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Been cheated... really???

YEP

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ENC(SW) USN Retired 1980-2003

Slate Creek Blues

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i was on a hunt once and came in with 450+. the master of hounds said that me and another guy tied. well i turned around and talked to a good friend of mine for about 2 minutes and the master of hounds said "mike, i was wrong, the other cast had 100 circle that i forgot about." was this cheating or was the moh just over looking the first scorecard? one other thing, the moh and the other guy was best friends and trying to be dog jockies at this particular time.true story. so dont think that the moh is for everyone to look too to sort out problems in a hunt all the time.i felt like i got cheated 40 minutes after the hunt was over by the moh.

A handler is supposed to know his dog, the rules, and how to apply them when he signs up and pays his entry to hunt. A competition hunt is a sport/game. If you mess up playing the game, you get penalized. It's a handler and dog team. If it was ONLY about the best dog, there would be some other kind of rule format. You never know what's going to happen on a wild coonhunt.
I'm always trying to think a step ahead of what's going to or what could happen. Just because mine strikes first or trees first, doesn't mean I'm going to strike or tree him first. You have to take what you need when you need it sometimes. If you do something that's a scratching offense and its your first hunt or 1000th hunt, you will be scratched.... same thing with being minused. If you give somebody an inch, they will think they DESERVE an inch, and the next time they will want a mile!

Very well said! I couldn't agree more.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonathan w.
[B]A handler is supposed to know his dog, the rules, and how to apply them when he signs up and pays his entry to hunt. A competition hunt is a sport/game. If you mess up playing the game, you get penalized. It's a handler and dog team. If it was ONLY about the best dog, there would be some other kind of rule format. You never know what's going to happen on a wild coonhunt.
I'm always trying to think a step ahead of what's going to or what could happen. Just because mine strikes first or trees first, doesn't mean I'm going to strike or tree him first. You have to take what you need when you need it sometimes.


isn't not calling your dog on purpose a scatchable affence? If you have a a good hound it should be put on the paper as soon as it barks three times and when you hear it locate. A judge should never have to put a stationary on a dog that is tree'd if you know your dog. If my dog tree's first I want every bit of that 125 plus or minus or circle.

There are crooked people in all sports steroids use and any other drug to get the advantage and they are only part of the problem people who dont report these people are just as much to blame as the cheater is. I stoped hunting in hunts do to the cheating then i realized i had alot of good times and lots of fun met nice people and not so nice people go out have fun and call the one out who is cheating at that time, not a month later or on a msg board if people did that you wouldnt be hunting with them crooked ones long they would be bared or change there ways because every one was watching. if you dont say nothing then your responsible for my kids drawing that same guy and me doing what you should have done.

Jonathan W,

There is a big difference between a sport and a competition. Coonhunting is not a sport. It is a game though. I guess your rationale is that if we play a game of yatzee then we are playing a sport because we are competing.

The whole idea of competition coonhunts was to have a measuring stick of who had the best coondog! Now, it has become something entirely different to most people. I guess things change and it makes it easier for most to say they have a coondog if they can win a cast or a hunt if they are a great handler.

I just don't know of any other dog event (competition) where the handler has so much influence on the outcome. A handler should be a vehicle for the dog so it can be judged properly. Also, the rules were made to be used to judge a dog performance and not to be manipulated by great handlers to mask faults of the dogs performance.

It is why there will always be naysayers about nite hunts who would rather pleasure hunt because they know that the hunts now are weighted to the handling side too much and have less emphasis on the actual performance of each individual dog in a cast. It's become more of knowing how to use the rules to win than on acknowledging the best performing dog.

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The truth will set you free!

ive been cheated ALOT...

in the beginning it was mainly due to my ignorance...won an RQE..first cast i was ever in running my buddys grand nite so i could learn to comp hunt...came down to a tie...the other guys in the cast were older...2 knew me from when i was a kid...ALL of them lied directly to my face and agreed he broke the tie breaker...i figured they been doing it longer than me so i left....came home and told my buddy and we got a card out..sure enough i was lied to...i won fair and square...they knew it was my first cast..they knew they could get away with it....i still am waiting to draw that ole sucker again...hopefully my dog puts a whoopin on his and after he signs the card he's gunna get it brought to his attention...


lately, ive been cheated alot....my dog is very independent..more than any other dog ive ever drawn out with...talking running the opposite way off the leash...talkin leaving tracks that go into another dogs tree sometimes...but she will hold her pressure if shes first no problem...but she gotta be first..

anyways, thats giving me heck...everyone knows its pretty dang hard to beat an independent dog sitting under coon after coon on her own...

and she usually takes a little longer to get treed so we are scoring their tree with 2-3 dogs and mine is off treed alone..they know they cant recast and know she can be getting 125..

my favorite was a judge saying "that coon aint in that tree but it could be anywhere!" the 2 voted to circle it...the 2 were buddies...and both their dogs were there..

goto my tree 100yds away..same tree 100yds away..big tree, vines, touching other trees etc but just like theirs, slick...they minused me!


another 3 dogs on a tree mine off on her own...1 guy quit shinning and was walkin away with his dog to the trail..judge hollers we aint done shinning you cant walk away...so he comes back and says minus the tree its slick lets go! they burn the shine time..they call for a vote..i vote slick as well...2 on 2...they circle it...i was fuming..

