UKC Forums - Coonhound Rules Proposals

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-- Coonhound Rules Proposals (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928331683)

Posted by JiM on 08-08-2013 03:37 AM:

I'm not sure what he was talking about but I don't think it was any kind of dog.

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Posted by groworg1 on 08-08-2013 01:33 PM:

proposal change to 6i has nothing to do with a tight mouth dog it gets rid of the dogs being struck on there locate and treed in one breath every time dog and there are plenty of these silent dogs out there ! and a count down rule only makes the problem worse not better if 4 dogs go in 4 different directions there may only be 1 set of open strike points making all take 25 for strike giving the silent dog a bigger advantage and since 6i as it is is never enforced (when was the last time a dog was scratched for being silent) you guy's always say rules are rules and this clearly takes the grey area out of 6i

Posted by K. Singletary on 08-08-2013 01:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I guess i would disagree, the countdown only rewards the first dog thats under the coon, that should be the best track dog right?
As far as breeding for a strike dog, im afraid that ship has sailed.... An honest strike dog will never outstrike a babbler but punishing the babbler for covering will help.

So how exactly has a dog that goes left and gets treed before a dog that goes right proven that he is the better track dog. These things are not related, these dogs aren't even competing against each other, there is no way to know which is the better track dog. Many, many sorry track dogs get 1st trees because they refuse to hunt and compete with other dogs.

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Posted by pigsit on 08-08-2013 04:37 PM:

Leave the silent dog rule as it is, in this part of the country, most hunts you won't make three trees. Tom

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Posted by Mark K.D.Savage on 08-08-2013 06:22 PM:

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-08-2013 06:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
So how exactly has a dog that goes left and gets treed before a dog that goes right proven that he is the better track dog. These things are not related, these dogs aren't even competing against each other, there is no way to know which is the better track dog. Many, many sorry track dogs get 1st trees because they refuse to hunt and compete with other dogs.

It doesnt matter a lick how they do it, you may not like a tight mouth dog, and i may not like a packin trail dog, at the end of the night the dog that locates and gets treed under the most coon in the least amount of time should win the cast. Last i looked theres no place on a scorecard for style points. The only thing i want mine competing against out there is the coon, and a tree countdown helps keep the coontreer in the cast on top.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 08-08-2013 07:05 PM:

So 125 vs 75 doesn't help the coon treer enough. I'd rather see 1st tree moved to 150 and not have a count down. The other 3 dogs are also competing against each other and the one that does something 2nd vs 4th deserves whatever they have coming to them just as much as the dog that does something 1st. Many, many times I wished I could take 25 on a tree instead 125, 75, or even 50.

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Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 08-08-2013 09:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
It doesnt matter a lick how they do it, you may not like a tight mouth dog, and i may not like a packin trail dog, at the end of the night the dog that locates and gets treed under the most coon in the least amount of time should win the cast. Last i looked theres no place on a scorecard for style points. The only thing i want mine competing against out there is the coon, and a tree countdown helps keep the coontreer in the cast on top.

If you want to compete against just a coon hunt htx, comp nite is just that a competition between dogs on their casts. Tree count down just allows points not to given if a dog doesn't cover quick enough to secure the next position
So if you are trying to eliminate comp from other dogs maybe you should look at htx

Posted by john Duemmer on 08-08-2013 09:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cry Tough Blues
If you want to compete against just a coon hunt htx, comp nite is just that a competition between dogs on their casts. Tree count down just allows points not to given if a dog doesn't cover quick enough to secure the next position
So if you are trying to eliminate comp from other dogs maybe you should look at htx

Sorry but in UKC. you are not competing against the dogs in your cast, you are competing against every dog in the hunt, and in a larger hunt it is quite possible to win your cast and not even place in the hunt. In UKC. scoreing the most coon is all that counts. If you only want to compete against the dogs in your cast Pkc. is the place to be.
I like em both but they require a totally different strategy for a handler.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-08-2013 10:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Sorry but in UKC. you are not competing against the dogs in your cast, you are competing against every dog in the hunt, and in a larger hunt it is quite possible to win your cast and not even place in the hunt. In UKC. scoreing the most coon is all that counts. If you only want to compete against the dogs in your cast Pkc. is the place to be.
I like em both but they require a totally different strategy for a handler.

LOL. That's a good one. Kinda backfired on cry tough blues.

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 08-08-2013 10:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Sorry but in UKC. you are not competing against the dogs in your cast, you are competing against every dog in the hunt, and in a larger hunt it is quite possible to win your cast and not even place in the hunt. In UKC. scoreing the most coon is all that counts. If you only want to compete against the dogs in your cast Pkc. is the place to be.
I like em both but they require a totally different strategy for a handler.

With single digit entries you are talking about 1 or 2 cast in registered, maybe 3 cast and you are worried about a me too dog, LOL
I have seen way more dogs open on trash and seen some good dogs refuse to go , dog gets across the field to another woods and finds a coon and switches, how is the better -straighter dog gonna win or even get to the tree in 2 minutes?? let alone 5

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Posted by john Duemmer on 08-08-2013 10:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
With single digit entries you are talking about 1 or 2 cast in registered, maybe 3 cast and you are worried about a me too dog, LOL
I have seen way more dogs open on trash and seen some good dogs refuse to go , dog gets across the field to another woods and finds a coon and switches, how is the better -straighter dog gonna win or even get to the tree in 2 minutes?? let alone 5

All that better/straighter dog has to do is mind his own business and tree his own coon for 125....

