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-- I Have Question,about Rules? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=216270)

Some of u say ur afraid ur dog is gonna start being rough around the tree if theyre hunt with rough dogs. Thats not so at all!! Its in their blood to be more or less aggressive than others. I pushed a black dog last year in PKC named Tenn Blackjack. He was killed by a car in Dec. Anyway, he was hunted with everything under the sun at the hunts. Some blowed a little, some were meaner than hell, and some didnt do anything. Jack would stay with anything. At the PKC world hunt in 06 he split from the other dogs. 3 donkeys ran him around the tree till we got there. He would run around the tree barking up. But he stayed. I hunted him with pups at home and he never blowed at a pup wanting to play around the tree. Just good natured. After all the rough mean dogs he had to put up with night after night, HE NEVER DEVELOPED THAT HABIT!

i dont think this discussion is if a dog looks over & blows at another dog here & there, its the dog that stays in another dogs face !! interference does not mean the dog has to run another off the tree !! if this dog is in another dogs face & pushing the dog to stay away from him face barking that is interference. if this dog is treed & all dogs are sitting back off the tree & this dog is turned around with his butt against the tree blowing & dareing a dog to try to get on tree this is interference, if this dog is standing on the tree & other dogs are backed up & they try to come up on tree & this dog starts blowing & trying to intemidate others & not letting on the tree this is interference !! all need to be scratched !!

ukc needs to change the way this rule is worded to aggressive behavior only !!

todd or allen please explain this rule & what is exceptable & what is not !! or do we want this to be like pkc was a few years back let it go till the last dog standing when the dust settles & say they were just jockin for possision !! this disscuion has gone on long enough tell us the interpetation of this rule, what is exceptable & what is not !!

todd or allen, can a dog be scratched for biting another handler or spectator ??

If a dog is treeing with a dog thats blowing or facebarking and its not being run around the tree, not putting rearend to tree, or keeping another dog from getting on the tree, then theres no interference. A dog CHOOSING to back off and tree rather than stand on tree and blow back or whatever, its not being interfered with neither. Ive drawn every type of handler there is. Alot of u are just like these 2: If a dog blows at ur dog(no grabbing, biting or guarding tree, just blowing) and ur dog leaves, the first thing u look for is a "MEAN" dog. No way was it ur dogs fault he didnt stay!!! Take that very same handler, let his dog blow(no grabbing, biting, or guarding tree, just blowing) and another dog leaves the tree, u say the dog needs to stay!! Depends what ur hunting. If any one of u had a dog that could get first strike, first tree, loud hard tree dog, has a coon every time, stayed treed for a week at a time EVERY TIME U CUT HIM LOOSE, but would blow and face bark a little, every one of u would own it and hunt it in the hunts. Dont reply back saying u wouldnt either, if u do, ur either lying, or ur a fool!!

quote:

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Originally posted by roughcreek


ukc needs to change the way this rule is worded to aggressive behavior only !!

todd or allen please explain this rule & what is exceptable & what is not !! or do we want this to be like pkc was a few years back let it go till the last dog standing when the dust settles & say they were just jockin for possision !! this disscuion has gone on long enough tell us the interpetation of this rule, what is exceptable & what is not !!

todd or allen, can a dog be scratched for biting another handler or spectator ??

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Dale, I agree with you completely. But if the judge or a majority scratches the dog it will almost certainly stay scratched after the process is completed. So face barking is scratchable when they say it is. That is the bottom line.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

gfults, you said the key word A LITTLE !!

Jim, whos "little" are we gonna go by? Not everybody thinks a little blowing is the same as someone else.

What Jim is saying is if the rest of the cast teams up on you and they stick together, anything can be a scratchable offense. He did not say that he agreed that face barking only is scratchable , just that it can be under the right conditions with the right people involved.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

I just want to ask a couple of final questions.

Now be honest with yourself.

Why would anyone want to hunt a facebarking dog in a UKC Hunt?

Would anyone be happy about drawing a facebarking dog in their cast?

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# 1 they only care about winning at any cost & dont care about the other people or dogs in the cast !! you know a true sportsman by what they carry to the hunts !!

# 2 absolutly not, this is why i dont hunt my young dogs in the hunts, because of this type person & thier dogs !!

quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry West
I just want to ask a couple of final questions.

Now be honest with yourself.

Why would anyone want to hunt a facebarking dog in a UKC Hunt?

