree dog! Now, we have dogs bred to these rules. I'm not a fan of either type of the above mentioned dogs.

With a "real" coondog, the game is very simple. Get Struck! Get Treed! Have The Meat! Repeat!!! I like a good locate. I like for them to tree hard. I like for them to listen and handle well. If I'm climbing over, and crawling under cut-over timber and busting through greenbriars and grapevines to get to my dog, he/she better have the meat.

Old Blood-New Blood? Irrelevant! It's about COONDOGS, and what you expect and demand. "Real" COONDOGS do still exist!

Posted by l.lyle on 01-14-2014 04:20 AM:

Re: Old Blood-New Blood

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh
I see this debate often. I was there then. I'm here now.

I hunted in the 1970's.
I hunted in the 1980's.
I hunted in the 1990's.
I hunted in the 2000's.
I'm hunting in the 2010's.

I can't take either side of the old blood and new blood debate. That said, I can make a few observations.

In the 1970's, and into the 1980's, hide prices were high, and emphasis was on coon hides. The competition hunts were a sideline to kill season. When kill season was out, some would hunt their coondogs in competition. When hide prices dropped, many quit coonhunting altogether.

Times change. Today's coonhunting is not the same as yesteryears coonhunting. In the 70's and 80's, we killed coon. Now, we actually FEED coon, to make it easier to run and tree them. Who, from back then, would have ever believed this?

Competition Hunting. Back then, an automatic strike dog was an advantage (100-100 rules). Bred to the rules. One particular line of dogs was noted for this. Then, they changed the tree rules. Now, we have another type of "bred-to-the-rules-dog". The new type of bred-to-the-rules dog is the one that: : "If they can't get treed 1st, get split. They get 1st tree points, even though they weren't the 1st to get treed." So now, a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th tree dog gets the same tree points as a 1st tree dog, providing they split from the 1st tree dog! Now, we have dogs bred to these rules. I'm not a fan of either type of the above mentioned dogs.

With a "real" coondog, the game is very simple. Get Struck! Get Treed! Have The Meat! Repeat!!! I like a good locate. I like for them to tree hard. I like for them to listen and handle well. If I'm climbing over, and crawling under cut-over timber and busting through greenbriars and grapevines to get to my dog, he/she better have the meat.

Old Blood-New Blood? Irrelevant! It's about COONDOGS, and what you expect and demand. "Real" COONDOGS do still exist!

X2 on all of that.
By the 90's I decided to change brands because of the "bred-to-the-rules" type of dogs plus the fact that many big claim to fame was "early starting and finishing" and finished was about 25% accurate. Lots of them would pinch and facebark. When I send three dogs up a branch I don't want one going up the branch and two more splittiing across pine ridges.

Posted by groworg1 on 01-14-2014 11:47 AM:

x3 I remember my first coonhound he was born in 1972 !

Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-14-2014 02:46 PM:

Re: Old Blood-New Blood

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh

With a "real" coondog, the game is very simple. Get Struck! Get Treed! Have The Meat! Repeat!!! I like a good locate. I like for them to tree hard. I like for them to listen and handle well. If I'm climbing over, and crawling under cut-over timber and busting through greenbriars and grapevines to get to my dog, he/she better have the meat.

Totally agree with that assessment! So... where do I buy one of these real coon dogs. Because, although I raised them, trained them, and love them to death, my dogs are not always a "real coon dog"! They are buy themselves, they are in tough weather, but you put them with another dog, and they forget who they are!

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by elkrauskopf on 01-18-2014 10:07 PM:

Clarification

What is the papers comment suppose to mean ?

I am also interested to see where Pearl goes back to Finley River other than threw So Fork Mundar. I guess Spring Creek Preacher but I do not know.

__________________
Helping to preserve John Wade's Comanche line.

Posted by elkrauskopf on 01-18-2014 10:08 PM:

I also would love to hunt with Zig the next time I go to Jrs a may give you a call and we can go.

