UKC Forums - HTX required for Nite Ch?

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-- HTX required for Nite Ch? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928501437)

Posted by yadkintar on 03-12-2018 10:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
No one deserves a win with one coon and 2 slicks. My dog is the same dog when he made grand as he was before he was put in his first hunt and i learned to loose a long time ago. They have to have a reason to come and getting a title isn't good enough anymore.

Why not they win major $$$ hunts like that and then they get bragged on. Ole wood ain't never had a bad night and won if not you don't need to be hunting with us peons anyways lol.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-12-2018 11:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Why not they win major $$$ hunts like that and then they get bragged on. Ole wood ain't never had a bad night and won if not you don't need to be hunting with us peons anyways lol.

Tar

Wood has had plenty of bad nights and will have a lot more I'm sure, but if he makes 1 coon and 2 slicks I will not be upset that I lost. I'll be upset with my dog.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 12:01 AM:

Joey we are both hard headed but I will plead my case nothing against wood if had a dog like him I would want to hunt him too I am not talking about the ntchs and grands your theory on them might be spot on. Soooo here we go from a $$$$ aspect I know you are a successful business man ......... If you went back to the old format registered dogs only place the cast winners first the place out through tenth place with non cast winners with plus points (if) numbers went up and you take a guy all he ever gets is a tenth place he has to get 12 tenth places plus a first to make ntch how much money if you had realisticly 5 cast winners and five non cast winners that would be 20 dogs instead 4 it's harder to beat 20 than it is 4 dogs at $20 is $80........... 20 dogs at $20 is $400 and ukc gets more money too. I can count 10 money hunters down here that do not register their dogs with ukc when people do that it's a recipe for disaster plus they have in the other kc's a winner no matter what.

You got to give them a reason to hang around and eat out of the kitchen it is important for the revenue of the club it takes all those things to make it work.

Hope you understand that's the best I can explain it.

Tar

Posted by Charles Pullen on 03-13-2018 12:27 AM:

Low hunt attendance

I know when I was young my parents use go and visit family and sit on the porch and talk but now everyone is busy with life just trying to keep their head above water .

Also places to hunt ... people used to laugh when they saw my permission permit book of about 40 places to hunt . But now it's about 5 . Now you caint walk no more than 500yds and you see a house light somewhere and everywhere. Building houses or the timber getting cut . Or deer hunters don't want a dog on the property.

This is what's hurting our hunts here in Va .

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Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 12:42 AM:

Charles is right, people do not socialize like they used too. I still go back to the club but not always.

Tar, I know what your saying and I'm glad people are trying to do something. I just don't think that will do much to bring anyone in and it sure will not pull from the other Kc's.

I think this will, have a hunt that requires you to hunt the local hunts and stay in a state race. Take the dogs from that race and send the to a national hunt. Use a slight increase in entry that all goes to a escro that is paid out at that hunt. Pay a big chunk of it to the first place dog. You could easily have a 100k payout to first place. They will come to the local ukc hunt on the weekend to stay qualified.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 12:50 AM:

Now I like that one !! I know I am going to say this wrong but at the bigger hunts have each cast member kick in $20 to pay non hunting judges make them come back and turn the card in to get paid. Some of this you what I mean is keeping hunters away I love a non hunting judge that way I don't have to carry the card and listen to my dog too.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 01:13 AM:

I don't mind them on late rounds of hunts, but I wouldn't want to see them at all the bigger hunts. You can't get enough qualified ones to put on a big hunt. Nothing is worse than giving all the power to a guy that doesn't know what they are doing. For the hunt I was talking about I would like to see it use plus point cast wins, 1st would carry no more weight than 10th. Just a cast win. Grands and nch hunt together. Your just looking for a cast win. Not a big score.

Posted by Charles Pullen on 03-13-2018 01:16 AM:

Most clubs have 6 hunts a year I believe. If they had a way of giving away a prize ( say a light ) to the person who entered the most club hunts & bench show etc in a year or UKC giving a gift to each state for the person that entered the most ukc combination of FT,WR,BS,NH events in a year . Don't know if it would help or not .

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Posted by Al Medcalf on 03-13-2018 04:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Pullen
Most clubs have 6 hunts a year I believe. If they had a way of giving away a prize ( say a light ) to the person who entered the most club hunts & bench show etc in a year or UKC giving a gift to each state for the person that entered the most ukc combination of FT,WR,BS,NH events in a year . Don't know if it would help or not .

