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-- C.O.O.N. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928301359)

VaBirdDog - let me answer it by analogy... I live in Wisconsin where there are literally lakes around every corner. So let's say I was the founder of B.A.S.S. and I got on a forum to promote this new fishing concept. If someone from Arizona got on there same forum and complained about the lack of lakes in their area, are you suggesting that I should abandon the idea of a fishing organization???

I'll admit that I know very little about available hunting area, surrounding those folks that were complaining, but based on what I know about many other parts of the country, I beleive the concerns expressed are of the minority.

I would argue that the "general public" or the average person knows very little about either sport, but I wouldn't market to them, I would market to sportsmen and women. And by the way, I seriously doubt any of their current viewers knew anything about gator hunting, prior to Swamp People coming on the air, and look at the following they have! And I don't have to market this to a network, as I was approached by a network.

I also think you guys underestimate the demographic, the hound and tree dog industry offers to advertisers. Once you consider the coon hound owners, the big game hunters, beagle owners, and cur dog owners, you're covering millions of enthusiasts before you even add the average viewer that will tune in simply because, like Swamp People, it's different than the average show on TV. I don't care to particpate in gator hunting, moonshining, or digging for gold, but I watch all of those types of shows, simply because they're different.

And no, I don't want to produce a show that simply hits an event here and there... we already did that. I want to develop a hound and tree dog centric, sporting event program. I don't understand why so many of you keep trying to redirect this thread?!? A B.A.S.S. type production is still exactly what I have in mind, and I still haven't heard a reason why hound and tree dog events couldn't be covered in the same way.

micooner - I asked a question that I was interested in learning more about. Why does it matter why I was interested in knowing? Does that change people's answers?

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

I actually had swamp people pop into my head as well thinking about this thread.... before that show I would imagine most people would say, " who in the world would be interested in watching some of Louisiana' s good ol boys kick around the swamps?" But it did take off! And I do like it..... but I would consider that more of a reality type show and kind of why I had asked how you proposed to film. Was it going to be following a set group of guys and their hounds around to the night hunts -more like a reality series or was it going to be more like a BASS tournament where the show cuts from one boat (in our case Cast) to another as the tournament or night hunt progresses and then show the winner at the end of the hunt. Which I think would be next to impossible because anybody can show up and throw a dog in a hunt and the other has their cast of "pros"

You may have been approached but you will still have to make a "sale" before you are aired. To sponsers and the network. They aren't going to just put any ol footage you show up with on national television...


"And to keep it interesting, it would have to be a mix of different types of event, not just competition coon hunts."

The above statement is what made me think you were going to just hit on a night hunt here and there.....

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
...... And I don't have to market this to a network, as I was approached by a network.

.... A B.A.S.S. type production is still exactly what I have in mind, and I still haven't heard a reason why hound and tree dog events couldn't be covered in the same way.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

I think some answers would have been different and it wouldn't have been sidetracked with the deer and land leases thats all. I do have one question for you though. Where do you find the stats that millions are interested in our sport? I also wonder about the statement that there are more hound, beagles, and curs than birdogs....just wondering, with all the goldens, labs, and pointers around. I just don't see the audience for a tree dog show. I have watched swamp people, gold rush, BASS and your old show, I never went back more than twice to any of these shows.

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
VaBirdDog - let me answer it by analogy... I live in Wisconsin where there are literally lakes around every corner. So let's say I was the founder of B.A.S.S. and I got on a forum to promote this new fishing concept. If someone from Arizona got on there same forum and complained about the lack of lakes in their area, are you suggesting that I should abandon the idea of a fishing organization???

I'll admit that I know very little about available hunting area, surrounding those folks that were complaining, but based on what I know about many other parts of the country, I beleive the concerns expressed are of the minority.

