UKC Forums - Proposal 7

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Proposal 7 (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928521914)

Posted by yadkintar on 09-07-2019 06:47 PM:

I can drive a bumper car at the fair ruthlessly

Tar

Posted by Sgraves on 09-07-2019 07:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
I'm with Richard on this. Count down is fine 3 min is fine. Think both was needed rules. But I dont like minus dog that cover after 3 min both ways for 2 reasons. 1 a dog that is treed and recut has to be real broke not to cover another dig treed close and I think a man shouldnt have break his dog not cover if he chooses. Makes pleasure hunt same dog you comp hunt harder for older people and kids. After all if your dog treed for 125 and dog cover and get 25 minus that giving you minimum 150 over covering dog. Second reason is lots young guys just starting out dont have dog skills train dog not cover or even have another dog to train there's with not cover. Lots young guys goin get discouraged when they eat big chunk of minus all time.

Here what I believe rule should be anything covers on dead tree coon, slick or circle delete strike give them 25 minus simple easy and seems more fair.

You would be surprise how quick a good sturdy green switch will work. Doesn’t hurt them , just gets their attention. Run them out of there a few times they will get the picture

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 09-07-2019 07:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
You would be surprise how quick a good sturdy green switch will work. Doesn’t hurt them , just gets their attention. Run them out of there a few times they will get the picture

I have no problem breaking dog not cover if that goin be rules we play by now. But I know few young guys that have 1 dog and no one hunt with close by them. What tree would you run them off of by there self to teach them not cover?

Minus dog for covering late yes it fault if dog is that slow or quit what he doin to cover. But don't cut mans throat where 1 tree takes him out hunt.

I personal dont care what or how we handle dog that covers late scratch em. I'm just trying think about people just starting out or guys been raising dogs under current rules for 20 years have change way he breeds and trains his dogs.

__________________
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s

Nathan Phenix
417-255-5697

Posted by Sgraves on 09-07-2019 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
I have no problem breaking dog not cover if that goin be rules we play by now. But I know few young guys that have 1 dog and no one hunt with close by them. What tree would you run them off of by there self to teach them not cover?

Minus dog for covering late yes it fault if dog is that slow or quit what he doin to cover. But don't cut mans throat where 1 tree takes him out hunt.

I personal dont care what or how we handle dog that covers late scratch em. I'm just trying think about people just starting out or guys been raising dogs under current rules for 20 years have change way he breeds and trains his dogs.

I understand what your saying . I started out with a good dog. People look at me crazy when I tell them I knew all the ways to cheat before I knew the rule book. The rule book still seems deceiving . It’s hard enough on young people as it is.

Posted by cole run on 09-07-2019 08:02 PM:

Richard I’m not trying to be a smart ass just trying to understand you said a couple of your dogs don’t like to cover , and i believe that in your part of the country coons are scarce so your dog might have to get in there a mile to find another one . So my question is how do they do in Indiana or Ohio where there are ten Coon in a ten acre patch if they don’t get treed first do they go another 100 yrds or so and get their own or do they still cover? And if you had a better Coon population would you still feel the same way? Where I’m from a dog don’t have to go but another couple hundred yards and their on another one.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 09-07-2019 08:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I can't wait to hear how you can walk 15 minutes out on the leash with 2 dogs treed and 1 on track at a AO and it's A ok?

Because the rules allow you to! Don't bring an honest win into this discussion trying to stir up trouble. You've been hunting long enough to know the rules. This one is nothing new. But I will post for you and those who may have read what you wrote.
11(b) After Arriving At Tree. After five minutes, first
dog’s tree may be scored. Dog should not be
minused tree points if he comes back a short
distance to meet handler if dog goes back in
and trees satisfactorily. Dogs at tree must be
leashed. Eight minutes of hunting time may
be used to shine trees. Individual holding first
tree controls shining of tree for first two min-
utes. Upon being scored, dog(s) must be
turned loose with other dogs that are opening
on trail to compete for next available strike
points. However, if dog(s) are already treed,
handlers have the option to hold onto or
release dog(s) so long as at least one dog is
not declared treed.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-07-2019 10:03 PM:

Mr Run, of course if I lived in Indiana my dogs would operate differently but I don't. It sure is hard for an old man to switch a dog and send her on when you are 1,000 yds from your truck and the next coon is another 5-800 yds. I actually have one of those independent dogs but he is at my buddy's house in Indiana. He is no fun for me to hunt. I actually know the difference between a dog that will back and one that is independent to a fault. I also know the difference between a me too dog and one that just gets beat on a tree. In 25 years I have owned and hunted with and against all types.
I know what type I like but I also know that everyone likes a different type and I am not about to tell someone else what type of dog they should hunt or that their type is a POS and should be assigned minus points so that I can beat them in a hunt.