__________________
Helping to preserve John Wade's Comanche line.

Posted by Mike Knuckols on 01-19-2014 08:28 PM:

The best dog I ever followed was NTCH Cypress River Chance . He was out of Mark Whatleys GRNTCH Ready ( Walker ) from Linden Texas . Ready was a local bred dog that reproduced many good ones and they reproduced good ones and so on . This line seems to have disappeared . I let mine get old and Die without raising anything from him as my son got involved with baseball and went on to play in college so my hunting slowed . You didnt have to hunt these dogs to death . When I took him he treed coons a plenty . I agree some with the original poster and some with Mr Duemmer . I have found that no dog is gonna look good around me due to the remaining coon hunters have lost their hunting grounds and there are 20 people hunting the small public hunting grounds near me . There are coons but they sure dont move until late . I trap and stock woods with coons and as soon as someone learns I put some coons there there is a rush to that spot and the slobs shoot everything they tree or spot light . Needless to say Im investing a fortune in spots to hunt on private property . If You take these modern dogs to good woods they are more productive than the dogs of old . The only thing I see where they struggle is when coons are not down they struggle or dont possess the patience to hunt for a track and the slicks or squirrel hunting starts . Im hunting the Lipper, Cade, Stylish Clover, Hillbilly Mac stuff now with Sacket in there ( dont know if You can find anything without Sacket lol ) . Im happy but my dogs are 50% with the coon depending on where I go . If Mark reads this post call me if there is any of the good Ready stuff anywhere .

__________________
Mike Knuckols
Cold Traxx Kennels .com
"The Big Yummer "

Home of :
CH NITECH Whitemans Poison
GRCH NITECH Cold Traxx Extra Man
CH GRNITECH Kings Hardwood Ranger
UKC CH PKC CH CHKC CH Cold Traxx Man Child
GRNTCH PKC CH Hunt it off Bella
Cold Traxx Southern Honey
Cold Traxx Mattie
Cold Traxx Super Freak

Gone but never forgotten :
NITECH McFarlands Joe
Knuckols Hooker
NITECH Cypress River Chance
NITECH Cypress River Honey
NITECH Cypress River Princess
NITECH Newcombs Miss Molly
NITECH Wilsons Hardwood Ann
GRCH GRNTCH Paulding Forrest Bubba

Posted by Trinket clark on 01-21-2014 10:45 PM:

Future cross of some old blood.

Sire- Grntch Hardwood Whiner

.....Durbins Rambler (Lipper x Finley River)
Grntch Hardwood Whiner (Frozen Semen)
.....Rolling Hills Jane (Line Bred on Rolling Hills Dan)

Pups

.....Starkes Finley River Zig
Clark's Finley River Spot
..........Durbins Rambler (Lipper x Finley River)
.....Starkes Ramblin Jane
..........Rolling Hills Jane (Line Bred on Rolling Hills Dan)

Zig goes back to Gr. Nt. Ch. Finley River Dan 30 times in 7 generations.

Finley River Bred and will show you true Finley River traits on any cold,moonlit night with the frost as thick as a nickel.......COONDOG

--------------Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Finley River Blue Mtn. Lonnie
---------Dual Gr. Ch. Finley River Zoom
--------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Trap
------Finley River Country Hank
--------------After Dark Marty
---------King"s Dixie
--------------Braddock's Melody
Finley River Zig
----------------------------------Gr.Ch. Nt.Ch. Finley River Blue Mtn Lonnie
-----------------------------Gr.Ch. Finley River Bill
----------------------------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Trap
----------------------Gr.Ch. Pantry's Finley River Hobo
----------------------------------Dual Gr. Ch. Finley River Nite Hawk
-----------------------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Bitter
----------------------------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Cricket
--------------Gr. Ch. Cedar Creek Finley River Tom
---------Gaddow's Finley River Ty
----------------------Gr.Ch. Nt.Ch. Finley River Blue Mtn Lonnie
--------------Ch. Finley River Trap 2
----------------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Trap
------Gaddow's Finley River Ugg
----------------------Gr.Ch. Nt.Ch. Finley River Blue Mtn Lonnie
--------------Dual Gr. Ch. Finley River Zoom
----------------------Gr. Ch. Finley River Trap
---------Finley River Sis
----------------------Gr.Ch. Nt. Ch. Finley River Blue Mtn Lonnie
--------------Dual Ch. Finley River Becky
----------------------Nt. Ch. Water Mill Babe

__________________
Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale

~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

Posted by mike shannon on 01-21-2014 11:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
I line breed on the Hillbilly Mac blood and have had very good success. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Trying to maintain the traits that I like and work for me as well as others...

