UKC Forums - Change is a coming!!!!

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Change is a coming!!!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928499936)

Posted by joey on 02-12-2018 02:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bowling41762
Boys what about a state race with a 16 dog field in each state hunting for a cash prize. Develop a point system to use for each state. $20 entry fee at a local event. UKC gets $2 a dog, put $3 in an escrow then the club gets $15 a dog. I know people are gonna say that’s gonna cost the club. Look here 10 dogs at a hunt that’s $30 the club looses. However the state race will pull in a cast or two of grnts that will make up for it. Ok think about what a jackpot each state could build up from January 1st- Dec 31st at $3 for every dog entered. In some states this could reach a 5 digit jackpot. Now that would bring the entries back up, maybe even to an all time high. The clubs gets less $ per dog but the entries will probably double. The key is developing a really fair point system. Now this could be tricky but building the escrow is simple and will get entry numbers up.

There is not a need in the club getting less money, just charge what ever amount they decide above normal entry and place that in an escrow. 3 to $5. Your looking at somewhere around a $200,000 purse.

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Posted by joey on 02-12-2018 02:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MR.RATMAN
You can't build what isn't there. The local hunts are dead because you don't have the hunters around like the old days. And when new people do show up they aren't welcomed in to the clicks just like this forum with the big head egos. Change needs to be made umungst yourselves not the organization.

Although there might not be what there used to be there are still more there then what is coming. We had a non sanctioned hunt at a club north of me. They normally get around 10 dogs total. They had over 40 dogs. All local guys, there are people in my town that coon hunt and I don't know them.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-12-2018 03:25 PM:

So why do hunters show up for a non-sanctioned hunt but not a sanctioned hunt.

Posted by BGathright on 02-12-2018 03:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Now , now Dave I addmit I been trying to turn a sows ear into a silk purse one slick, two dens , and three coons up one tree last night you see coons setting up and the second you hit them with they light they are coming down. Richard I was beginning to wonder I only been nagging them 5 yrs lol whew they got thicker hide than me lol. Ada Oklahoma is next month that's all corey could talk about last night I am having a good time even a bad hunt is a good hunt.

Tar

Robert,

Not to hi-jack this thread but you mentioned something above about coons coming down. Nearly every coon I have treed in the last 6 weeks have been coming down, jumping from trees even before any squalling has started.

Never seen it like this before. Thoughts?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-12-2018 03:38 PM:

I know right can't explain it some of these slicks I been making they run red hot a crappen long ways and it's always a tree growing way over into anouther I think some are timbering out.

Tar

Posted by georgef072007 on 02-13-2018 02:48 AM:

Re: John D

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
The few big Ukc hunts are not the problem, its the multitude of small clubs that are having problems. A few big hunts do not produce a significant number of champion degrees. Fix the issues with smaller clubs or watch the program suffer! Dave

Couldn't agree more Dave. I think that one of the problems that the small clubs have in getting the m=numbers up is very simple. UKC is allowing way too many hunts. 7 hunts per club per year is way too many in a state, people don't have to travel as much to find a hunt and if they miss a couple it's no big deal since there is one about every weekend pretty close by. Now too many dogs are getting cheap and easy titles because if the weather is even a little less than perfect, most people stay home. Back a few years ago, there weren't as many clubs, and they only had 5 hunts a year so people that wanted to title their dog had to go to every hunt they could to get it done before the dog died from old age. Now they can pick their nights and go to hunts with 2 or 3 dogs in them and not have to leave their own back yard. I think UKC needs to cut out about a third of the clubs in most states and go back to 5 hunts a year to get the remaining clubs healthy again before they all go broke and fade away.

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Posted by georgef072007 on 02-13-2018 02:48 AM:

Re: John D

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
The few big Ukc hunts are not the problem, its the multitude of small clubs that are having problems. A few big hunts do not produce a significant number of champion degrees. Fix the issues with smaller clubs or watch the program suffer! Dave

Posted by Dave Richards on 02-13-2018 03:36 AM:

George

Thanks for your post, I am seeing way to many one horse clubs starting up to benifit a few individuals putting wins on subpar dogs hunting on buckets. Then you have 3/4 member clubs griping about low numbers and losing money, just what are they thinking? It takes a large number of members in a club working together to have a sucessful club. Clubs should be held to a minimum number of entries to hold a hunt or the wins do not count. Imo Dave

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Posted by Nathan Phenix on 02-13-2018 02:29 PM:

My two cents it cost aboiut what it's worth.

I say hunt all dogs together keep titles requirements the same. ( make titles mean something even if number dont go way back up)

Make qualifying for zones go by cast wins. (Should make entry's go back up some) this would put more load on ukc to put out a standings list.

Also take small amount maybe dollar out each entry and have either a national or individual state hunt with the added money for all dogs paid up in performance. (Won't be a lot money but should be enough to add interest in program) 80% for dog entered 10% for Dam and Sire.

One thing about change is it won't never please everyone and nothing has to be in stone and like it can't be changed back if something doesn't work.