Jen, surely everyone knows what happened. You don't need to stoop down to explain what happened. I just found it amusing that you were posting about the leash lock option after Dalton had just wisely used it as anyone would have done.

Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-07-2019 10:17 PM:

Your right, Richard

Can't lose with it on leash & don't have to gather dog up after hunt time expires. HAPPY< HAPPY< HAPPY. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-07-2019 10:22 PM:

Help, please

I typed for an hour in my 1 finger style under wrong post. Anyone that knows how to move, please go to 'Rules Proposal Results' & move to this area, PLEASE. I'm not re-typing that again. Thx. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-07-2019 10:54 PM:

How about this.....
The next rule change year I am going to propose that....
When 2 or more dogs are running a track and 1 gets treed but the other dog or dogs refuse to back him, they will be assigned next available tree and their strike and tree points will be minused for refusing to back and going on.

Posted by Chad spencer on 09-08-2019 01:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
that's just it I don't know the rules on that situation.
Let's hear where and what rule that is.be cause I never knew this could be done.

Bashing no
I'm I ignorant of the rules? Maybe

Yes I believe you were bashing and that’s the way it was taken. No need for crawdadding now just own it cause everyone knows what you were doing and it sucks. Good people with good dogs and look people gotta run them thru the ringer. Great job Dalton and the mafia gang.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 09-08-2019 04:22 AM:

For the record this is not a rule proposal we sent in to the walker breed for consideration so I'm not sure which breed proposed it or what the discussion was in the meeting on it.
What I can tell you is that it makes not treeing your dog in more consistent across the board by assigning next available tree points on coon as has been done on slicks and off game (registered) for years so this is not some big drastic change as some are making it out to be. Also, many times the dog(s) have been treed before the time on the tree has expired and for various handling decisions they have chosen not to tree their dog, it is not just about punishment for a late comer. Because it is not up to a judge to determine what time a dog that has not been treed arrived is why it is to receive next available tree points which in some cases can be as much as 75 points. This is not a new concept dogs have been receiving next available and splitting available in the case of multiple dogs not treed in for years. The countdown concept is easy if any dogs were actually treed in after the 2 any that were not treed in but are there receive 25 points each minus on tree points. The rest is no different than if you were splitting strike when turned loose. Add up available and divide by number of dogs not treed in.

Posted by Dave Richards on 09-08-2019 04:22 AM:

Pamjohnson

Why in the world would a good handler turn his dog loose again, when they had the hunt won? Dalton is an excellent handler and had nothing to gain by turning Shack loose again. He might have gotten hurt or anything happen to him, it's one thing to compete and another thing to take unnecessary chances. Knowing the rules is a must if you are going to compete at that level, knowing that ALL the other handlers will know the rules. Why would you question this decision, when NO ONE ELSE had said a word about it, except to mention that he done a great handling job, ( I was one that mentioned that fact ) Ignorance is only bliss if kept to ones self, not broadcast on a public forum. Nuff said. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 09-08-2019 04:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chad spencer
Yes I believe you were bashing and that’s the way it was taken. No need for crawdadding now just own it cause everyone knows what you were doing and it sucks. Good people with good dogs and look people gotta run them thru the ringer. Great job Dalton and the mafia gang.

Thank you Chad we do appreciate it.
BTW for any needing brushing up, current rules are available for download. If one hasn't taken the time to learn them they probably shouldn't be to concerned about any changes to them.