__________________
PKC CH GRANDNITECH SPLIT CREEK HISTORY BUDDY HTX (RIP)
NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY HANGOVER (RIP)
NITECH GRCH SHANNON'S HILLBILLY COOKIE HTX & PKC MONEY WON ( 3 times World Qualifier) (RIP)
NITECH GRCH HTX PR SHANNON'S HILLBILLY CHIEF 1 WIN FROM GRANDNITECH
PR SHANNON�S HILLBILLY MAXIE

If you can read this thank a TEACHER
If you can read this in English, thank a VETERAN

www.freewebs.com/shannonshowmekennels

United States Army Retired

Posted by Trinket clark on 01-22-2014 11:06 AM:

Hello Mr.Shannon

I don't have a lot of experience with hillbilly Mack Bred dogs, but the last cross we made has a shot of hillbilly Mack not to far back...through a female called Cavitts Hillbilly Misty...Which what I've gathered she was a super reproducer, but I have no idea what her hunting style was, what kind of nose she had etc..or more important what she threw in her pups..Maybe you can give me some insight on this female...thank you Sir.

Posted by mike shannon on 01-22-2014 02:11 PM:

I believe she was off GRNITECH Collins Hillbilly Mac Jr. A reproducer as well. I had a daughter off her her. Her daughter was a little tight on track drifted a track and got treed, very independent type of dogs. Usually average track mouth and extremely nice tree dogs that are accurate.

Posted by Trinket clark on 01-22-2014 10:34 PM:

Cavitts hillbilly misty

Thanks Mr. Shannon,
She sounds like a nice one , for sure ...Thanks again.

Posted by Robert Starke on 01-28-2014 07:49 PM:

For the record

Hi,

Several younger hunters don't know the pedigrees on their dogs
past 3 generations. They don't realize what dogs are farther back in the pedigree.

Evan, when you get to Jr.'s house, he will help you see what is behind Comanche, Jr., Pearl, and Ruby and how they are related to each other and my dogs.

Old Spanky has Cavitt's Hillbilly Misty in her pedigree.

Good Hunting,
Robert

__________________
Gr. Ch. UKC 1st place win Finley River Zig HTX
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Trap 2015 6th Annual Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Hunt and Show Ch female Overall female and Opposite Sex winner

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Wild Bill's Lill 21.05% reproduction record
Starke's Finley River Little Lill
Dual Gr. Ch. Wild Bill's Queen UKC RQE 112 winner 725+ 2006 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Rattler 2
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sadie
Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.TrackMan's Stone Cold HTX 2009 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2009 UKC World Hunt Zone 5 Hunt 14th place 2011 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Dual Ch. PKC Ch.Track Man's Mad Dash 2007 PKC SS qualifier 2008 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club Final Hunt winner 2012 MCHF Youth State Championship 2nd place 2012 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year
Gr. Ch. Finley River Cadillac Jane 2006 PKC Walker Days BOSF 2006 UKC RQE 74 Ch winner 2006 Trackman Invitational Queen of Show 2007 MCHF State Hunt Ch. female winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Cozi
Gr Nt Ch Starke's Finley River Super Man HTX 2017 Mid Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF Dick Gray Memorial Hunt High Scoring Dog and King of the Hunt 2018 Mid-Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF State Final Hunt the only double cast winner Final Four 3rd place winner 2019 BBCHA Sectional Madison, MO Gr Nt Ch/ Nt Ch Cast winner and High Scoring dog 2019 BBOA Richard Casey Tribute Hunt High Scoring Dog 750+ Thursday night and 825+ Friday night 2019 MCHF State Final Hunt Final Four 2nd place winner 2020 UKC World Hunt Qualifier at Marshall, MO March 21st

