UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=)
-- Dear Judge . . . (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=439879)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aircastle

Oh, and Poodle butts have a “shelf” just below the anus. It’s formed by the points of the ischium on either side of the pelvis, and it’s not in the standard. We Poodle breeders like that well angled rear and not round bottoms. Like I said, it’s not in the standard, so you’re technically not wrong for overlooking it. It’s just a preference amongst us breeders, and you’ll look really intelligent if you note the good ones you find while judging.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by maligator
Why is this? I am very curious! Does it have a purpose? Are there structural differences between dogs who have it and dogs who do not?

Enlighten me please!

---

__________________
David Arthur
Aircastle Standard Poodles
http://aircastlekennels.com

David,
To post photos on a message put (img) in front of url web address. And then put (/img) in back of url web address. Do not leave spaces! I usually use photos from one of my websites or Flickr for posting. Just 'right click' on the photo you are using from a website and copy the web address. Paste that address directly between the (img) and the (/img).
Linda R

__________________
Home of Warlord Dobermans:

12 X Alt BIMBS, 4 x Alt RBIMBS, 9 X HSIT, URX, UROC, UCD, UCH D'Lano's Guns N'Roses, CGC, TDI, TT, WAC, RE, BN, UDC VC, AKC CD, APDT RL3, AOE-L1, L2 & L-3, ASCA ODX, CW-SR', ODC BROM (aka Raney)

Warlord's Khaos v Whitedheim, WAC, CGC' (UKC pointed) (2-27-2007 to 1-5-2013)

Daker Drago, CGC

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carrie
Dear Exhibitors don't get upset with the judge when they stop a ring to refer to your breed standard-sometimes dogs that are being judged have something that we are not 100% sure is incorrect or correct, so to give your dog our full fairness, we should always go to the standard--don't get upset when we reference your standard, it is a written guideline for your breed. There is no way that anyone who judges will ever know ever standard by heart.

---

__________________
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Laura
Kelrobin Labradors
A balanced dog has a title on both ends


UAGI GRCH Woodhaven Two For Roughing WC CGC RN Am/Can CD
UCH Kelrobin Lucky Shot on Goal CGC WC RN
UCH URO1 Kelrobin Shoshone Phantom RN BN CGC WC Can RN CGN
Can Ch UCH Kelrobin Shoshone Prankster RN CGC WC
Can Ch UGRCH NC NI UROC URX SHR Kelrobin Black Minx WCX RE CGCA BN CD
JH RATI RATN Can RA CGN PCD WC CD - 2015 AKC Rally Excellent National Championship Qualifier
UCH Kelrobin Shoshone Dragonfly CGC
UCH SHR Kelrobin Shenanigans WC
UCH Kelrobin Black Ice WC - Multi Reserve Best Puppy in Show

Dear Judge

please do not wonder out loud in front of an exhibitor, "What is a AWS?" this happened last weekend to us,

ask the steward and please do not wonder out loud, it does not make the exhibitor feel very good at all if you are asking what the breed is before you judge it., and at least touch the dog before you turn around.

thank you

__________________
Marsha M, mother of Jessica RN, who owns Annie the toller who has 8 Best Altered in Shows, and Secret, the American Water Spaniel,who is now a UKC CH.

Poodle Butt, Shelf and Apple

Links

Shelf Butt - "Lenny" Janovan's My Blue Heaven, Owner Heather Wells
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonda...57612231167518/



Apple Butt - "Riot" UKC Gr. CH. Moonvalley Master Sly Boots, Owner, Myself (White dog)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonda...157612181567319


Personally, I like the apple butt better. It shows a very well muscled rear and not all of that 'boney' under the tail. Riot's butt looks like he could leap over tall buildings and stop a speeding bullet with his teeth. But, like Aircastle said, it is preference. Like some Poodle people like that more refined head,(Lenny) I like the bigger, hunting head, like my Rebel.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonda...157612181567319
Or My Winston
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonda...157612181401201

Not saying that "Bigger is Better", but I think that some bloodlines have become way too refined and distract from the Standard poodles original purpose as a Hunting dog and all the substance (Muscle and bone) needed to achieve what was for their original purpose. That's why I have shown my poodles mostly in a HCC clip (Historically Correct Continental) and in corded coats because I did not want people to forget what their job was all those years ago and what their coats looked like (corded) and that they were not just decorations for the rich and famous.

Sorry, tried to do the image thing and just could not get it. But if you want to do it with these pictures, please do so with the pictures and show them instead of the links.

