UKC Forums - Another Classification (SuperGrand)

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-- Another Classification (SuperGrand) (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928364433)

Posted by shane_atchison on 03-08-2014 05:18 PM:

Titles

Just FIX the current system. 5 hunt wins makes a Nite ch. 10 makes a Grand. I think I've been to 6 hunts so far this year and only 1 had more than 3 casts. The current titles don't mean as much because of lack of competition, no need to add more.

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Posted by chuck west on 03-08-2014 05:47 PM:

Re: Titles

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Just FIX the current system. 5 hunt wins makes a Nite ch. 10 makes a Grand. I think I've been to 6 hunts so far this year and only 1 had more than 3 casts. The current titles don't mean as much because of lack of competition, no need to add more.

Yes sir ,get the hunt numbers up and you will gain alot more respect in my honest opinion . I know there is alot more involved to it ,than adding another ho hum title , This is just not me babbleing ,open up the Bloodlines and read it yourself .

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Posted by ericevans on 03-08-2014 05:56 PM:

Re: Re: Titles

quote:
Originally posted by chuck west
Yes sir ,get the hunt numbers up and you will gain alot more respect in my honest opinion . I know there is alot more involved to it ,than adding another ho hum title , This is just not me babbleing ,open up the Bloodlines and read it yourself .

You guys we been thru that already,hunting against the same compition for another five,ten,twenty wins isn't going to get any more respect when your still hunting them against the same few nt.ch dogs at a small hunt.
Yes chuck that would will help ,getting numbers up but how can we go about doing it is the hard question!

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Posted by kenney Clark on 03-08-2014 06:02 PM:

Re: Titles

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Just FIX the current system. 5 hunt wins makes a Nite ch. 10 makes a Grand. I think I've been to 6 hunts so far this year and only 1 had more than 3 casts. The current titles don't mean as much because of lack of competition, no need to add more.

I say leave it all the same as it is now. A reg dog has to get that 1st place win to be nt. Ch. No matter how many cast wins it has. I seen and heard of several dogs that had 10-12 2nd place wins and not nt.ch. cause it has no 1st place win. As far as grand nt. In my opinion is not easy to make . 5 1st place nt.ch. wins takes some time and a lot of miles and money to make. Where I live there some good dogs here. The competition is good. We draw several casts. So you think the numbers at the hunts are down and this super grand stuff is gonna help.? I don't think so. Cost enough to make a grand nt . ch. Now you wanna say if its not this super grand title its no good? I'm would absolutely not participate in these hunts. I make a grand night champion I know what I got. And could care less what anyone else thinks. Even if I advertise a stud dog. If you don't breed to it cause it don't have this new title again could care less. A lot of people on here says they want this supergrand title don't even own a grand night dog. Can't even do that or can't afford to. To try for another title. I also enjoy finishing a dog to grand and then moving on to a new young dog to start in hunts. Do it again. And I stated in a earlier post on this that if you want another title go win autumn oaks. Its for grand night ch. Or the world hunt. The reply I got was that cost to much money. Ha ha. You don't think running all over the place trying to get some new make believe title won't cost more than a $30 entry to autumn oaks or entering the world hunt. ? I bet it cost much more. So if a new title is made up I say I'm out.just to impress someone other than myself. That I don't care what u think of. Most that draw me know I bring a dog I can win with.. I hunt for me . my dogs . my dogs earn there titles. And I know how they did and that's all I really care about. So this new title would come out which I'm sure ukc may consider. Look at the money that would generate. Why not? Than people say I won't breed to that dog if its not supergrand. There cheating thereselves. That's fine but I bet I won't participate. I just start a young dog back in registered casts.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 03-08-2014 06:47 PM:

Classification

It may be different everywhere, but the attendance is way down here. The current system would be fine,(with the exception of Nt.Ch) if anyone would show up. Change Nite Ch. to 5 wins and leave grand at 5, or fix the performance program to where its worth the effort to take a Grand to the hunts.

