UKC Forums - Knocks fleas out...same as admire but cheaper..

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-- Knocks fleas out...same as admire but cheaper.. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=101984)

Posted by m_blakemore on 06-02-2007 08:07 PM:

going to get a bottle right now. the fleas are horrible this year in Texas and I cant really afford that Frontline with all the critters we got around here. Thanks Fullcry

Posted by TRRedbones on 06-06-2007 02:18 AM:

We began using this product last year when I read these earlier posts. We swear by it now. I've read a few posts asking if it will work on ticks too. I can't really say for sure but what I can say is that as I was reading- it occurred to me... we haven't really seen any ticks since we started using it so take that for what it's worth.

We've used it on young pups all the way to adults- we've seen no side effects and NO FLEAS!!! Stacey- I saw you asked how we use it.... we put ours on the belly as was suggested- it works great.

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Posted by Tightline on 06-06-2007 11:18 AM:

a friend of mine told me about this, and buddy i tell you it has saved me lots and lots of $$$$$$ and it's still working.

i was a long long time believer in front line plus, but im sold on this product.
my buddy has tried it for quite some time. i owe him big time.

((((((((((((((((((((
i can feed most of my dogs for what i was spending on front line plus )))))))))))))))))))))))

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Posted by m_blakemore on 06-06-2007 11:28 AM:

Worked!!

After day one there was noticabley less fleas on my dogs, and I think whatever was on them was coming out of the yard because at the end of day 2 there was not a flea to be found!!!! Good Stuff

Posted by spottedmmeadows on 06-06-2007 04:20 PM:

Has anyone used this product on cats? I know they sell Advantage and Frontline for cats...is anyone having any luck with this Bayer stuff on cats? Thanks!

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Posted by Rick on 07-10-2007 08:07 PM:

TTT

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Posted by POP on 07-10-2007 08:15 PM:

i have used it on my cats.............no side effects yet.

Posted by cliff mullenax on 07-11-2007 08:57 PM:

btt:

Posted by charles on 07-11-2007 09:31 PM:

HELLO HUNTERS!

this is no joke! please try it u won't believe it!

plain ole dawn dish soap kill'em GRAVE YARD DEAD!

OR

plain ole PINE SOL!

this is true!

i use it and it works first time everytime, all the time!

besides what do u have to loose?

"fleas"

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Posted by swamp music on 07-11-2007 11:27 PM:

charles

That's true, but dawn only kills them one time. this stuff kills them for the whole month. you would have to wash yours in every other day in dawn to keep the fleas off, just put this stuff on once a month and you dont have to worry about fleas again.
chris..

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Posted by Darrell on 07-13-2007 02:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by chadf
Wayne go to the feed store and look for a tick collar that contains amitraz as the active ingredient. this stuff will kill ticks guarenteed.

I agree, it is good for ticks. However, you are not supposed to use Amitraz in conjunction with Ivomec, for those who are dosing their dogs themselves...

Posted by ahallada on 07-14-2007 04:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darrell
I agree, it is good for ticks. However, you are not supposed to use Amitraz in conjunction with Ivomec, for those who are dosing their dogs themselves...

Darrell,
I haven't heard that Imidocloprid is that effective for ticks and there is no research to support its effectiveness for preventing ticks on dogs. The doses quoted above for the Bayer T & S concentrate is the same as you would find on the box of Bayer Advantage for the active ingredient--> Imidocloprid. Bayer even recognizes that it is not effective for ticks which is why they have added Permethrin to the product = Advantix for tick control.

I have seen a few people post on this forum that they didn't see ticks or saw fewer ticks for about 10-12 days after application , but many started seeing them again after this period. I wouldn't depend on it however as tick borne diseases can be serious to dogs and humans. There are some parts of the US where ticks are really bad and I doubt this product is going to provide full protection in these areas for over 2 weeks. It only takes one tick bite to cause life threatening illnesses such as Lyme dz., Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Ehrlichiosis etc.. It isn't worth it.