Posted by cole run on 09-08-2019 05:16 AM:

Richard nobody said you have to change but if you want to compete and win in this new forum you will. I have read posts for months saying attendance is down in ukc hunts .well ukc is a business and just like any other business they are going to do what they feel will bring more people to the hunts , thus more money in their pockets and anybody that thinks differently is sadly mistaken . So the way I see it you can either step up to the plate and do what you need to to compete if you love the competion end of this sport or you can sit back and complain and just pleasure hunt .but you do have a choice.

Posted by Dave Richards on 09-08-2019 05:37 AM:

Cole run

You tell him! Reminds me of that movie Grouchy old men. They don't call old men grouchy for nothing, just look at all their posts on this forum. Dang it's hard to be old even harder to be old and grouchy. Lol. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Rip on 09-08-2019 07:53 AM:

They screwed the pooch on this one. This is the stupidest thing that has ever happened to coonhunting. You are assigning more minus points to a dog than he could possibly get for being treed in.

Pitching just became the thing to do. I mean why not? If he isn't there the most minus you can get is 25 but if he is there and you don't pitch him you just got 75 minus. Just plain ignorant but the masses have never been known to be smart which is why we have a representative republic as opposed to a democracy.

In no way can this be described as intelligent or good for the coonhound. It just changed a rule "because".

Well get ready for the pitching to begin and the further and quicker decline in entrys.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Posted by yadkintar on 09-08-2019 12:51 PM:

Run your stop watch set on your couch watch it go to 2 minutes then to 3 minutes you only get minused after 3 then figure out what a slow poke dog you got to cover on the same coon after 3 minutes. If you got a dog treed 15 minutes from you and your dog when you pull off your tree runs right to that treed dog .................... you got nothing but a backpacker and you need to hunt more at home till you teach them not to do it.

Tar

Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-08-2019 01:24 PM:

Please READ

My post listed under 'Rules Proposal Results' before coming on here & think you know what you're talking about as far as assigning tree pts. are concerned. Many of you have no frickin clue as to how this will work on a 'real cast' type situation. Or someone move that post to this area, so everyone will understand how this new rule will be used. As Emet used to say"'Nuff said". Take care, Ron.

Posted by sleepy head on 09-08-2019 01:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Run your stop watch set on your couch watch it go to 2 minutes then to 3 minutes you only get minused after 3 then figure out what a slow poke dog you got to cover on the same coon after 3 minutes. If you got a dog treed 15 minutes from you and your dog when you pull off your tree runs right to that treed dog .................... you got nothing but a backpacker and you need to hunt more at home till you teach them not to do it.

Tar

Tar, I agree with you on the recut, running straight to a treed dog should be a fault in anybody's world. Not in agreement with beating the heck out of dog that tracked 3 minutes longer on a seen coon. The dog finished his track, may of started the track a 100yds, 200 yds... Beyond others. In my mind the punishment far out weighs the crime

Posted by sleepy head on 09-08-2019 02:58 PM:

Tar, per our conversation, show me a dog that picks up his head to catch up on track and I'll show you a dog that'll back a slick

Posted by Sgraves on 09-08-2019 03:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Tar, per our conversation, show me a dog that picks up his head to catch up on track and I'll show you a dog that'll back a slick

See what your saying. He picks his head up he’s more worried about what other dogs is doing. Some dogs are more competitive than their brain will allow. There is lots of dogs out there that will back a slick. To much tree an not enough sense to know the difference.

Posted by yadkintar on 09-08-2019 05:43 PM:

Curtis a dog that won’t pick his head up and catch up on the same track is like a runner in a track meet in the relay race that drops the patton and rufuses to pick it back up to finish the race.

Tar

Posted by sleepy head on 09-08-2019 05:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Curtis a dog that won’t pick his head up and catch up on the same track is like a runner in a track meet in the relay race that drops the patton and rufuses to pick it back up to finish the race.

Tar

He's also the dog that will bypass the tooth pick the others are cleaning their teeth on

Posted by Sgraves on 09-08-2019 06:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Curtis a dog that won’t pick his head up and catch up on the same track is like a runner in a track meet in the relay race that drops the patton and rufuses to pick it back up to finish the race.

Tar

Tar it makes me want to believe that if he wanted to run it with his head up he wouldn’t be playing catch up. Mess around an out run his nose.

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