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-08-2014 07:30 PM:

Leave everything the way it is then. How do we get attendance up? What about the 6-8 guys in our area that aren't hunting anything because their granded out? That's fine. I understand what y'all are saying. There's some great ideas on here how to better our competition hunts. A supergrand title is just a thought? Whether it would work or not? I think it would help, but some don't think so. And that's okay too! I believe we all want to see our sport grow, and our night hunt attendance increase with more competition. And that's a good thing!

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Posted by shane_atchison on 03-08-2014 10:03 PM:

Attendence

If they would double the fees for sires, registration, etc. they could double the payout and make the program worth wild again. UKC could also make Performance mandatory for hunt or show entry. I cant imagine buying a pup from a sire or dam that wasn't DNA certified anyway, and as little as the point value is I still want my pups to be able to earn them.

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-09-2014 03:21 AM:

Shane, do you not think if you go doubling the fees that it would push more folks to the other Kennel clubs? I mean, you go raising the entry fees for a sectional from $15 to $20 we hear about it. Just wondering...

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Posted by shane_atchison on 03-09-2014 06:55 AM:

fees

Im talking about the performance program fees for sires, litters, paying up pups etc. $200 to nominate a sire, $ 50 for pups up to 6mo.old, $100 up to 12mo.old to nominate a litter and $50 up to 6mo. and $150 after for permanent. This will double the point value and should make men want to hit the hunts a lil more. I don't know what to say about the $20 hunt fee.? If your treasury is low go for it. I went to my 1st UKC hunt almost 20yrs ago with an $89 Nitelite, $40 hip boots, $3 can of skoal, on $.97 cent gas and paid $15 to hunt. I don't get guys complaining about $20 hunts.

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Posted by scoham on 03-09-2014 08:03 AM:

Good ideas being brought up.

After writing my original post on this thread I immediately came to the same conclusion as the following statement and regretted my post; You will be hunting with the same dog no matter how many titles you create and not change anything. It's a fact; that finishing a good dog out of Reg. or Ntch. titles, in local clubs, makes it easier for the lesser coonhound to obtain that same title. And the number of dogs hunting local is not there and has not been there in along time. This is what, I feel, has caused the degraded respect in the Grand Night title over the years. What I feel are the best ideas I've read on here so far are; 1. Require dogs to HTX a couple times prior to moving up to next title. 2. Change the requirements to more 1st place wins in both Night Champion and Grand Night titles. 3. Leave the cost alone.

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Posted by zshepherd on 03-10-2014 02:28 AM:

Why not make the night hunts elimination style like most ukc rabbit hunts, hunt 60 min rounds and come back to the clubhouse and draw cast winners back out, most of the time in these the best dog will win because the dog that gets lucky don't generally get lucky twice in one night, I think this would be great in ntch so you don't drive 2 hours every weekend and get with a bad guide and win your cast and get score carded out at the club, I think this would make a grnt more reputable because most generally the meto dog ain't gonna win two cast, at least if you have plus points you have a chance of wining

Posted by kenney Clark on 03-10-2014 02:36 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zshepherd
Why not make the night hunts elimination style like most ukc rabbit hunts, hunt 60 min rounds and come back to the clubhouse and draw cast winners back out, most of the time in these the best dog will win because the dog that gets lucky don't generally get lucky twice in one night, I think this would be great in ntch so you don't drive 2 hours every weekend and get with a bad guide and win your cast and get score carded out at the club, I think this would make a grnt more reputable because most generally the meto dog ain't gonna win two cast, at least if you have plus points you have a chance of wining [/QUOTE

Now that's more like it. I like this ideal better.

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-10-2014 04:35 AM:

I like it too, but 1 HR hunts ain't long enough. 2 HR hunt and then a 1 HR. Calls for some really late nights! Really late!

I still don't see why some don't like the supergrand idea. It would really be good for our sport I think. Make it so tough that if you make supergrand, you automatically qualify for the world hunt! 5 wins from different clubs. You'd just be hunting with grand dogs. Same rules as nitech cast. Better competition for our grand dogs. Keep em competing!