I have also never heard of any warnings against using Amitraz and Ivermectin at the same time. Here is the Amitraz drug interaction warnings from the most popular veterinary pharmacy book called "Plumbs".

"Drug Interactions
Because of their immunosuppressive effects, corticosteroids and other immunosuppressant drugs (e.g., azathioprine, cyclophosphamide, etc) should not be used in animals with demodicosis.

Amitraz may interact with other MAO inhibitors (including selegiline) or tricyclic antidepressants (amitriptyline, clomipramine). Concomitant use is not recommended."

Let me know where you heard this from.

Thanks,

Allen

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Posted by Darrell on 07-15-2007 10:26 PM:

I think if you read my post again, I was NOT suggesting that Imidocloprid WAS effective, I was saying Amitraz was, which I quoted.

"Amitraz and Ivomec
This is from the product information:

INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER DRUGS

Ivermectin should not be used in combination with valium or related
tranquilizers (the infinitesimal doses used in Heartgard excepted). It
should not be used in conjunction with Amitraz (Mitaban©) dips nor with
Amitraz tick prevention collars (Preventic© collars). These medications are
all members of the monoamine oxidase inhibitor group and when they used
together their effects add together creating sedation and adverse neurologic
effects."

Posted by ahallada on 07-18-2007 01:35 PM:

Got it Darrel. Not sure how I missed that from your first post. We have had excellent results with the Amitraz collars (Preventic) in preventing ticks on dogs.

Thanks for posting the product label information regarding the use of Amitraz with Ivermectin. For some reason this drug interaction was not included in the most current Plumb's pharmacy book so I have posted a notice to the editors. This will be important for anyone using Preventic collars or the new ProMeris product from Fort Dodge and is using higher doses of Ivermectin.

Amitraz is also included in a new product from Fort Dodge called ProMeris, combined with a new drug that will prevent fleas for up to 6 weeks as well as ticks. The research looks very promising on this product so far and has been used in Europe for flea and tick control. We are waiting on FDA approval here in the US for use on dogs and the company expects release in the next few months.

http://www.fortdodge.eu/promeris.asp

Allen

Posted by Darrell on 07-23-2007 11:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ahallada
Got it Darrel. Not sure how I missed that from your first post. We have had excellent results with the Amitraz collars (Preventic) in preventing ticks on dogs.

Thanks for posting the product label information regarding the use of Amitraz with Ivermectin. For some reason this drug interaction was not included in the most current Plumb's pharmacy book so I have posted a notice to the editors. This will be important for anyone using Preventic collars or the new ProMeris product from Fort Dodge and is using higher doses of Ivermectin.

Amitraz is also included in a new product from Fort Dodge called ProMeris, combined with a new drug that will prevent fleas for up to 6 weeks as well as ticks. The research looks very promising on this product so far and has been used in Europe for flea and tick control. We are waiting on FDA approval here in the US for use on dogs and the company expects release in the next few months.

http://www.fortdodge.eu/promeris.asp

Allen

I need something I feel comfortable giving with Ivomec...

Posted by Melanie H. on 07-23-2007 11:58 PM:

Question.

Are you having to reapply when dogs get wet.. Not a bath, just a couple of swim races and my dogs are crawling with fleas again. I don't want to put it on them again if it is still in their system. Just put in on them last Wed.

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Posted by Darrell on 07-24-2007 12:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ladycathunter
Question.

Are you having to reapply when dogs get wet.. Not a bath, just a couple of swim races and my dogs are crawling with fleas again. I don't want to put it on them again if it is still in their system. Just put in on them last Wed.

I'd say no. It's not affective until it's absorbed into the dog's system, and therefore can't be washed off. Granted, I'm not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Posted by BRYAN J on 07-24-2007 02:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darrell
Granted,
I'm not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... [/B]

Thats a good one!

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Posted by Melanie H. on 07-24-2007 02:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darrell
I'd say no. It's not affective until it's absorbed into the dog's system, and therefore can't be washed off. Granted, I'm not a vet, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Well guess I should have stayed there instead of the Motel 6 then I wouldn't have had to ask...