Dual Gr Ch Wild Bill's April 2016 UKC RQE 97 Ch winner

Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Jane 2006 UKC RQE 74 Gr Ch winner
Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Sugar 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Ch of Ch winner
Starke's Finley River Jake
Hoghill's Finley River Rip
Hoghill's Finley River Candie

Starke's Finley River Stubbie
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tuff
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Steel
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Fame

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Jane
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Ramblin Iron Man
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Bat Man

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tanna
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Lightning
Starke"s Finley River Ramblin John Henry
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Dan
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sister
Starke's Finley River Diamond
Starke's Finley River General Robert E Lee

Starke's Finley River Stormy
Clark's Finley River Spot PKC cast / money winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sage

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Paige

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Lou HTX passed times 1 Littermate of
PKC Gold Ch Gr Nt Ch Snitch, mother of Batman

Gr Ch. Starke's Finley River Ramblin Emma HTX
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sugar Boy
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Randi
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Little Emma

Gr.Ch. Starke's Table Rock Jewell 2007 RQE 5 BOSF winner 2007 MCHF State Hunt BOSF winner 2009 RQE 28 Best of Show female winner 2009 MCHF State Hunt Ch of Ch Female winner 2010 MCHF State Hunt Gr Ch winner and Queen of Show 2010 Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Queen of Show 2011 Gr Ch Louisiana State Championship 2012 NE Missouri Black & Tan Sectional Gr. Ch. female 2012 MCHF Spring Classic Gr Ch female 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch winner 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr Ch winner 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2012 UKC Current Top 10 2012 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year

Gr Ch Little Walnut Queen Bathsheba 2011 SWTWA BFOS and Queen of Show 2011 MCHA State Hunt BFOS 2011 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show BFOS 2012 MCHF State Hunt Ch Female and Queen of Show 2012 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show Ch. Female 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 TWB&F Walker Days Gr. Ch. female and Queen of Show 2013 Kentucky State Championship Gr. Ch. female and Opposite Sex winner 2013 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 ACHA World Hunt and Show BFOS 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 Lee Crawford Invitaional qualifier
Gr Ch Little Walnut Zipporah

Gr Ch A & B Preacher 2012 Saluda Days King of Show 2013 MCHF State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2013 MO Governor's Cup State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2014 RQE #11 Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 SWTWA Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2014 Kansas State Championship Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 UKC's Top 10 List 2014 Purina's Bench Show Top Ten List 2014 MCHF Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 MCHF Summer Classic King of Show 2014 MCHF State Hunt and Show GR. Ch. Winner Friday 2014 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year 2015 Purina Nationals qualifier 2015 Kansas State Championship Friday Gr Ch winner 2016 Purina Nationals qualifier

Gr Ch Table Rock Reverend Mundo Hawk 2010 MCHF State Hunt Best Male of Show 2011 MCHF Spring Classic Gr. Ch. male and King of Show 2011 UKC RQE 88 Gr Ch male 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch male 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr. Ch. male and King Of Show 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. male 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier

"Fast is Good. Accuracy is Everything." Wyatt Earp

Posted by Robert Starke on 01-28-2014 07:52 PM:

Whiner and Jane

Hi,

Whiner and Jane look almost identical in size and color. Can't wait to come pick out my pup.

Good Hunting,
Robert

Posted by Trinket clark on 01-28-2014 08:55 PM:

Btt

Posted by wildbill on 01-29-2014 02:45 AM:

Re: Those Maintaining "old blood"

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Are there any people on this thread, that are purely maintaining the old bloodlines, without any recent out-crosses? I'm talking about a pedigree where the average 20 year old, wouldn't recognize any of the names! No Sackett Jr, nothing with "Attack" in the name, no Mojo, no version of "X", no Trackman, not even Clover. A kennel full of line bred dogs, with a bunch of "no-names" in the pedigree until you find a Lipper, Harry, or even Chief!

I'm assuming this will likely be a "pleasure hunter" or maybe a competition hunter with a whole lot of discipline! Someone who chose to never out cross to the latest fad.