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Posted by MIKE CARDER on 02-13-2018 02:38 PM:

Great Question Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So why do hunters show up for a non-sanctioned hunt but not a sanctioned hunt.

They will drive a Hundred miles for a Non Sanctioned hunt but not a sanctioned? Makes perfect sense to me.

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 02-13-2018 02:58 PM:

Tar are you coon rutting? Ours seem to be and we are treeing a lot of boars and they are traveling a long ways.

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-13-2018 03:08 PM:

Seeing some crazy stuff Bruce stuff I ain't ever seen before. It's really dry I am the worlds worst about looking at a tree way before I get to it you hit that tree with the light the coons start down or cross out before you can get there we are running them a long ways red hot this female don't miss much but more dens and slicks than coons on the outside.

Tar

Posted by tripple river on 02-13-2018 03:32 PM:

I think bowling41762 & joey are on to something that would work .I like a state race with a higher entry and then state leaders hunt for a Prize or cash that rivaled the other kc’s .it would get all the other kc hunters at least hunting more ukc and guys already going to ukc going to more. Having said that I do like the way ukc has always been more inviting for someone to start competing with there dog but not put you in the poor house but with lack of hunters today maybe it’s time to diversify and become attractive to more hunters with different motivation.maybe make it mandatory state leaders have a cast win in rqe or something. I like the idea of state competitors drawing separate from guys just wanting to get a title .I think it’s something worth trying to work on that may actually work.

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Posted by tripple river on 02-13-2018 03:32 PM:

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-13-2018 03:53 PM:

Re: Great Question Richard

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE CARDER
They will drive a Hundred miles for a Non Sanctioned hunt but not a sanctioned? Makes perfect sense to me. ?

Most are a way better payout with less headache. It does make sense

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Posted by Todd_Miller on 02-13-2018 07:29 PM:

The hunts are dead because I can go to a hunt 6 days a week. Less hour hunts during the week will equal more draws on the weekend.....

Posted by pabeagler on 02-13-2018 08:06 PM:

The ukc needs to educate and certify judges . Then hold them accountable to judge the whole hunt time and return the scorecard to the moh. This would be a good start. Ask a scoring question on here and you will get 10 different answers from 10 different people, all who are regularly assigned the task of judging

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Posted by KevinP on 02-13-2018 08:33 PM:

Because you cant buy nothing with a Win slip and a block of wood. It takes money to get there, the club wants to make money, so why can't the hunter win some? Have a payout and forget that performance stuff.

Posted by Todd_Miller on 02-14-2018 01:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KevinP
Because you cant buy nothing with a Win slip and a block of wood. It takes money to get there, the club wants to make money, so why can't the hunter win some? Have a payout and forget that performance stuff.

Half the time your not putting any money in your pocket on $30 or $50 hunts. Lets be real your paying the money won on your dog.....
and unless the breakdown on the draws pay more than the entry, you just might get lucky to
put some gas in truck or eat while your there.

Posted by wjoey on 02-14-2018 03:41 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar are you coon rutting? Ours seem to be and we are treeing a lot of boars and they are traveling a long ways.

They are up here bruce and tapping every tree along the way.

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Posted by kybufford on 02-16-2018 03:03 PM:

Right now they'er are probably more people coon hunting around here then 10 years ago. The problem with the those people not going to club hunts is listening to the guys talk about being cheated or talk about how you run a slick treeing dog when the leaves are on. Nothing will ever be a perfect setup but im not throwing away money for a title that doesn't mean that much when this turtle shell dog has one. The closest i came to going to club hunt is when htx hunts came out. I think some clubs have got themselves in a position where they wont say the right thing or do the right thing because it will run off a few of the regular members that they do have. We take a handful of kids every weekend hunting and some own their own dog, some want to, and some just want to hunt. But we have alot of future coon hunters here i dont know what it would take to get them in a club hunt. Most guys have turned away from club hunts other then the usual click and just pleasure hunt.

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Posted by Stan Ferrell on 02-16-2018 04:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pabeagler
The ukc needs to educate and certify judges . Then hold them accountable to judge the whole hunt time and return the scorecard to the moh. This would be a good start. Ask a scoring question on here and you will get 10 different answers from 10 different people, all who are regularly assigned the task of judging

Plain and simple rules, don't need to read a book. The rules should fit on the back of a credit card in large print. The first time I went to a hunt and we wasted 10 minutes each, looking at 4 different, obviously empty trees, and spent a half hour arguing over how to score the dogs, and we had yet to see a coon. That is what keeps good honest hunters from coming back.

Posted by Stan Ferrell on 02-16-2018 04:45 PM:

Just for the fun of it " how many scoring scenarios are there when there is no coon seen"?

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 02-16-2018 05:07 PM:

Numbers will not increase at each hunt until the number of hunts per night are decreased. There are too many hunts on each night, the dogs are spread out. Duh...

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by MIKE CARDER on 02-16-2018 07:51 PM:

Exactly

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Numbers will not increase at each hunt until the number of hunts per night are decreased. There are too many hunts on each night, the dogs are spread out. Duh...

That’s exactly what I have been saying. I can actually go to a hunt almost every night of the week within an hours time.

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