UKC Forums - What's a good Accuracy??

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Posted by high ridge on 04-05-2018 12:27 AM:

This is the most honest discussion on accuracy that has ever been on this board. You either see them or you don’t.
If you got an 80% year around dog you should win world hunt multiple times. Anything over 60% of actually seeing a set of coon eyes or Coons body is well above Avery.

HOWEVER, I did have a possum dog that was a 100% accurate. I never walked to a tree and thought man he missed that possum. Always had them. I enjoyed him as much as any dog I ever hunted. I was young my buddies where young and we were death on possums and flashlight batteries.

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Posted by Jparker on 04-05-2018 02:47 AM:

Yea hunted with some great possum dogs need a possum world hunt and call it the sam cup but then there would be layup possum dogs and circle trees lol

Posted by Vic Stoll on 04-05-2018 11:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge
This is the most honest discussion on accuracy that has ever been on this board. You either see them or you don’t.
If you got an 80% year around dog you should win world hunt multiple times. Anything over 60% of actually seeing a set of coon eyes or Coons body is well above Avery.

Billy, it’s like spitting in the wind trying to get folks to accept reality. I’ve always said you get one that is 2 out of 3 (66%) year round using the coon seen or coon not seen method, you’ve got one that is well above average.

Yes there are dogs out there that may have better accuracy, but they are the exception and are few and far between.

Years back I kept track of a hound for a year using coon seen or coon not seen. To say I was shocked at the end of that year would have been an understatement! LOL

Makes for interesting discussions if nothing else!

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Posted by thomasg on 04-05-2018 01:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Allen
I got one female that is 100% accurate guaranteed to have fur in the tree every time.

i had one like that in the 80s .if he barked 3 times unless it was a place of refuge you would see eyes . border collie x australian shepherd . lol killed 54 coons 28 grinners 2 mink and one badger in his first season . enough $ to buy my first car at 16 years old and buy my school clothes .

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-05-2018 02:32 PM:

I see guys talking about the dog they have or had that was/is 80-90% accurate but they aren't saying anything about the 100 other dogs they had that were only 60%. What is the % of dogs that is 90% accurate? Maybe 1 out of 100?

Posted by N Williams on 04-05-2018 02:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Billy, it’s like spitting in the wind trying to get folks to accept reality. I’ve always said you get one that is 2 out of 3 (66%) year round using the coon seen or coon not seen method, you’ve got one that is well above average.

Yes there are dogs out there that may have better accuracy, but they are the exception and are few and far between.

Years back I kept track of a hound for a year using coon seen or coon not seen. To say I was shocked at the end of that year would have been an understatement! LOL

Makes for interesting discussions if nothing else!

Problem is vic you can't sell a 50% accurate dog. LolIf they can stay 50% in my country all year round there accurate. I've bought 1 my hole life that there accuracy was as advertised. That's why I can't sell a dog. I'm to honest. If there above 70% or above in my area there going to die here.

Posted by novicane65 on 04-05-2018 02:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I see guys talking about the dog they have or had that was/is 80-90% accurate but they aren't saying anything about the 100 other dogs they had that were only 60%. What is the % of dogs that is 90% accurate? Maybe 1 out of 100?

Richard I'd say it's more in the 1/1000 range. I've never done the seen or not seen avg. I've never counted anything but actual slick trees. I've walked to more slicks this winter with my male than I did in 5 years with my female. She may not tree every coon in the woods but when she trees your chances of seeing eyes are better than most. I guess ill have to keep track this year and see where she lands and the same for my male.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 04-05-2018 03:20 PM:

Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. If the owner tells you a dog's accuracy, automatically deduct 20%

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 04-05-2018 07:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thomasg
i had one like that in the 80s .if he barked 3 times unless it was a place of refuge you would see eyes . border collie x australian shepherd . lol killed 54 coons 28 grinners 2 mink and one badger in his first season . enough $ to buy my first car at 16 years old and buy my school clothes .

LOL mine is a JR X CHIWUAHWAH X POMERANIAN NAMED HONEY BOO BOO,

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 04-06-2018 04:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I see guys talking about the dog they have or had that was/is 80-90% accurate but they aren't saying anything about the 100 other dogs they had that were only 60%. What is the % of dogs that is 90% accurate? Maybe 1 out of 100?

Richard,

I have been staying out of this conversation, but I have kept records of the dogs I keep for several decades (1980s). Now, I am not going to say that through their development they may have slipped for a time being, but they were corrected. The far majority of dogs I have raised and owned have been 70-80% accurate. The way I keep accuracy records is more strict than anyone else I have seen. I only keep statistics when the leaves are off. If I cut a dog loose, and for what ever reason the dog is caught without treeing an actual seen coon, it counts against her.

I am a firm believer that most trainers or handlers cause a good percentage of slick treeing issues. I have seen it too many times repeated throughout the years by the same people.

I will also say I have seen nearly 100% accurate dogs more than a couple of times in my life time, but they also weren't top cooners either. Just some of my opinions based on a large number of dogs and actual numbers.

