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I have a all grand female here out Dan and she has everything I won't in a young dog fast spilt treeing type dog that can trees coon but miss more than what I like and for years I have heard old timers talking about dogs treeing squirrels other day my brother came home from work she was treed with a squirrel is hard too break one from treeing them I have never had a dog doing this

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Elvis wishing you a Merry Christmas.

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Mr. Fryer that is how it works. What the breed thinks they need gets bred into the hounds. Problem is, with what is being bred in there also comes many other things that you may not want.
What has it been over the years has been defined by the hunts. What it takes to win is bred in.
1. Track Power
2. Tree Power
3. Deep Hunting Hound
3. Independence
4. Mouth

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__________________
Shane

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
That's the problem! The most important trait in a COONDOG? ACCURACY!!! List the rest by personal preference, but everyones #1 most desired trait should be ACCURACY.

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I had a conversation with Mr. Wimp Aron a while back and he told me what I thought was profound. He says if he is ever elected president that he will enact a new law. The law is that if you raise one litter of pups per year then you must hunt what you raise. Therefore I think everyone should be a breeder and have to hunt what they raise. Within 2 years there would be a lot less pups raised.

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Originally posted by David Morgan
I had a conversation with Mr. Wimp Aron a while back and he told me what I thought was profound. He says if he is ever elected president that he will enact a new law. The law is that if you raise one litter of pups per year then you must hunt what you raise. Therefore I think everyone should be a breeder and have to hunt what they raise. Within 2 years there would be a lot less pups raised.

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Here is something about breeding I find very true. When you breed your dog you do so to get a litter of pups for a reason.
The reason could be to get yourself a replacement pup, it could be to sell the pups.
With that said all dogs have faults or things we wish they were better at. You are not going to water down the faults and get rid of them in one generation. Those faults will be there in some of the pups to come back and haunt you.
They say breeding for color is the easiest thing to do and you should be able to establish a color pattern in three generations of breeding. The color you don't like will still come back to haunt you occasionally but if you make the right choices (which you can see and that makes it easy) in the three generations of breeding, you can for the most part establish a color pattern.
Now because the genetic makeup of ability can't been seen or people see it differently it takes several generations of trial and error to produce the offspring you want. Problem is what happens to those that don't fit the mold. They should be removed for the breeding pool but they ain't. They are sold for someone else to worry about.

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
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Very true, my own experiences are the same, it's the
" intangibles" that make the difference, that's why it is so hard. Most who don't raise allot of pups and spend allot of time with them will never notice. Out of the best bred litter of 8 there will be levels you can see, 2 very smart, 2 more close to the first 2, then you see the rest as let's say normal. They will all tree coon!
It's not always the biggest, the prettiest etc....
The bad thing about it is it takes time and money to keep a litter long enough to see the intangibles.
People years ago could let the litter run loose and watch them mature a little, I am fortunate enough to live off a good ways from the road and able to let them run free for a while, it sure helps in my decisions.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

The more discipline you have to use on your dog the more weaknesses you have in your breeding program ( this was told to me by James gimp Lewis owner of Grntch Lewis blue river bill I have never forgot it!!!!)

It's pretty simple, buy your hounds and pups from SUCCESSFUL hunters, NOT "breeders"

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Originally posted by msinc
Maybe I am reading into it wrong {usually do} but...I think what Mr. Conkey has been saying all along is that track power cannot take them to the wrong tree. I believe that track power or the lack of it is a direct cause of the accuracy thing. Accuracy, that is treeing on the tree that has the coon, is secondary.
I guess another way of saying it is how can a dog with a bad enough lack of tracking ability {power} ever get to the right tree consistently???

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

How many of you have read John Wicks book??? I think he does the best job of explaining breeding hounds and i belive it to be true and it shows in the stock he had/has. Balanced coondog to balanced coondog with proven reproducers on both sides, and not just reproducers. BALANCED COONDOGS. He talks about how this misconception of breeding a hard tree dog to a hard track dog dosent get you a balanced out coondog and i totally agree. I think there would be a whole lot less culls and we would be a lot further along if everybody read his wisdom on this and put it into practice.