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Posted by Jgarrett on 03-10-2014 05:38 AM:

Boosting attendance

[img][img]

The only way we are going to boost attendance is by creating new hunters. I tend to mind my own business and don't meet a lot of young folks to introduce to the sport but we all should take advantage of every opportunity to introduce someone new to the sport. I have a couple of boys that will be ready for the hunts in a few years.

Posted by kenney Clark on 03-10-2014 10:02 AM:

Re: Boosting attendance

quote:
Originally posted by Jgarrett
[img][img]

The only way we are going to boost attendance is by creating new hunters. I tend to mind my own business and don't meet a lot of young folks to introduce to the sport but we all should take advantage of every opportunity to introduce someone new to the sport. I have a couple of boys that will be ready for the hunts in a few years.

And that's truly what it's about. The younth . the better influence they have the better the future looks.

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-10-2014 02:11 PM:

Good post Jason!

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Posted by novicane65 on 03-10-2014 07:51 PM:

1 I'm not a comp hunter
2 I'd be more interested in the hunts if it were really gauged off the dogs ability not the handlers. Yes I had a bad deal on that.

Food for thought though
make it a requirement that you have to get your wins in two states and or 5 different club houses so many miles apart. Or something like the judge calls your dog not the owner or handler. So its a mix of the HTX and hunts.

It makes a difference in attendance if the new guys have a good time. JMO

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-11-2014 06:13 AM:

Supergrand qualifications:
1. Must have 5 wins
2. Must be at least 225+
3. No off game (scratched)
4. 5 wins from 5 different clubs
5. Supergrand cast must have non hunting judges
6. Scratched with 225- or more.
*after supergranded your automatically qualified for the world hunt

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Posted by novicane65 on 03-11-2014 01:27 PM:

I think that would work Bobby. I'd like to try some hunts this year if work will allow.

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-11-2014 02:58 PM:

Find you local club and go! They need you! And go just to have a good time. It works for me.

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Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-17-2014 10:46 PM:

Re: definatly

quote:
Originally posted by stevenbry86
i agree bobby there needs to be somthing i know several guys that have 3yr old grnites that just sit out back i would like to see em break em back out

Talked to several more about this and the loved the idea of hunting for another title. It could work!

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Posted by bludog29 on 03-18-2014 06:24 AM:

attendence

IMO a new title isn't going to save the nite hunts. We need a way to bring honor back to the honor rules. Best thing I've heard so far is make a dog get a HTX title every time they advance in degree with one HTX pass having to be at a non local club.

I hear and read so much about "oh that title doesn't mean this and this title doesn't mean that."

We need a title to mean something to everyone not just the comp guys so everyone involved in this sport would like to try for one or at least look at a pedigree and not totally question how a dog got it. Nothing good is going to come over night we need a new structure not just another title.

Again this is JMO and my two cents, which some will say is worth less than that.

Posted by bludog29 on 03-18-2014 06:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65

It makes a difference in attendance if the new guys have a good time. JMO

I agree if someone new shows up and they feel like an outsider for one reason or another why would they want to come back. It's more than just saying "hi" to someone, its the overall experience.

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 03-18-2014 06:52 AM:

im beginning to agree

quote:
Originally posted by bludog29
I agree if someone new shows up and they feel like an outsider for one reason or another why would they want to come back. It's more than just saying "hi" to someone, its the overall experience.

I agree with the htx qualifications before a title, but there are a lot of quality 3&4 yr old grand dogs sitting at home Friday and Saturday nights. And you are right on outsiders not feeling welcomed. But I will say this, our local clubs around here are very hospitable toward newcomers. But, we sure need to do more than that. We need to make sure we try to put them in the coon! And give them a really good overall hunting experience too. But a supergrand title ain't going to hurt anything either.

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Posted by everett on 03-18-2014 02:50 PM:

Bobby

I think it's a great Idea, In fact I have three grndnites in my pen right now and several young hounds which are not ready for a hunt yet, so for the time being I am sidelined , with that said you can hunt a grndnites in any Ukc hunt, you just don't earn ch, points, of coarse Ukc still wants their fee per dog even if their not going to award points....Gerald

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