UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Heavy Linebreeding (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928500444)

I bred two hard treedogs, both with great locates, but from two totally different lines, only one out of eight will tree at night.

LaFayette, Ga. 20 min.south of Chattanooga
20 yrs with the same line and no solid bawl mouth tree dogs yet
If there ever were I got a fix in Ole Tree Blaster.
Just that that ole boring Lipper scream and chop chop chop

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Not being a doubting Debbie buuuuuuuuuut ........... Lipper threw a bunch of dogs with a mouth like a cheeeewahwah lot more than the ones with a good mouth.


Tar

TAR we have had different experiences With Lipper because the one thing i new i could count on from him or his offspring was the "Mouth". What the heck were you boys breeding to him? lol

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Might be the 8 yrs difference in the Texas lipper and the Missouri lipper you think !!!


Tar

hey fasteddie, shoot me a phone number and ill text you a copy of some papers so you can see. in mine and only my own opinion, i like the briar creek blood. im trying to breed to and get the most of old Briar Creek Snake as i can get. from what i have and see, it seems he just might be the key. i like hard going, deep hunting, independent coondog that trees coons consistently. i dont care for chop mouth track dogs. my female is off alex combs hardtime eddie which is off of Harry making them cody jar bred on top and her mother is off a gr nt female off of cabin creek rowdy. as im sure u know, huck a buck and rowdy were brothers. the sampson dog i talk about goes back to buck and my female goes to rowdy. the pups when i get them will have same stuff top and bottom just in diff gens. thats gonna give me several shots of snake. time will tell if im right in doing this. im just an old mountain boy trying to make each gen a lil better. i dont have any HOF dogs or plaques at my house and prolly wont ever but im tryin to make better. i appreciate everyones view and opinions.

Go to you You Tube an listen to Lipper treeing. "Bawl mouth all the way". Now if he was such a good reproducer his pups would have Bawl mouths, line breeding on Lipper would even intensify this but the reason it don't is because he wasn't that good of a reproducer, I thought I already told you guys this about a half a dozen times.. LOL

Khester, Jim Ridge knows me and I know him, Jim has some of the dogs I trained in his bloodline, Look on your papers and see if you see Pine Knob Durango. Like I said you can breed them to each other and you will have good dogs, there is no trick to breeding those English lines you have, some of the dogs in that bloodline I held in my hands when they were babies....

durango in there several times. i like this line and im trying my simple minded best to keep it here. the young female off sampson we like so much, i have been in touch with chris about his opinion on breeding her to steel. plus we have bartlett kimbroughs dog swag not far. a friend of mine just bred to swag so may get a female there and breed ours to steel for future gens. Also would love to breed a female to wicked vapor but have been told they wont breed him. maybe down the road vapors owners will start breeding him some.

We took Gr. Nite Ch. Raffles Billiejo out to Hank Horn's house in Indiana and bred her to World Champion Timber Star Buck. That would be Durango's Sire and Dam, Durando would be Michigan Swamp Roosters half brother, Man, I knew what for dogs you had just by the way you said they hunted sounded and treed. Boy, do I know what I'm talking about or what.. HEHEHEHE WaHOWEEEEEEE! LOL!!

I know a lot more about the Walkers then I do the English. But the English breed is hard to beat! Hunted them for years all over the country.....

hey fast, lipper did sound good but for my money, nothing beats BONE COLLECTOR. that locate made chill bumps on me and im cold as ice normally. and he could reproduce. dont know much about walker lines but i loved hearing bone tree on video. never got to hear him in person.

Khester, Check your emails!