Would anyone be happy about drawing a facebarking dog in their cast?

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NO IT IS NOT A JOKE !! & MINE WILL STAY & I MIGHT GET MINE SCRATCHED BECAUSE SOME GOOFBALL CARRING AN IDIOT TREE DOG TO A HUNT !! LIKE I SAID BE FOR, I WILL NOT HUNT A DOG THAT WILL BE RUN OFF A TREE & I DONT HAVE A DOG THAT IS GOING TO STAND THERE & LET SOME HALF WIT CONTINULY BLOW IN ITS FACE BEFORE HE IS GOING TO BLOW BACK !! THEN THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU GOT A DOG FIGHT !! THEN THE BLOWER IS SCRATCHED MINE IS SCRATCHED OR SOME BODY ELSES DOG THAT IS JUST TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY WERE BRED TO DO, IS SCRATCHED BECAUSE SOME BODY PUT A DOG IN A HUNT THAT THEY KNOW WILL CAUSE TROUBLE !!

I OWNED A DOG A FEW YEARS BACK THAT WOULD NOT BOTHER NOTHING, WE USED HIM FOR A PUP TRAINER HUNTED HIM WITH ALL MY FRIENDS NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE. I NEVER HUNTED HIM WITH SOME THIMG I DID NOT KNOW !! PUPS COULD CHEW ON HIM GET IN HIS FACE ON A TREE LIKE PUPS DO, JUST MUG HIM ON A TREE.HE WOULD NRVER LOOK AT THEM. BUT IF YOU GOT A DOG THAT WOULD CONTINUOUSLY GET IN HIS FACE BLOWING & NOT LEAVE HIM ALONE, HE WOULD CLEAN EVERY THING OFF THE TREE, THAT IS WHY I NEVER PUT HIM IN ANY HUNTS. I DID NOT WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE OF RUINING SOME ONE ELSES HUNT OR YOUNG DOG !! THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH ANY DOG THAT YOU KNOW IS LIKLY TO CAUSE A PROBLEM, KEEP IT OUT OF THE HUNTS !!

Jim,
The Jack dog i pushed last year in PKC wouldnt do nothin at all at the tree unless provoked into it. When that happened he would give them everything he was getting. He was scratched along with another dog for fighting one night at a hunt. We didnt see what started it, so we scratched them both with no arguments. I had hunted with the other dog quite a bit in hunts and pleasure hunting, so I had a pretty good idea of what happend. It didnt bother me one bit that the other dog "probably provoked mine into fighting! U know why? Because I knew Jack wasnt mean and I wasnt worried about mine being a problem or worried about him getting scratched 3 times. If anybody knows truthfully and can be honest with themselves, that their dog isnt mean and is not starting junk at the tree, then they shouldnt be worried about another dog and how rough it is. I will say this also. If some of these dogs would be more independant and depend less on other dogs helping them, and go tree a coon to themselves instead of being such packing, me tooing culls they wouldnt have to worry about another dog anyway.

against my better judgement,im gonna give my opinion on facebarkers.

I do not consider a facebarker to be a mean dog, but I wont tolerate it from a dog im hunting for obvious reasons,one of which it gives the competition a reason to try to scratch you.
and it does lead to problems around the tree,much like a tree jacker. If you have a facebarker and a tree jacker on the same tree it can sure sound like a war in there. Also,sooner or later another dog will put him in his place,hard.

Most facebarkers that ive seen were young dogs that got over excited on trees and were never taught any tree manners. An older dog that wont tolerate any of his BS can be a great training tool in teaching him those tree manners.
It is just a part of the training process of getting a young dog ready for the hunts. I spend many nites setting dogs up in many different hunt situations with different types of dogs just to see how the young dog will react and to see what he needs work on.

So many people just hunt a young dog alone,or with something they know, and when he is cranking start putting him in the hunts without haveing any clue how he is gonna react to all the different dogs and situations they are putting him in. Then they cry foul when their young heartstopper cant get along with others.
You cant control what others bring to the hunt, but you can control how yours will react to theirs.

It seems the majority of folks want to see their dog stretched up on the tree and never moveing. It makes for an impressive tree dog no doubt. But i take great pride in snapping my lead on the one thats treeing back off the tree a bit and letting the others have at it.