then, the judge and i were tied i think..or within 25pts..the other guy was down 75 or somethin...cut em and the judges dog barked and the other dog barked..they struck in the same order..mine never peeped..i told them put the 8 on them...half way through the 8 i told the judge he needs to minus them coz they babbled and he knows it...he grumbled somethin under his breath and wouldnt do it....10 seconds before the 8 is up, the judge says I HEAR A DOG! 8 BROKE! i never heard a thing and was tryin to get my dog struck in...other guy not wanting to take minus agrees..we climb the hill and you could faintly hear the my dog and the judges treed wayyyy down the other side...actually in the direction the judge pointed when he broke the 8 so i couldnt complain...but we were hunting MY woods..me and my guide know 10000% you CANNOT hear a dog up and over that hill that far away..i dont care how loud it is it cant be done...he got lucky....


i dont care that i loose...i will take my minus and am quick to minus my dog if it leaves a tree or comes up slick or whatever...

but i hate being cheated...im sick of it...thats why im not going to the hunt tonite...its 2hrs away and i dont feel like driving that far to put up with BS..

like i tell them at EVERY tree a question comes up...show me a COON and i'll plus it if its there..(i find coon for anyone it saves hunt time!) show me a hole or a place i cannot see at all where a coon COULD be and i'll circle it...but till then, its minused in my eyes. plain and simple....

i wont bother hunting my independent dog when theirs leaves on the trees...WAY too many slicks get circled...and its not "so obvious"


my buddy told me before i started this mess that im too honest for the nite hunts...hes right...but, i wont quit yet...i feel the dogs i hunt deserve the titles they deserve..we buy dogs from good/famous blood and studs and i feel they deserve the chance to win the titles they deserve..i wont cheat or lie to get a win...my dogs gotta be twice as good as the rest to get a win to outweigh all the cheaters....sad...grown men lying and cheating just to win...

another problem is for a while i wasnt recognized or known..the guys knew/assumed i was new as they hadnt seen me around...for a while they all tried cheatin here n there till they realized i knew the rules and had a coon dog..

im also pretty quick with math and numbers and keep track of time and scores in my head or in my own truck on a tablet...either most coon hunters cant do math and tell time or alot try to cheat here n there as i catch them ALOT...i know its hard to keep track of as a hunting judge...but man, you thought 2nd tree was 100pts on your dog but the cast before when my dog had 2nd you knew it was 75??? or you thought first tree was 100 for my dog but you remembered 125 for yours?? gimme a break!

The younger generation?

Just my thoughts... everyone wants to win just as much as the next guy I understand that but why not help one another. If you have a dog worth compition hunting then you should have no problem helping a guy shine his tree and finding his coon because your dog should have one too. If everyone had better sportsmanship than maybe I wouldn't hesitate to let my son go to compition hunts with his father. But I don't want to let him go yet because I don't want him to see how nasty and mean some people get when they are trying to win let alone win at all costs. Is every cast like that no, are we perfect no, but should everyone try to do better so we can teach the younger generation how to be good sportsman/women. I think so. I guess for now my son will have to stay just pleasure hunting because I don't want to have to explain to him why a guy old enough to be his dad or grandpa is acting like a spoiled brat just because they want to win. When we are trying to teach our children to help others no matter what.

Nicole Rains

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Just my thoughts... everyone wants to win just as much as the next guy I understand that but why not help one another. If you have a dog worth compition hunting then you should have no problem helping a guy shine his tree and finding his coon because your dog should have one too. If everyone had better sportsmanship than maybe I wouldn't hesitate to let my son go to compition hunts with his father. But I don't want to let him go yet because I don't want him to see how nasty and mean some people get when they are trying to win let alone win at all costs. Is every cast like that no, are we perfect no, but should everyone try to do better so we can teach the younger generation how to be good sportsman/women. I think so. I guess for now my son will have to stay just pleasure hunting because I don't want to have to explain to him why a guy old enough to be his dad or grandpa is acting like a spoiled brat just because they want to win. When we are trying to teach our children to help others no matter what.

Nicole Rains


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it would be nice if there were no cheating in comp hunting but dont let that stop you from taking your son.one lesson worth learnig is how to handle these things.he will be alot better off learning this with you to guide him threw it.we all know comp hunting is not the only place we get to deal with cheaters they are everywhere in life!!your son will see a grown man dealing with these issues and talk about what happened on the way home giving him a chance to learn to deal with or even avoid these things.you will deal with unreasonable people in everyday life and it is no different than a comp hunt.your son is probably going to be on a comp hunt sooner or later and i bet he can learn to deal with this stuff with you along to guide him at a early age better than jumping in at 18 or 20 years old fully ready to defend his honor,self and dog in a way that might not work out for his comp hunt carreir.i hope i am not getting in your buisness to far and goodluck

va.b&t

We probably will eventually but right now he is just getting ready to turn 7. Maybe in a couple years when he a little older, because right now he is just not ready to watch the adults that do "cheat" and act like babies act that way. I would take him in a heart beat if I knew he could handle it well. Just don't think he is ready for that yet. But thanks for your input gives us another way to think about it. Just wanted to give some people something to think about and that is the younger kids and the lessons we are teaching them. Not that it will make them act any better but just saying it would be nice.

Nicole Rains

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First to admit

I let it happen. Took 100 minus on strike Friday night. I struck my female within the minute and it took 38 seconds for my dog to open again. 3 to 1 cast voted my female babbled. They said within the first minute if a dog is struck they have to continuously open on track. Point is I didn't even question it, took my 100- on strike over 38 seconds of silence to stay out of an argument. It's great being green in the sport and having to get chopped down a notch for being the cast leader. BTW the female I was handling is EXTREMELY tight mouthed on track, quite possibly the furthest thing I have ever seen from a babbler.

Made the difference between 7th and 9th place.

Live and Learn!

It won't happen again!