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Posted by ahallada on 07-24-2007 06:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ladycathunter
Question.

Are you having to reapply when dogs get wet.. Not a bath, just a couple of swim races and my dogs are crawling with fleas again. I don't want to put it on them again if it is still in their system. Just put in on them last Wed.

Imidocloprid (Advantage and Bayer T&S Concentrate) doesn't go systemic. It stays in the oil (lipid) layer of the skin so anything that disrupts this lipid layer will strip the Imidocloprid from the skin. This would include soap shampoos mostly. Bayer did come up with some research to show that Imidocloprid will stay on the dog after bathing with a non-soap shampoo so theoretically swimming shouldn't affect the concentration of the insecticide on the skin. This is all assuming that the Bayer T&S Concentrate is the same makeup as Advantage and distributes and adheres to the oil layer in the same way.

I don't see anything wrong with putting this stuff in a spray bottle however and using lighter doses after bathing or swimming along the top line to keep concentrations high.

I'd recommend taking it with you if you are staying at either Motel 6 or Holiday in Express.

Allen

Posted by Melanie H. on 07-24-2007 06:44 AM:

Thank you Allen... I will try the spray bottle.. Seems to have settled down now that I am out of California and back into Oregon LOL

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Posted by ahallada on 07-24-2007 06:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darrell
I need something I feel comfortable giving with Ivomec...

Darrell,
The toxicologists don't feel that Ivermectin and Amitraz is a problem when used together and are not sure why Merial put this in their product label. Here is what I found.

"You can use avermectins and amitraz together. Avermectins work on GABA modulated chloride channels in mammals. Amitraz is a weak monoamine oxidase agonist. There is no interaction."

Tina Wismer, DVM
ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center
An Allied Agency of the University of Illinois
http://www.apcc.aspca.org
1-888-4-ANI-HELP

I'll see if I can get a response from Merial on this labeling.

Allen

Posted by Redwood Hounds on 07-26-2007 11:07 PM:

We picked up some fleas from an event and before we realized it, everyone had them.

We put it on everyone and within a day I couldn't find any fleas... I've taken my dogs swimming and hunting since, and still don't see any.

One of the dogs did break out with a big hot spot. Not sure if it was from the chemicals or if she was allergic to the flea bites, or maybe even something else. I know she gets welts form fly bites, so she could just be sensitive.

Seems to work good. I wont use it every month. But it will cure the problem fast! We really don't see too many ticks. But I did find one about a week ago. So it my help, but isn't fully effective.

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Posted by ahallada on 07-27-2007 01:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redwood Hounds
We picked up some fleas from an event and before we realized it, everyone had them.

We put it on everyone and within a day I couldn't find any fleas... I've taken my dogs swimming and hunting since, and still don't see any.

One of the dogs did break out with a big hot spot. Not sure if it was from the chemicals or if she was allergic to the flea bites, or maybe even something else. I know she gets welts form fly bites, so she could just be sensitive.

Seems to work good. I wont use it every month. But it will cure the problem fast! We really don't see too many ticks. But I did find one about a week ago. So it my help, but isn't fully effective.

Redwood,
The hotspot is probably from flea bite allergic dermatits. I got into a discussion once with a dermatologist from LA about hot spots, and he thinks that hot spots are always from an insect bite reaction. I'd have to agree with that although we do see these occuring in Rotweillers around the face in certain months of the year and we have fleas year round.

How long after the Bayer T&S was applied did you notice the tick? Some have commented that they started seeing ticks after 10-12 days.

Allen

Posted by Redwood Hounds on 07-27-2007 02:50 AM:

Well, it's been a few weeks since I applied it. So that makes since. But only one tick, on one dog. So not too bad.

I think she's just sensitve, she probably was allergic to the fleas... I think Hot Spots are more than just from insect bites. We had a show female get them about a week before she'd come in heat, her whole life. We also had Bulldogs get them, and I really don't think that was the case either. That's just a Bulldog thing, LOL.

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