I dont think a face barker is going to ruin anyones good young dog. If you have a dog that is that easily intimidated that he leaves tree with no contact being made, he is probably not gonna be your next big winner anyhow.

A mean dog is a whole different story .

AMEN to Elvis

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America for an amount of 'up to and including my life.'

That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
against my better judgement,im gonna give my opinion on facebarkers.

I do not consider a facebarker to be a mean dog, but I wont tolerate it from a dog im hunting for obvious reasons,one of which it gives the competition a reason to try to scratch you.
and it does lead to problems around the tree,much like a tree jacker. If you have a facebarker and a tree jacker on the same tree it can sure sound like a war in there. Also,sooner or later another dog will put him in his place,hard.

Most facebarkers that ive seen were young dogs that got over excited on trees and were never taught any tree manners. An older dog that wont tolerate any of his BS can be a great training tool in teaching him those tree manners.
It is just a part of the training process of getting a young dog ready for the hunts. I spend many nites setting dogs up in many different hunt situations with different types of dogs just to see how the young dog will react and to see what he needs work on.

So many people just hunt a young dog alone,or with something they know, and when he is cranking start putting him in the hunts without haveing any clue how he is gonna react to all the different dogs and situations they are putting him in. Then they cry foul when their young heartstopper cant get along with others.
You cant control what others bring to the hunt, but you can control how yours will react to theirs.

It seems the majority of folks want to see their dog stretched up on the tree and never moveing. It makes for an impressive tree dog no doubt. But i take great pride in snapping my lead on the one thats treeing back off the tree a bit and letting the others have at it.

I dont think a face barker is going to ruin anyones good young dog. If you have a dog that is that easily intimidated that he leaves tree with no contact being made, he is probably not gonna be your next big winner anyhow.

A mean dog is a whole different story .

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Sportsmanship

Sure seems to me that certain people involved in this discussion are not the kind we need to keep our sport growing and strong.
I enjoy competion and winning as much as the next guy. I enjoy even more knowing at the end of a hunt that win or lose I had an enjoyable time meeting new people and seeing good dog work.
It saddens me to know think someone holding a MOH license would have such a belligerent and un-sportsmanlike attitude. These are the kind we all dread being in a cast with. And they can quickly ruin a good hunt for all involved.
Why do some people feel the need to run down someone else's dogs as being "culls" for not being an alligator at the tree? The only "culls" are those dogs who are aggressive.
There is NEVER a time that a dog NEEDS to be aggressive to stay treed. I have yet to see a case where a dog can't find somewhere to tree without having to be on top of another dog.
Call me a liar or a fool, I would accept my scratch if my dog was causing problems at the tree. I will also take my minus if my dog doesn't have enough sense find some room to tree. If I ever have an ill dog, he won't live long enough to get scratched 3 times.
IF EVERYONE GOT HONEST WITH THEMSELVES, AND STARTED KILLING THEIR GATORS INSTEAD OF BREEDING THEM, IN A FEW SHORT YEARS THIS TRAIT COULD BE ELIMINATED FROM THE GENE POOL.

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Re: Sportsmanship

quote:

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Originally posted by mavryk1971
Sure seems to me that certain people involved in this discussion are not the kind we need to keep our sport growing and strong.
I enjoy competion and winning as much as the next guy. I enjoy even more knowing at the end of a hunt that win or lose I had an enjoyable time meeting new people and seeing good dog work.
It saddens me to know think someone holding a MOH license would have such a belligerent and un-sportsmanlike attitude. These are the kind we all dread being in a cast with. And they can quickly ruin a good hunt for all involved.
Why do some people feel the need to run down someone else's dogs as being "culls" for not being an alligator at the tree? The only "culls" are those dogs who are aggressive.
There is NEVER a time that a dog NEEDS to be aggressive to stay treed. I have yet to see a case where a dog can't find somewhere to tree without having to be on top of another dog.
Call me a liar or a fool, I would accept my scratch if my dog was causing problems at the tree. I will also take my minus if my dog doesn't have enough sense find some room to tree. If I ever have an ill dog, he won't live long enough to get scratched 3 times.
IF EVERYONE GOT HONEST WITH THEMSELVES, AND STARTED KILLING THEIR GATORS INSTEAD OF BREEDING THEM, IN A FEW SHORT YEARS THIS TRAIT COULD BE ELIMINATED FROM THE GENE POOL.

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looks like you changed your tune , A LITTLE !!