I'm asking this question to test a few theories...

1. I'm assuming that these types are rarely on this type a forum, because they're more "old school", and there's nothing wrong with that! Also, the types on this kind of forum are usually looking for new technology, new ideas, etc. and the type of person I have in mind relies more on the time-tested ideas and theories.

2. If this line exists, they probably make way less trees than some of us are accustomed to, but with more coon in them. And their hounds are more likely to be ball mouth tree dogs, or a combination tree dog, as opposed to rattling off 120 barks a minute, at potentially a slick tree!

3. And if this line exists, these dogs are probably less high strung, and hunt much closer, but again more likely to have a coon 50 feet from the truck, than a slick a 1/2 mile away.

4. If the last two theories, lead you to beleive that I think the old dogs were much better coon dogs than the current dogs, well... in some regards yes, but those old dogs had many weaknesses too. However, there are a lot of generations since those old dogs, and I assume these hunters have bred out some of those old weaknesses, but without breeding in the weaknesses of some of the more recent "flavors of the week".

Does such a person and program exist? Or is theory one correct, and they might, but there not on here to respond???

David Schmidt

havent been on here in awhile due to jobs and trying to make a liveing. almost got rid of my stock but lota people want someone else to do all the work and expence raising the best and just give them away,,,
i 'm down to 11 oldblood walkers age 12 and down look on my website for bloodlines if it still works,not updated in awhile

__________________
740-255-3087
william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

Posted by wildbill on 01-29-2014 02:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Ray,

There were seven pups in that litter. I have had a whole lot of folks that want to buy one out of this cross....I still own four of the pups, and gave two of them to my buddies, and traded one for a pup out of the same sire and a female that is bred quite a bit like my female.

I learned a long time ago that there is NO money to be made selling pups, and I have way too much invested to ever hope to make even a "break even" point.

I breed for me, and for me only....I sell off some "excess" pups, and have no aspiration of being famous....

The very last thing in the world that I want to do is mislead anyone.

The other side of the coin is that most guys buying pups today have no idea what they are buying. They have never hunted with the dog that they believe is a super dog either because they read where it won this hunt or that hunt, or they believe that because the dog is "famous" it's pups must be good, and they can get rich raising a pup and selling the next great dog.....

right on,agree with what you saying,,breeding for myself and quit reg. them..people want papers so they can sell pups,told geting my pups if they make the grade ,i'll give them the ped and numbers of the dogs i have that have papers and they can single reg them if they wanta waste money n the hunts.

__________________
740-255-3087
william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

Posted by Robert Starke on 01-31-2014 09:28 PM:

True Statement

Hi,

Amen. Have never run a puppy mill. I breed for coondogs that suit me.

Good Hunting,
Robert

Posted by shane smith on 01-31-2014 11:06 PM:

My opinion so take it for what it's worth.

We have easily exited, babbling, tree happy dogs because that's what we have bred. ....They are easily excited. Take any man with a can of Alpo and you have a 6 month tree dog. They maintain this same mentality to the woods.

Now the other side of this coin is that we are lazy. These dogs will tree a coon ...right? So the end result of there training is done. The problem is they never learned what comes before the tree. And we are content with that and haul this dog around. The dog was never really trained.

Posted by Trinket clark on 02-16-2014 12:15 PM:

Btt

Posted by chip johnson on 02-17-2014 02:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane smith
My opinion so take it for what it's worth.

We have easily exited, babbling, tree happy dogs because that's what we have bred. ....They are easily excited. Take any man with a can of Alpo and you have a 6 month tree dog. They maintain this same mentality to the woods.

Now the other side of this coin is that we are lazy. These dogs will tree a coon ...right? So the end result of there training is done. The problem is they never learned what comes before the tree. And we are content with that and haul this dog around. The dog was never really trained.

when i start a pup i use a hide for a drag. I will do lots of drags but i dont put the hide in a tree. I just throw it on the ground so the pup can play with it after it trails to it. My main goal is to get them to trail, they will learn to tree later by scent. I feel you can do as many drags as you want as long as you dont put the hide in a tree for the dog to tree by sight.

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