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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Direct from UKC Legal Counsel (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928409685)

True. Very true. But we as sportsmen need to get more involved in the wording of these laws. The way I see it, is we need better organization as houndsmen and a one source in lobbying for us?

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Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Farm bureau has always been hunting dog supporters!!!

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Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

once upon a time cock fighting was a southern tradition game cocks were passed down kept in the family much like the family silver and grandmas ring I still recall the day the papa gave me mine he said don't sell em keep em pure just like they been the last 100 years don't let em get away from ya then the animal rights agenda got a bill and law passed in ark I watched horrified out the window in the middle of the night at the blue lights and armed men as they swooped in on me like I was a james gang member they took my birds to the pound where they out of ignorance put them in a pin together when the sun come up before the caretakers could make pets out of em the game cocks true to generations of care and breeding had fought to the death with only 2 left so badly damaged they put em to sleep charges were dropped 4 lack of evidence I still remember how the police talked about just getting a warrant 4 the dogs and comin 4 them latter I had 2 walker hounds think it cant happen to you better fight any law that intrudes on anything you hold dearly look how easy the heath care insurance law passed despite all the negative response to it whats next your guns and your dogs

Todd

Todd, If I was in KY and Had an ole pig and I liked to hog hunt, I could not let my dogs fight or interact with the pig for training purposes? What about a hog bay? Not everybody here just coon hunts, hounds we're built and bred for big game alike. Please answer this question for me. Also does UKC support hog bays? Thanks

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Since they support this bill I bet hog bays are off limits.

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quote:

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Originally posted by walkerman75
he wont b a felon for training his hog dog if he aint got 20 people standing around laughing an videoing it for social media.. trust me i am an avid hunter an i know what has to b done to train a dog.. but the internet full of tree huggers dont need to see it,, thats where all the trouble comes from.. 25 yrs ago before internet was here people did all the same things we do now an nothing was said

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Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

quote:

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Originally posted by berger
You make a great point and a very smart one at that. I am presuming you are up in age and probably not going to be able to hunt in 25yrs. 25 yrs. ago a child was unruly and they got spanked people called that good parenting. Today that will be called child abuse child taken away from parent and parent imprisoned.
The way this law is written will give you the right to hunt today and 25yrs. from now your hounds will be taken from you and you will be imprisoned. That is why this law needs to be rewritten or opposed, but no way should this bill be supported by hunters or organizations that they say they are for hunting and free casting of dogs.

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Matthew Fann
816-565-1660

They write these bills in broad terms so a judge as the ability to interpret them as see fits.Then they find a judge on there side an bingo where all felons.At least if you live in KY

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If You Don't Have A Tree Dog Then You Ain't Got $hit

It doesn't take a genius to realise that HSUS, PETA and the like consider coyote hunting with hounds to be a form of dog fight--they say that explicitly all over the Internet. We are talking about people who don't understand the natural world, and don't want us to do what we do with hounds. To me, there is a huge difference between putting two domesticated animals in a confined space to fight to the death and letting a hunting dog catch its wild quarry on the ground.
This proposed law does not capture that difference and should not be supported by UKC.
Even if all the other states already did use this language==and that is a highly dubious claim-- it glosses over the critical difference between our registered hounds and what they hunt. There is no logic to claiming that 49 (or 5) wrongs make a right. We are proud of our hounds and what they are bred to do with considerable heart and passion.
We are happy to see UKC take a stand against dog fighting, but that's not the only thing this bill does. What this bill does is make the difference between dog fighting and hound hunting a difference of degree, not a difference in kind, and once you've done that, the line can be moved easily, leaving your registry in a shambles and our sport endangered.