Karri L. Whitefish Bodoh
Moondance Standard Poodles
UKC Gr. CH. Moonvalley Master Sly Boots. "Riot"
BIS Res. UKC Ch. J-C Pioneers Opaque "Woo-woo"
UKC Ch. J-C Pioneer Inspires Moondance "Cricket"
UKC CH. J-C Pioneer Scandalous Moondance "Rebel"
UKC Ch. Moonvalley Midnight Eclipse "Solange"
http://moondancestandardpoodles.piczo.com/?cr=3

Dear Judges,
Please keep reading the standard when you feel the need; disregard complaints that "you must not know the breed if you have to look at it".
Please start thinking about pulling a wicket on the Berger Picard for bitches and dogs that appear too large. Our breed is so new, and we would hate to have breeders thinking "bigger is better" because they are rewarded for moving out well.
Please do not automatically overlook dogs who may be excited and carry their tails high during gaiting, but who have proper tail sets and are otherwise fine specimens of the breed. "All the time" would mean even at rest. These high drive dogs get excited and can appear to carry their tails over their backs when in a ring full of opposite-sexed dogs.
In general, our dogs respond well to a calm and confident demeanor on your part.

__________________
Michele Fitzgerald
FlyWire
http://www.flywiredogs.com

totally agree michele....and to add to that:
The standard calls for the Berger Picards ears to be erect, however, there are cases where their ears will go back in submission....this is not a disqualification. Hound flopping ears are a disqualification but tucking them back is not....

And this applies to other fanciers in general not really judges....Aloof does NOT mean aggressive or fearful

__________________
www.chaosstockdogs.com
(928) 308-6202

Dear Judge

Dear Judge, please remember that a Sheltie is not a Collie, and is not judged as a Collie. They are entirely different breeds, though the original intent for both breeds was for herding. Shelties are not meant to be judged with more importance on the head than the rest of the dog. They are not a companion breed, but one that needs correct structure for the reach and drive needed to do their job. A very heavy and fluffy coat does not make them more desirable.
And please do not fault judge, but judge on the merit of each dog and letting the one coming closest to the breed standard win. Please feel free to ask me if there is something you don't understand, I am always very happy to answer questions on my breed.

I have great respect for the job you do, and thank you.

__________________
Vicki
Memory Shelties
G-Ch Memory The Ides Of March
G-Ch. Memory I Think I
Ch. Clearsky What Was I Thinking
Ch. Nandina The Wheelman
Ch. Tara Hill Peggy Sue
Ch. Memory Yes Boss
Ch. Memory The Thinker
Ch. Bello's Inner Strength At Memory

Please oh please judges...do not be color prejudice in the Rat Terrier Ring. Rat Terriers come in a multitude of colors other than Black and White or Black and Tan. There are blues (blue nose leather (think dark charcoal), chocolates (brown or liver nose leather), pearls (and I hate that designation for color it should be called blue fawn), whites (black nose leather with or without black eye rim color on both eyes), apricot (black nose leather) lemon and white (self colored nose leather) etc.

Structure is is most important thing. I hate to see a perfictly good (other color) rat overlooked in favor of a Black and Tan or Black and White of lesser quality. Look at the movement, look harder at the movement and structure of the other colors. They can and do fool the eyes. Put your hands on them, and if you can't remember, put your hands on them again.

But regardless, Rat T's should NOT have a hackney gait.

__________________
Kathleen Chance

Dear judges

When judging Dachshunds remember that a Miniature Dachshund is just that...a miniature of a standard.
Although the standard says that the front feet MAY toe out SLIGHTLY it does not mean that the front should be "fiddle fronted".
A "slight rise over the loin" does not mean that the dog should be "butt high" like a race car.
Please do not reward shy dogs as this breed is supposed to be "brave to the point of rashness".....and that means for both sizes. These dogs were bred to hunt vermin from rats to rabbits to fox to badgers. They shouldn't "pee themselves" when a human comes near them.
The movement of the Dachshunds should have sufficient reach and drive. For heavens sakes they have to get in and out of a tunnel. They should reach as far forward as they drive back. They should not kick themselves in the belly when moving.
They are a scent hound................their heads should not be strung up like that of a Setter.............they should not be penalized for moving with their head straight ahead in line with their whithers and spine.

poodle form and function

dear judge when judging the varities please remember toys are under 10 in-NOT up to 12 in-and please -when someone brings in a 9 3/4 in toy dont comment that it looks like a teacup poodle-there is no such thing-thank you

Dear Judge,
When judging Miniature Poodles they should not have a toy head, the miniature poodle should be a miniature of a standard poodle. If they have the "toy" head then they aren't really a miniature they are a toy that grew out of its size standard. Also look at the back skull it should be very little to none. When judging Standard Poodles they should move like they are swimming, the rear ends should not be bouncing up and down they should actually move out and gait freely. The rear legs should go close the the elbow in the front not just past the tuck up. The front legs shouldn't be choppy - they should go out in front and move smoothly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HiSociety
"it all begins with movement"

I respectfully disagree with this...I personally believe that it all begins with breed type...