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Posted by joey on 04-06-2018 04:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. If the owner tells you a dog's accuracy, automatically deduct 20%

Ya I would say its in the EYE of the owner. I hunted a couple of times last year with a dog that was supposed to be really accurate. The owner "found a coon" in almost all of his trees. Problem was none of the rest of us could see anything but knots and dark spots on limbs.

Larry, I keep the same criteria but I do it in the summer as well. I'm sure that brings the numbers down some but I still find most of them. You are right we cause most of the slick treeing problems. Almost everything we do causes a reaction of some kind. Some intended and some not. Its the unintended problems that are the hardest to fix. I was trying to break Wood off of possums last year, I shocked him on a tree with a another dog on it. He kept treeing possums but left every tree a dog come to him on for 6 months after that. I finally got it fixed but thought I had ruined him. I finally stopped the possum treeing with a switch. He didn't associate the shocking with the possum treeing at all. If we could only understand how they really think this would all be a lot easier.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-06-2018 04:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Richard,....I have kept records of the dogs I keep for several decades (1980s)..

Larry, I am just curious but did you "not keep" dogs because they weren't accurate? It is refreshing to hear that the "vast majority" that you have kept were accurate.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-06-2018 04:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
...... If we could only understand how they really think this would all be a lot easier.....

That would take all of the fun out of it.

Posted by Larry Atherton on 04-06-2018 07:03 PM:

Richard,

Hmmm, I didn't really say they were accurate. I said typically they were 70-80% accurate. Isn't that two separate things?? There is always room for improvement.

Most all the dogs I raise I keep. Their accuracy was more for determining whether or not they were breeding stock. The most accurate dog I had was not breeding stock nor did I keep her. She was purchased for an outcross that never happened. My son's old dog went through a bad flying squirrel phase, but once she got past that she was one of the most enjoyable dogs to hunt night in and night out. My dogs are far from perfect, but the one thing I like is they are trainable. More than anything I can't tolerate stupid.

Joey,

I don't keep records in the summer time for a couple of reasons. The areas I hunt the understory is too thick to even get a light in the tree. The other reason is I can't see worth a hoot. My buddies make a big deal out of when I find a coon before them.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-06-2018 07:22 PM:

Larry, from what I have experienced, seen, read and heard 70-80% is "accurate" and you aren't going to get anything more out of a "good" comp dog. In order to get more than 80% accuracy you have to give up something in another area.

Posted by shane_atchison on 04-06-2018 08:46 PM:

I tallied up percentage at our club for 1 year. The winning cast average was 33% coon seen.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-06-2018 09:02 PM:

Oh my goodness....
I guess that accuracy in comp dogs and accuracy while pleasure hunting are two different things.

Posted by rooster731 on 04-06-2018 09:19 PM:

I will take a dog that will make a legit circle inside of an hour any day over a dog that takes 61 minutes to tree a coon. Of course a coon inside an hour is better but working cold tracks or finding coon where there are none takes time.

Posted by shane_atchison on 04-07-2018 02:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness....
I guess that accuracy in comp dogs and accuracy while pleasure hunting are two different things.

Nope, exact same thing. The only thing different is in a comp hunt every tree a dog makes is scored by multiple eyewitnesses and written on paper.

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Posted by 100%hunter on 04-07-2018 01:40 PM:

what's everyone's thought?

Is a good coon dog the same is a good comp dog? I know opinions very on what it takes to be both. just wondering?

Posted by shadinc on 04-07-2018 03:46 PM:

It's my belief that you can't be concerned with keeping accuracy records when leaves are on trees. I have a dog now that proved to be extremely accurate all winter with no leaves. When the leaves came back I found coons in only two of seven trees. Did that mean she was less accurate? Trying to figure accuracy with leaves on trees is kinda like umpiring a ball game blindfolded. You can't make a decision on what you can't see.

Posted by rooster731 on 04-07-2018 04:05 PM:

Back last summer early season opened on a wma i hunt regularly. My hunting buddy and i made several trees that we didnt see a coon in. His argument was leaves. It was late august and hot and dry. I would have believed the reasoning except my uncle and his buddy were turning loose behind us an seeing coon. Our dogs are as accurate as any when leaves are off but during cold weather scenting conditions change too. After i told him we didnt have the dog power to get it done in hot dry tough conditions he quit hunting with me. I totally agree that your not gonna see all the coons with leaves on but were we treeing old smart coons that night while my uncle treed stupid coon that would look at anything. I doubt it

Posted by joey on 04-07-2018 04:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rooster731
Back last summer early season opened on a wma i hunt regularly. My hunting buddy and i made several trees that we didnt see a coon in. His argument was leaves. It was late august and hot and dry. I would have believed the reasoning except my uncle and his buddy were turning loose behind us an seeing coon. Our dogs are as accurate as any when leaves are off but during cold weather scenting conditions change too. After i told him we didnt have the dog power to get it done in hot dry tough conditions he quit hunting with me. I totally agree that your not gonna see all the coons with leaves on but were we treeing old smart coons that night while my uncle treed stupid coon that would look at anything. I doubt it

X2

Ever notice on a cast in the summer how 3 of the dogs coons will not look but the 4th dogs always look? The leafs are out here, 1 hour pkc cast last night. We made 5 trees and seen all 5.

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