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esp

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Originally posted by ADAWG1189
I do not agree with the ukc getting in bed with HSUS but if they didn't support this bill there would be a whole lot of people on here griping and complaining about the UKC supporting dog fighting..... But 1 thing is for sure sittin on here complaining about it sure wont fix the problem

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quote:

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Originally posted by ADAWG1189
I am wanting to trade my 10 month redbone female for a feist dog, I prefer 1 that is at least started on squirrel. My redbone is full blooded but she doesn't have papers, she is started on coon hide

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quote:

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Originally posted by ADAWG1189
I have a ten month old female redbone shes lightly started on hide.. She needs worked with. No papers I never received her puppy papers from her previous owners.
$150 obo.. Can e-mail or txt pictures

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quote:

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Originally posted by ADAWG1189
iv been feeding the puppy chow to my pup for about a month my only complaint is loose stool

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Originally posted by ADAWG1189
sounds to me like a whole lot of grown men want sit and nitpick about something that clearly talks about hunting dogs and the use of dogs for hunting is not a crime unless you do not have a license.. just my opinion but a lot of people are readin too much into this...

( Thank you Sara for what you have done so far please keep fighting the good fight and remember who's side your on )

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Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

bobbycagle1


i agree that us as houndsman need to stick togeather.. its just my opinion but i believe the term four legged animal is there becouse they are talking about dogs fighting hogs.. witch goes with what i was saying about people posting videos of dogs an hogs in a pen fighting... that kinda looks the same as 2 dogs in a pen fighting dont it.. im not agreeing with anything. i suport hog hunters. im a houndsman, all im saying is like i said before. some bad apples have ruined the whole pie. by posting videos that should have been left for there home viewing.. thats y the wording says four legged animals. but thats just my opinion...


and i seen the part about dogs an hogs on another post that that stumbo guy said

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KY ST § 525.125 - 135; KY ST § 436.610
These Kentucky statutes represent the state's anti-cruelty and animal fighting provisions. Under the law, animal cruelty in the first-degree (a class D felony) occurs when a person causes four-legged animals to fight for pleasure or profit. Exclusions under this section include, among others, the killing of animals when hunting, fishing, or trapping; as incident to the processing as food or for other commercial purposes; or for veterinary, agricultural, spaying or neutering, or cosmetic purposes.




this is what kentuckys bill aleady states..

am i wrong. if so let me know ..

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quote:

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Originally posted by walkerman75
bobbycagle1


its just my opinion but i believe the term four legged animal is there becouse they are talking about dogs fighting hogs.. witch goes with what i was saying about people posting videos of dogs an hogs in a pen fighting... that kinda looks the same as 2 dogs in a pen fighting dont it.. im not agreeing with anything. i suport hog hunters. im a houndsman, all im saying is like i said before. some bad apples have ruined the whole pie. by posting videos that should have been left for there home viewing.. thats y the wording says four legged animals. but thats just my opinion...


and i seen the part about dogs an hogs on another post that that stumbo guy said

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Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

here are the articles

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2979220


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ociety-dumpster

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Iraq Vet, 03-05, 05-07, 09-10

Phone number 270-820-5560

If I am running a dog in a fox pen or coyote pen,I have put the dog in there with intent to hunt or molest the game. If fight broke out,I could be guilty based on word use. Hunt or molest. That is why wording is so important. These attorneys make millions on loop hole wordings. I pretty sure most of the injury attorneys we see on tv win cases through loop hole.

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Get a Good One

"Four legged animals" should be more specific to their intentions. Their very crafty at what their doing. They call it a dog fighting bill, and lead you to believe its about dogs fighting dogs, however, its far from that.

Do you who agree with this bill honestly believe that hsus and peta are not paving an inroad to stopping hound hunting? Their starting with the hog dogs.!

And yes walkerman, them dead gum YouTube videos didn't help matters! But listen, hsus and peta's heart has always been anti hounds and stopping our free casting rights. Everything in this country moves west to east. It all started in California and moved this way!!!

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Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

quote:

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Originally posted by bobbycagle1
Farm bureau has always been hunting dog supporters!!!

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Re: Direct from UKC Legal Counsel

IMO, most of us are conditioned to always disagree with HSUS and PETA and those other anti organizations. Usually what they want to do is contrary to hunters' interests.

But that's kind of a blind, knee jerk reaction, isn't it? Just because people from HSUS breathe, doesn't mean we should stop breathing, does it? If UKC tells us we should breath air, does that mean they sold out to HSUS?? No way. That's ridiculous but that's exactly the logic of a lot of posters on this subject.