We experimented with all different strains of English with great results, Smiths Hard Time Rocky was good and anything that goes back to Bershires Blue Boy II. I have seen a lot of dogs off them that was great. Durango at 6 month old could tree a coon, by 10 months old the guy that owned him turned down $10,000.00 for him, he was that good. I have videos of him treeing from days gone by. I will try to post a picture of him. I hunted with Blue Grass Amos when Frank Martin from Alabama owned him, I think Eddy Parker handled him for Frank. Eddy Parker owned World Champion Nelsons Radar. Amos was about as nice a hound as I have ever seen, (In the English Breed) a matter of fact we bred a female to Amos. Had several out of him that made Gr. Nite.

sorry i missed your call earlier. u can call me anytime

hey fast, i emailed u a copy of the top half of the young dog we hunting. she loaded with all the dogs u have mentioned. lots of hardtime rocky on bottom. mich swamp rooster on top and virginia swamprooster on bottom. and this lil female could strike, run and tree her own coon all by herself with absolutely no help well before 10 months old with a mouth that will make anybody take notice. she turned yr old in feb. if she were a ss pup the pkc world would be lined up trying to buy her.

Pine Knob Durango and Michigan Swamp Rooster have the same mother, there half brothers, but Durango was the better one, he was Louder, bigger, and was the first English to produce a All Grand litter. He weighted around 100 lbs. plus he was better lookin then Nocturnal Nailor. His head was twice as big as Nailor's. Hunted Durando with a dog called Jikffellao's Cujo look on them papers for that dogs name he was off Rocky.

I know a lot more about the Walkers then I do the English. But the English breed is hard to beat! Hunted them for years all over the country..... But always had a Walker dog in the truck..... Looking at the Hall of Fame Plaque on the wall, a little dusty but it's there. He was a Half brother to Tar Rattler, only difference his mother was a daughter of River Bend Flag, and that was a Big difference. He was bred just like Yadkin River Champ but Mindy was his mother not his grand mother like Champ.... They were good in their day but, There are better Walker's out there now. There is enough blood out there now you would not have to use a straw to get what you want, Remember: when you use a straw you are going backwards my friend.

Not necessarily going backwards, could be you're trying to reinforce what's already there. But one thing is definitely true. There's far less track driving dogs these days than there was even 15 years ago. Think about the last time you were at a hunt and heard a group of guys talking about track driving dogs. Now think about tree dogs? I'm not saying there isn't track dogs around but not like there is tree dogs. Imho we might have gone slightly too far on the tree and left the track back 15ish years ago. Not sure where you live. But in the area I live you need more of a track dog. But coon hunting around here isn't real popular. Not like in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan areas. And hence where there's more interest with a different need in dogs you'll have different dogs. Or if you're line breeding like Hobo, you're not going backwards. You're moving your breeding program to the next step.

Eeeeeeeeedrew if I could get a straw I would use it in a heartbeat. But that ain't going to happen so I use what's available ain't going to need many more puppy's lol.

Novicane65. Breeding Walker's you have to know what your doing because 75% of them don't have it. Most of the time when you hunt or talk to someone with Walker's good chance your looking 0r talking to that 75%.. I may even up that to 80 to 90% are the type dogs your talking about can't tree a coon, just a tree..

Not necessarily going backwards, could be you're trying to reinforce what's already there. But one thing is definitely true. There's far less track driving dogs these days than there was even 15 years ago. Think about the last time you were at a hunt and heard a group of guys talking about track driving dogs. Now think about tree dogs? I'm not saying there isn't track dogs around but not like there is tree dogs. Imho we might have gone slightly too far on the tree and left the track back 15ish years ago. Not sure where you live. But in the area I live you need more of a track dog. But coon hunting around here isn't real popular. Not like in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan areas. And hence where there's more interest with a different need in dogs you'll have different dogs. Or if you're line breeding like Hobo, you're not going backwards. You're moving your breeding program to the next step..

What do you mean when was the last time you seen a group talking about track driving dogs, I never stopped talking about them. and we never looked at each other and said we should go and find the last living dog off John Monroes Finley River Chief and breed to him to put some track in are dogs. Here is some advice when someones talking like that at a hunt, Act like your getting a call on your cell and walk off, don't go back, go out in your truck and take a nap...

Eeeeeeeedward so what are they doing if when you cut them and they start barking and they don't shut up and you find them over a mile deep with a kitten coon up a bush if they are not driving a track ?




Tar

ok tar, i gotta ding u on that last post....i dont think a kitten gonna run a mile , unless its got long legs and a spot for horns...but in your defense, it is driving a track!!

I know and you know what they are doing but hey they are cashing checks for it lol.




Tar