The club I belong to has a handler of the year award. This year the prize is a dog box. You have to be a club member to be eligible ( dues are $20.00) . You get so many points for entering a hunt, so many points for a cast win and so many points for high scoring dog. The points are tallied at the end of the year.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 02:35 PM:

I asked several of my old friends last night about when the format change happened if we were asked our opinion and they said no it's like it is now you just hear it happened and you will like it lol. I would like to see the rules commitee comprised of hunters that still compete regularly in the hunts you know that bench in wallmart the one they call the dead ****** bench some of them look good on that bench.

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 03-13-2018 02:58 PM:

You have to give people something to hunt for. Joey stated the plan that would work. You want dogs at the hunts you have to have yearly races for the guys to compete for.

I went 60 miles one night last week to a Tuesday night hunt. 8 dogs there and some from 2 hours away. They came because they are in contention for the state race and want to stay in contention. The hunt has no expense, no dinners and was just profit for the club and the KC and the two winners probably broke even after expenses. But they kept the dream alive for the state leader. Also kept the dream alive for qualifying for larger hunts down the line. Plus they were doing what they loved to do. Coon hunt.

The hunt was held at a community civic center but the truth is no one even went inside the building. We all chatted outside for about 30 minutes and the drew out went hunting and went home. I was home by 11.

Whats wrong with incorporating something like this and keeping the weeknight and weekend hunts for state races and wins on the weekend for the titles or you could just change it all to points, hunt all dogs together and give them titles as they reach different point levels.

I think the drawback is the big change the KC would have to make on getting information out to the hunters and the expense of keeping up with all this and keeping it posted.
I think that getting information out to the hunters is UKC's biggest downfall. There was a world hunt last night and all the info is posted for all to see. UKC does not operate like that.

If UKC as Joey recommended would enter into the world of week night hunts and bigger prizes at the end of the year for those that were accomplished in the hunts that year. How many of the clubs would drop the competitions hunts and have UKC hunts. Like the club I went to last week. They are a strong UKC club in the state but have other hunts also. If UKC upped their game. Would they just convert to UKC hunts only.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 03:19 PM:

Bruce the only reason I am upping the pressure is last time the commitee got together they said nobody made them aware of the changes that they wanted made I believe this year they meet again no matter what you are competing against two kc's that have all those programs that you stated and no matter what you have a winner do I think making it harder to obtain a title is the answer no !!There already is a lack of interest as it is that would just make it worse. The answer is to give several different ways to get it. That's what the $$$ kc's have done just like you said. Hey except for every once in a while my time is up. But there was three different families at that little hunt I was at the other night with kids and grand kids that's who I am thinking about. Now I have said my peace I can't change nothing and what ever they decide I will have to live with.

Tar

Posted by sox12 on 03-13-2018 05:43 PM:

get them qualified for the world and get through to the second round of the world the have to hunt and tree a coon by themselves or your done thats more than a HTX title

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Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 06:50 PM:

Bruce, I'm not recommending week night hunts. There are few reasons for this. First it's a experiment that's already been done for years and in my opinion ruined the quality of the hunts. Like you said the hunt you went to had 8 dogs. That's common. Second we would try to pull hunters from the other Kc's and we can't do that competing with the other Kc's weeknight hunts. Let them run there races through the week and go to the few local ukc hunts around them. Remember quality hunts are what we want. We already have plenty of hunts drawing just a few dogs. Maybe it's an option down the road.

Give points to plus point cast winners, hunt grands and nights together, add $5 for every entry for a escrow, give 100k to fist place of the hunt off. You would be hunting the top dogs from each state win that and it's something to be proud of.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-13-2018 07:01 PM:

If all you GrNtCh are gonna show up to hunt against NtCh why don�t you show up and have a few GrNt cast and hunt for performance points? That�s what it was set up for but no one showed up! Or am I missing something?

Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 07:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
If all you GrNtCh are gonna show up to hunt against NtCh why don�t you show up and have a few GrNt cast and hunt for performance points? That�s what it was set up for but no one showed up! Or am I missing something?