Linda Reece
HiSociety Fox Terriers

---

dear judge

quote:

---

Originally posted by sadiemoore

---

Dear Judge,
The Italian Greyhound standard states, "Intelligent and affectionate, but sensitive and may be reserved with strangers." Please keep in mind that yes, they are companion dogs, but they should not be expected to immediately take a shine to you. This is not to say that it's ok for them to be terrified of you! A slight shaking is common, as is a bit of leaning away, but as long as they allow an normal on-table exam and will gait properly, that little aloofness shouldn't be penalized.

Physically, I think the most misunderstood aspects of the IG are it's topline and movement. The standard states,"The topline shows a slight rise..." this does NOT mean a roached back! Emphasis should be on "slight", not "rise"! Ideally, the height difference between the withers and that rise should be hardly noticeable. In fact, except for that very slight rise, the highest part of the topline should be the withers. The topline should then proceed smoothly to the beginning of the loin, then curve gracefully down over the croup. The entire outline, topline included, should be smooth! No roach backs and no "broken" or "hinged" backs...there is no smoothness to either of those last two styles and it detracts from what an IG should look like (smoothness and elegance are integral to breed type!). As for movement, the IG's high stepping movement is a signature aspect of the breed, yet it has very little description in the standard. It says, "Distinctive action is high stepping and free, the foreleg is lifted with a slight bend at the wrist rather than a goose step...Movement is sound, elegant and smooth, not choppy or hackney-like." While there is no set definition to "high stepping", most breeders feel that anywhere between about 50 to 90 degrees is good. Low, efficient movement like a Whippet's (so-called daisy clipping) is totally incorrect, as is the restricted, hackney movement of a Min Pin.

Lastly, the thing that's been driving me nuts lately is the sheer SIZE of the dogs that are winning! Now, obviously it's up to the owners to evaluate what they're bringing to you, but the standard states, "The ideal height at the withers measures from 13 to 15 inches. Serious Fault: Any deviation above or below the height range." Unless there are no worthy dogs in the correct size range, please stop rewarding those huge dogs!

Whew! It's late so I hope that made sense.

__________________
Holly
www.silvaniigs.com
www.sablegreyhound.com

Dear Judge

Holly -

First - thanks for the great description of the IG - since I have a toy breed I usually am watching other toy breeds in the ring before and after showing and now I feel I have a better sense of what to look for when watching IGs.

Second - and in no way is this a "dig" against you - I need to, again, reinterate the importance of understanding Min Pin movement and for not only judges, but my peers in other breeds, to not use an inaccurate description when comparing how other breeds should move versus how Min Pins are supposed to move -
Min Pin movement should never be "restricted". The standard calls for a "free and reaching, easy gait.."

Do not want to belabor the point but it is very common for people in other breeds to describe incorrect movement in terms of how it compares to Min Pins because we are the only breed that has that word - "hackney" - in our standard. And, of course, no other breed is supposed to hackney.

So - again - please remember that Min Pins should have lift and break BUT should also have reach and drive and MUST move cleanly and in parallel motion.

Thanks!!

Joanne Wilds
Altanero Miniature Pinschers

BISA/BISS AKC/UKC Ch Altanero Barnstormer "Ace"
AKC/UKC Ch UWP Altanero Sharper Image RN, CGC "Jag"
AKC/UKC Ch Marlex Brings The Heat "Marissa"

Response to Dear Judge

Colleagues,
As a new UKC judge, I have to tell you how much I really enjoy reading these "Dear Judge" posts. My opinion, based on the often quoted wisdom of a famous, now deceased judge, is that priority is always breed type. A dog must first look like his breed.
I base my decisions on what that standard says. I came to the UKC, because I really appreciate the natural state, and hold function very high. When I see a dog that meets the description in his written breed standard, when I put hands on that dog and appreciate his structure and his condition, when I see him move the way he is supposed to, I'm in awe of him, his breed, and his breeder.
Back this spring I saw a poodle with an entirely natural coat in Minnesota. She moved like a gun dog, with functional angles fore and aft.