As far as whether this law has any new effect on coonhunting, an actual lawyer posted this:

quote:

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Originally posted by S Chisnell

So you can see that hunters are already currently exempted and that will not change with the proposed bill, as I have previously stated. Ths exemption for hunters has existed for 20+ years and has worked to protect hunters all that time--nothing changes that now. .

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Moll
Below is a synopsis of the letter that PKC to the Kentucky State Legislature concerning KY House Bill 154.

[b]On behalf of the Professional Kennel Club, LLC (PKC) and our numerous clubs and members who reside in Kentucky, we respectfully urge amendments to KY House Bill 154, as shown below.
- Line 10 (2) Any person who knowingly owns, possesses, for the primary purpose of fighting a dog with another dog for pleasure or profit is guilty of animal cruelty in the first degree.

- Line 14 (3) Activities of dogs engaged in hunting, field trials, dog training, bench shows, and dogs that guard livestock shall not constitute a violation of this section.

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If only UKC would give the same proposal as PKC it would make us vigilante,slobber mouthed people feel better. They did have enough foresight to include word dog and exclude four legged animal. Even the lawmakers said four legged animal needed to be refined.

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Get a Good One

quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
If only UKC would give the same proposal as PKC it would make us vigilante,slobber mouthed people feel better. They did have enough foresight to include word dog and exclude four legged animal. Even the lawmakers said four legged animal needed to be refined.

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Re: Re: Direct from UKC Legal Counsel

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
IMO, most of us are conditioned to always disagree with HSUS and PETA and those other anti organizations. Usually what they want to do is contrary to hunters' interests.

But that's kind of a blind, knee jerk reaction, isn't it? Just because people from HSUS breathe, doesn't mean we should stop breathing, does it? If UKC tells us we should breath air, does that mean they sold out to HSUS?? No way. That's ridiculous but that's exactly the logic of a lot of posters on this subject.

As far as whether this law has any new effect on coonhunting, an actual lawyer posted this:


Sorry, but I will trust the word of UKC's lawyer before most people. It will be the lawyers and judges who will decide what this law, or any law, really mean and how it will be used.

Also, to those who think UKC is so wrong and PKC is so right, this is PKC's response:


PKC apparently doesn't have a lawyer working this but they did send a letter which contains a couple minor wording changes. Otherwise it appears they support this.

I'm against restrictions on our hunting rights as much as anyone. I see it getting worse in spite of our best efforts. But for God's sake as a group we need to be a little smarter, stick together, empower the lawyers and organizations that work for us and support them. We should also lose the mob, vigilante, slobber-at-the-mouth mentality. The anti's must read these posts and are probably high-fiving each other. They got us right where they want us, fighting and arguing amongst ourselves.

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When all the smoke clears the term that will come back to bite the houndsman is "4 legged", If the intent of the bill is truly to broaden the ability to prosecute people involved in dog on dog fighting what could possibly be the reason for this terminology?

Anyone bright enough to pass a bar exam knows full well what the agenda is here.
If passed the antis. will in short order move to have the exclusion for hunting ammended out of the bill on the basis that cruelty is cruelty regardless of the circumstance.
At some level someones feet were held to the fire to garner UKCs. support on a bill that is so obviously not in the interest of a large portion of their customer base.
Under the surface here is the theory that anything fighting anything is a cruel act when condoned by anyone, and HSUS. and PETA. will only need to find a liberal judge to establish precedent.

I can understand UKCs. predicament, they didnt want to be seen as opposing a bill which on its surface is designed to get the lowlifes that fight dogs, but to offer support without reguesting some changes in terminology was foolhearty.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
what more do you want them to say ??? I Googled this law and saw nothing where UKC was backing it other then there symbol on a face book post, BUT WHO PUT THAT ON THERE???? OOOOOOOOOO that right you can not put anything on the internet.

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Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

I will say four legged and 2 legged is not what should be the concern in this Bill.
I don't even like the proposal PKC has put out there, though it does give the farmers and houndsman a little more protection even though not the protection they need.

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Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

quote:

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Originally posted by berger
Skip there support for this bill is on UKC Home page.

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Skip Hartline
219-325-0914- H
CELL 219-898-5725


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D NtCH PR Alford's Alibi h
NTCH PR Alford's Hatchet h
NT CH PR Mill's Dotty h