What your missing is it wouldn't pay the gas money to go. The performance program didnt do what they hoped it would do and I do not think it ever will. It was great for the first couple of years when everyone was paying in and only a few were old enough to hunt. After that the point value dropped so not worth being the sole purpose to go. I dont think anyone will pull their old grand out to hunt this program. What will happen is after they make grand they will keep going with that dog. Instead of having to stop coming to the hunts until the next one is ready.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-13-2018 08:10 PM:

All I�m saying is when the performance started there was big money and the GrNt dogs Still Didn�t Show Up! So tell me why the NtCh dogs would show up to hunt against GrNtCh?

Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 08:58 PM:

By the time most of the first performance dogs made grand the points had already dropped. Also it took a long time before most even knew about it. By then they were not worth anything. Would you not bring a nch to a hunt because your going to hunt against grands? I don't think it will be a issue.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 09:10 PM:

Joey I am not good with that performance chart but if you bring your grntch and beat 3 ntch you will get about $50 or so you paid $20 to hunt and you got to wait a year for your money I don't think many guys would get excited about that but I might be wrong. You got two kc's that pay you that night and you get titles way up of the thousands of dollars you win. No matter how many ntchs you beat you will just be a grntch and that's the way most will look at it.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 09:22 PM:

Your exactly right, I'm not a fan of the program and think it's pretty much failed. What I'm talking about would have nothing to do with the performance program. Other than if you have a dog in it you would get points. Wood is not even in the program.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-13-2018 09:52 PM:

I don�t think you can build anything from the top down, GrNtCh are not coming back, they don�t even show up at the mini slams and not many go to RQE, Get you a young dog an start over! I personally will not hunt a dog that�s not Performance!
I would like to see 2 NtCh places at the local hunts, most hunts around here have 3 NtCh cast so let�s say we give 2 NtCh wins if you have 5 NtCh cast or more, I believe more NtCh dogs will show up.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-13-2018 10:25 PM:

I breed my own dogs I am sure there are a lot of people like me in reality a title on my dogs ain't going to mean nothing to nobody but me but that dog has to prove a lot to me before you see it in a hunt and I have never had a problem getting good money for an untitled top young dog.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-13-2018 10:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
I don�t think you can build anything from the top down, GrNtCh are not coming back, they don�t even show up at the mini slams and not many go to RQE, Get you a young dog an start over! I personally will not hunt a dog that�s not Performance!
I would like to see 2 NtCh places at the local hunts, most hunts around here have 3 NtCh cast so let�s say we give 2 NtCh wins if you have 5 NtCh cast or more, I believe more NtCh dogs will show up.

Your looking at it like its sole purpose is to allow guys to hunt grands, thats just a small portion of it. Its main purpose is to get the guy down the road from the club that goes pleasure hunting the night his club has a hunt a reason to come.

Posted by novicane65 on 03-13-2018 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
All I�m saying is when the performance started there was big money and the GrNt dogs Still Didn�t Show Up! So tell me why the NtCh dogs would show up to hunt against GrNtCh?

I think you're looking at it backwards. Why would the GrNtCh show up to hunt against the ntch?

But honestly I've said it before and I'll say it again. The reason the younger guys won't show up like myself to a ukc hunt is simple. In ukc you have to beat all the other dogs at the hunt for 1st place on your and only cast. There's no late rounds, so if you get dry holed your S O L. I have a hard time paying the entry $ when that happens. In $kc you only have to beat the dogs in your cast to advance. And it's more attractive that way. And I'm sorry but the dogs that back at 4 min don't deserve 75 or 50 points. They did 0 work on the track at that point. UKC needs to have a huge rule change and hunt format to be able to compete.
I've got a few places that I hunt on private ground that the scores would be good for around here. But not feeder bucket good. In the other kc's you don't have to worry about a guide taking a cast to hunt feeders. All you have to do is beat the other dogs in the cast you're on. It puts everyone on an even playing field that way.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-13-2018 10:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Your looking at it like its sole purpose is to allow guys to hunt grands, thats just a small portion of it. Its main purpose is to get the guy down the road from the club that goes pleasure hunting the night his club has a hunt a reason to come.

I�m not arguing just a debate, if a man lives just down the road from a club and would rather go pleasure hunting, he�s probably not a member or active in this club, tell me how letting him hunt his GrNt against a NtCh is gonna get him there?

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