Bev

__________________
Bev Felten
UKC conformation judge
#6988

Re: Dear Judge

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoanneW
Holly -

First - thanks for the great description of the IG - since I have a toy breed I usually am watching other toy breeds in the ring before and after showing and now I feel I have a better sense of what to look for when watching IGs.

Second - and in no way is this a "dig" against you - I need to, again, reinterate the importance of understanding Min Pin movement

---

__________________
Holly
www.silvaniigs.com
www.sablegreyhound.com

Dear Judge,

In Hamiltonstovare, would you please pay more attention to the feet. Hamiltonstovare have a very different foot than other hounds, it is an oval shape but that does NOT mean that it should have a flat foot. The foot should be oval shaped and the toes should be well arched. If the dog has flat feet, there is not way that it would be able to hunt hare and fox under varying terrain and surfaces for an entire day.

Also, markings do not make the breed. Yes they are a markings breed but if the dog is beautifully marked but has no muscle tone, poor front angles, and an over-angulated rear then it will never be an effective hunter, which is more important than markings.

Another thing, just because they may resemble a beagle or a walker, that does NOT mean that they are going to be silly goofy hounds in the ring. Most Hamiltons are incredibly laid back in the ring or view it as a job and are very serious. So don't expect them to bounce around or make noises.

Lastly, the tail, the proper tail position on a moving Hamilton is NEVER higher than the topline, so if it is carrying its tail like a foxhound, beagle or coonhound, don't put it up because it is very wrong. Hamiltons use their tails to keep their balance when running, not as a means of identification.

So remember those big things, when in doubt check the standard, we prefer it if the judge reads the standard over, than to make generalizations about the breed and comparing them to other more popular hounds, which are usually dead wrong.

__________________
Oceania Hamiltonstovare
Home of:
AKC BIS/UKC BIS BIMS Multi RBIMS Ch. Kilcavan Alice's Adventures CGC CGCA CM Ptn'd (UK 2009 Top Puppy Hamiltonstovare)
America's first Hamiltonstovare to be shown, also the first ever to be AKC FSS registered and first ever AKC titled
#1 Hamiltonstovare 2012, 2014

Multi RBIMS Multi Total Dog UWP CH Kilcavan Captain Flint CGC CM Pnt'd (Crufts qualifier 2012 & 2013)
#1 Hamiltonstovare 2013

CH Oceania Wit Beyond Measure

Oceania Use Any Means

Teddy Roosevelt Terrier:
UFR Oceania Lucky Penny

quote:

---

Originally posted by SilvaniIGs
Dear Judge,
The Italian Greyhound standard states, "Intelligent and affectionate, but sensitive and may be reserved with strangers." Please keep in mind that yes, they are companion dogs, but they should not be expected to immediately take a shine to you. This is not to say that it's ok for them to be terrified of you! A slight shaking is common, as is a bit of leaning away, but as long as they allow an normal on-table exam and will gait properly, that little aloofness shouldn't be penalized.

---

__________________
Serena Galloway
www.ankhu.com

Home of Multi-BIS U-GrCh, Multi Group Winning/Placing AKC Bronze GCh, MBIS/MRBIS Int'l Ch, CKC Ch. Pineridge-Anji's St. Cecilia

Home of BIS/MRBIS U-GrCh., MBPIG CKC Ch., Int'l Ch, AKC GCh. Ankhu's Steamy Windows

No part of this message may be forwarded without permission

Yep, that falls right along with Dachshunds who back away from the judge....what part of "brave to the point of rashness" does that display? Yet judges (in all registries) will reward this with not only placements but points and titles. Very sad!!!!

with any breed!

I was at a show recently and the judge gave breed to a toller that had it's belly about two inches off the floor, how sad and how inappropriate. The toller that did not get breed, should have, it is a very nice dog with awesome temperment.

too bad and too sad, that we see such temperment issues in many breeds today

__________________
Marsha M, mother of Jessica RN, who owns Annie the toller who has 8 Best Altered in Shows, and Secret, the American Water Spaniel,who is now a UKC CH.

That is one of the reasons we get temperments like that...because the judges award such temperments.....all registries.

Meg
you are right, we see this in all registries...

__________________
Marsha M, mother of Jessica RN, who owns Annie the toller who has 8 Best Altered in Shows, and Secret, the American Water Spaniel,who is now a UKC CH.