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-- question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928427116)

quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
So if there is a grinner up the tree instead of a slick the dog is scratched?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
So barking or not, a dog at the tree is scored as a dog treeing?

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You can't use a minus tree rule to minus strike only. I ok with using 4-k. But you have to minus strike and tree both. Under that interpretation 3rd dog that never barked would be given his tree and minused also. He's just guilty of being where he shouldn't have been as dog 3. That is more fair than using a minus tree rule to minus strike. You can not use a minus tree rule to minus strike only.

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Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Allen, there is no such rule to support what you are saying. It appears to me you are saying we apply half of rule 4-k, the strike half but not the tree half. That's a new one on me.

I can only find two rules that could be applied to this situation described in the first post on this thread. One is 4-f which covers a dog at a closed tree but not declared treed......and the other is 4-k which covers a dog treeing but not declared treed when the judge arrives.
It seems to me the only thing we need to know here is whether or not a dog not barking is to be judged as treeing when that dog is at the tree when the judge arrives. If that dog is judged as a treed dog based on the fact that it is at the tree when the judge arrives, barking or not, then we would have to apply 4-k, every bit if it.
If the dog is only judged as a treed dog if it is actually tree barking, then in this instance we would have to apply 4-f and circle the strike because no coon is seen.
Brujan's original question is very easy to answer once we know if his dog is to be judged as a treed dog or not. That is what needs to be answered here.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Jim put it much better than I did. You use 4k or you don't.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

So what if its circle tree. Do we minus dog his strike cause evidently he quit his track and came to hang out at this tree to see what'd going on. I mean he at tree so he sure aint trailing whatever he was.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

I can't but argue both sides. If I'm trying to win a hunt, I'll take my minus. But you need to show me a rule shows my dog is minused.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
So what if its circle tree. Do we minus dog his strike cause evidently he quit his track and came to hang out at this tree to see what'd going on. I mean he at tree so he sure aint trailing whatever he was.

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

why was the dog handled?was there a need to call time out?when the last time a judge told anybody to handle a dog?

Judge should always tell you to handle any dog at a tree.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JiM
[B]Allen, there is no such rule to support what you are saying. It appears to me you are saying we apply half of rule 4-k, the strike half but not the tree half. That's a new one on me.

It's the slick tree part that makes 4(k) the one and only rule to apply to this dog. And you're right, it is what I am saying. There's no other rule that applies. None. The difference is that you have a dog that is there at the tree but you're saying it hasn't made a bark on tree. So actually it's the latter part of that rule that brings the debate on whether to award tree points and minus anyway, or not.

I'm not surprised that you say it's new but, again, I am 90% sure that is the way it has been ruled on in the past.

Allen called, he's sticking with 4k.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

quote:

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Originally posted by brujan182
Judge should always tell you to handle any dog at a tree.

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quote:

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Originally posted by brujan182
Judge should always tell you to handle any dog at a tree.

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All 3 dogs where at the tree when we got there.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

yep that them 30% Jim.

I'm still a little confused from page 1. Do I understand correctly that this tree was standing when the dogs 1st treed on it and fell into the water after they initially treed on it?

The way I understand it is, the tree fell in the river and coon paddled away on it

i cant help it LMAO, would you say these dogs were 90% accurate dogs or more like 50%, lord i apologize

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Bryan Link
814-691-5732

If it was a raging river. That could be a place of refuge.

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Michael Ghorley

quote:

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Originally posted by dchartt
i cant help it LMAO, would you say these dogs were 90% accurate dogs or more like 50%, lord i apologize

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
If it was a raging river. That could be a place of refuge.

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Sounds like the dog that wasn't treeing should be the winner. At least it wasn't treeing on it.

__________________
Joe Mueller
Ntch PR''Crow Creek Hillbilly Harley
Ntch pr"J and R's Hillbilly Jilly
Grnitech pr" Crow Creek Hillbilly Hammer
Grnitech pr" Crow Creek Tree Rockin Ruby
Ntch grch pr Crow Creek Hillbilly Harley Jr
Ntch ch pr Crow Creek Hillbilly Blaster
Ntch ch pr Crow Creek Hillbilly Holly