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Originally posted by Fisher13


Out of all the traits, the intangibles are tough to spot in a few nights of hunting with a dog. There even harder to market or promote. What most guys see and breed for is chrome imo. Thats what I see in most walker lines a whole lot of chrome, but thats about it. I have a feeling if we start breeding for accuracy, you will see start seeing a lot of these intangibles start showing back up. [/B]

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Yeah all that chrome is nice to until winter sets in.Then the dumb coons are dead and that quick striking fast treeing dogs don't shine like new chrome.They start looking like a rust bucket that needs took to the used car lot. You follow them around all night praying they would stop using there mouth and start using there brain.They would sure find more coons that way.Jmo

GET TREED

amen jackson real tree dogs only bark at tree

the coon seam not to run like they 30-50 years ago they would run -yes they were running a coon --there is a diff in hunting in diff parts of the country ----now day when U hit a track U have a 200--400 yard race and tree with coon or not --no tree checking just [[one bark]]] an treed ---

and if some one is with U ---he is up there some where ---

if no one is with U --U lead him off tree add a little leather send him on

happy holidays to everyone

__________________
ALLNITER DOUG CHEEK

ALWAYS GO BY THE RULES AND NEVER A PROBLEM

A fly through the country ambushing type dog doesn't have to do much tracking and has his coon almost every time...lol

__________________
JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

"Seen a lot dog that have lots of track power, that will switch tracks or tree for a little and take off another track nearby, or that will run track or boohoo around the woods for an hour or 2."

You have seen a lot of dogs that have "lots of track power" and this is what you are calling track power???? O.K.

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Originally posted by jay brademeyer
A fly through the country ambushing type dog doesn't have to do much tracking and has his coon almost every time...lol

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"quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
A fly through the country ambushing type dog doesn't have to do much tracking and has his coon almost every time...lol

Exactly. I don't want to know where a coon was 2 hours ago. I want to know where he is RIGHT NOW."

Then why not just set a box trap and check it in the morning????

mhardy you said it best ! its a crap shoot. you breed the best to the best and hope for the rest...




too many people breeding culls to these so called big time studs thinking the stud will change the world. you will get some good ones but those undesirable traits will came back thru future generations. there is no perfect cross and there never will be. you just have to decide what faults you can deal with

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Originally posted by msinc
"Seen a lot dog that have lots of track power, that will switch tracks or tree for a little and take off another track nearby, or that will run track or boohoo around the woods for an hour or 2."

You have seen a lot of dogs that have "lots of track power" and this is what you are calling track power???? O.K.

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

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Originally posted by DOUG CHEEK
the coon seam not to run like they 30-50 years ago they would run -yes they were running a coon --there is a diff in hunting in diff parts of the country ----now day when U hit a track U have a 200--400 yard race and tree with coon or not --no tree checking just [[one bark]]] an treed ---

and if some one is with U ---he is up there some where ---

if no one is with U --U lead him off tree add a little leather send him on

happy holidays to everyone

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

If everyone wanted the same style dog things would be alot simpler, and the part of the country we live in also plays a large role in what type hound is the most productive.
I live in pretty thick coon and hunt mostly patch woods (corn country). The last thing i need is a track dog, or one that checks himself before he settles. I want one to leave fast with nothing on his mind but gettin parked under a coon.
If i had to climb a mountain or wade a swamp to look at a tree i would probably look at things a little different. Accuracy isnt free, its a trade off, when a guy says he has one thats 90% accurate I can almost guarantee that my 60% plugs will get parked under more sets of eyes by the end of the night.
I guess it boils down to why your out there, if ya enjoy sittin on a log listenin to old accurate spend a half hour sortin out that feeder track like grandpa used to do more power to ya, id rather be out there with a dog that is rockin and rollin. The last issue of prohound i opened was still plumb full of walker dogs in the winners circle, now wheather they tracked down those coon or just blast through the timber lookin for a popup, they still got the job done. And thats why most of the crossbred litters will be half walker dog, and its also why the big winning crossbreds to date were half walker.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

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Originally posted by Fisher13
I'm not

I just don't think track power = lots of treed coon. To me, like others have posted a balance of traits = lots of treed coon. Most of the guys I know that are hung up on track power or breeding track power, have dogs that appear to really drive a track, but at the end of the day, there dogs don't tree as many coon as those hunting a balanced dog. Since our goal is to breed a coon dog, to me how many coon a dog can tree regardless of the chrome, should be the ultimate deciding factor.

These are just my opinions not trying to stir up any hard feelings

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