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 08-08-2013 10:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
All that better/straighter dog has to do is mind his own business and tree his own coon for 125....

sounds good if you have lots of coon , but from my area normally one coons score wins

Posted by john Duemmer on 08-08-2013 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
sounds good if you have lots of coon , but from my area normally one coons score wins

I dont know where Gillett is but i went to a hunt in Pa. last winter, think it was called the snowball classic or something like that and we scored on 5 coon.

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 08-08-2013 11:02 PM:

This is what we have to remember, not all clubs have abundant coon populations, and we are all going to go by the same set of rules, so lets think things thru and get it best for all areas

Posted by pamjohnson on 08-08-2013 11:49 PM:

I don't like change much.

I carry my gps and shocker every nite pleasure hunts so why not in the hunts?

Posted by tim griffin on 08-09-2013 12:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
This is what we have to remember, not all clubs have abundant coon populations, and we are all going to go by the same set of rules, so lets think things thru and get it best for all areas

sounds to me like you need different guides i go to these clubs with low coon population. it isn't low coon population where you can't tree 2 or 3 coons a night its these people that guide the cast don't know how to hunt for coons to see numbers of coons

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 08-09-2013 12:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
sounds to me like you need different guides i go to these clubs with low coon population. it isn't low coon population where you can't tree 2 or 3 coons a night its these people that guide the cast don't know how to hunt for coons to see numbers of coons

I don't believe it's the guides, just look in the back of Bloodlines in the hunt results, you will see that there are a lot of low scores and low entries in my area- north east Pa. and south eastern NY state and while you are looking just check some of the other States, just for fun.

Posted by glynnsdawgs63 on 08-09-2013 01:51 AM:

Get rid of 2 hour hunts make them all 3 hour hunts
Get rid of circle points,you either see the coon or you don't.
Break a tie cast with 1 hour hunt off or coin toss.
Scratch dogs not working with the pack.I like an independent dog but some of these dogs are stupid independent

Glynn

Posted by dperry on 08-09-2013 01:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
Get rid of 2 hour hunts make them all 3 hour hunts
Get rid of circle points,you either see the coon or you don't.
Break a tie cast with 1 hour hunt off or coin toss.
Scratch dogs not working with the pack.I like an independent dog but some of these dogs are stupid independent

Glynn

JiM, this one might have moved into the fore front.

Glynn, you have single handedly destroyed competition coon hunts with these ideas.

Posted by pamjohnson on 08-10-2013 12:15 AM:

these new rule perposales I wounder what benefit they r to ukc? or who will benefit?

none of these new rules will help entries (may hurt entries)

instead maybe. have gr nt hunt 4 half the entry,etc

Posted by bluedawg1963 on 08-11-2013 12:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
Get rid of 2 hour hunts make them all 3 hour hunts
Get rid of circle points,you either see the coon or you don't.
Break a tie cast with 1 hour hunt off or coin toss.
Scratch dogs not working with the pack.I like an independent dog but some of these dogs are stupid independent

Glynn

I think these rules would be great.It would get rid of the 1 hour wonders,
It would get rid of slick treeing fools and handlers that call every empty tree a circle tree.
It would get rid of these dogs that got to leave in a dead run to cover 2 miles of ground to be by himself.
We'd be hunting coon dogs instead of tree dogs.

Big John Whigham

Posted by buzzardcreek on 08-11-2013 02:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
Get rid of 2 hour hunts make them all 3 hour hunts
Get rid of circle points,you either see the coon or you don't.
Break a tie cast with 1 hour hunt off or coin toss.
Scratch dogs not working with the pack.I like an independent dog but some of these dogs are stupid independent

Glynn

your talking about a different game now

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Posted by buzzardcreek on 08-11-2013 02:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
Get rid of 2 hour hunts make them all 3 hour hunts
Get rid of circle points,you either see the coon or you don't.
Break a tie cast with 1 hour hunt off or coin toss.
Scratch dogs not working with the pack.I like an independent dog but some of these dogs are stupid independent

Glynn

your talking about a different game now

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Posted by Dirtdevil on 08-11-2013 01:44 PM:

The rules should be fair enough so that any style of dog that is consistant and competive can win on a good night ... it doesn't matter what style .. me-too , loaner , in-between , tree grabber .... they all exist because enough folks like them so they should all have a chance.

Trying to manipulate the rules so that the same action gets different points depending on the style of dog ... doesn't help the sport or make judging casts and getting alone better.

There need not be such a huge gap in points .. being consistant on several drops will win .. if it's just by a little , then it was a good cast .. it doesn't need to be a blowout and have guys upset with the system .... a cast win by blowout doesn't get an asterick by it .. barely winning is still winning , so again .. why the need to gap any scoring or cut out a certain style of dog.

If the rules are fair to all , and enforced ... you need fewer of them and they won't change so much ... and folks can have less friction .

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