I would argue that the "general public" or the average person knows very little about either sport, but I wouldn't market to them, I would market to sportsmen and women. And by the way, I seriously doubt any of their current viewers knew anything about gator hunting, prior to Swamp People coming on the air, and look at the following they have! And I don't have to market this to a network, as I was approached by a network.


I also think you guys underestimate the demographic, the hound and tree dog industry offers to advertisers. Once you consider the coon hound owners, the big game hunters, beagle owners, and cur dog owners, you're covering millions of enthusiasts before you even add the average viewer that will tune in simply because, like Swamp People, it's different than the average show on TV. I don't care to particpate in gator hunting, moonshining, or digging for gold, but I watch all of those types of shows, simply because they're different.

And no, I don't want to produce a show that simply hits an event here and there... we already did that. I want to develop a hound and tree dog centric, sporting event program. I don't understand why so many of you keep trying to redirect this thread?!? A B.A.S.S. type production is still exactly what I have in mind, and I still haven't heard a reason why hound and tree dog events couldn't be covered in the same way.

micooner - I asked a question that I was interested in learning more about. Why does it matter why I was interested in knowing? Does that change people's answers?

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__________________
Robert G.Jones

quote:

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Originally posted by Plott55
David, you asked a question, and this is the 4th page with nothing gained.

Why don't you just delete the entire thread an start over with a different approach to the subject.

I served as president of the Okefenokee Wildlife League (OWL) for quite a few years and found,there are many different ways to sell an idea.

It seems that maybe It's time for another way to sell yours.

The Okefenokee Promoter

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__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Dave , I don't know about the first B.A.S.S. tournament , but I doubt the first one was televised. And I doubt it started as a nationwide organization.
Same as NASCAR , or most any national organization for that matter.
I do remember NASCAR starting out on TV. They started out on ABC's Wide World of Sports. They started by televising the opening laps and then the closing laps of the Dautona 500.
The more popular it got , the more they covered it , and the more sponsors they got.
You can't say "Give me your money and my idea will get you a return on your investment."
You have to show them that you have something worth investing in besides just an idea.

A for instance.....
I held a hunt for a charity here in my garage. The only thing I asked of UKC were some scorecards as I wanted to use their rules.
We hunted around a dozen or so dogs and donated around $400 I think.
If we hadn't have run into a few things that I didn't want to deal with , my next step would have been to get some local news coverage. And there is no doubt in my mind that it would have grown. And as it grew , sponsors would have came along.
The only thing that stopped it was me. The blame is all mine.


You can get there , but you have to realize that you can't count on nobody but yourself. And realize that if what you're doing ain't getting you there , you have to do something different.
Like I told you before about your show , sometimes you have to quit thinking like a coonhunter and think like a non-coonhunter.
If you do things right , you will grow. And as you grow , sponsors will come.
Just remember , If you're not growing , you're dieing.

Another " For instance "....
Look at how many people want a club address to punch into their GPS to find a club? I see quite a few.
Why? Because most clubs have signs so small they're hard to see while driving.
Thinking , as a non-coonhunter , looking at the small , hand painted signs that I see , they just wouldn't make me feel very welcomed. Wheras , if I was a non-coonhunter , and I was out for a drive and seen a decent sized , neatly painted , easy to read/see sign , I'd be more likely to get curious and feel more comforable about stopping in to see what was going on.
I'v never seen or heard of any kind of advertisement in the local papers inviting folks to come out and see what we are all about.

This is long enough , I think you get my meaning.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Is there some place that I can go to see one of the previous episodes? Utube or something like that?

quote:

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Originally posted by VaBirdDog
Is there some place that I can go to see one of the previous episodes? Utube or something like that?

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Thanks!

Honestly the clips from the show were more professional and much better than I expected. There really were no lighting issues at night and the audio covering the hounds trailing in the distance was better than I would have imagined too so it wasn't just hearing them only at the tree.

Ukc was listed as a sponser of the previous seasons on the website?

If they have already been on board at one point I don't understand why they wouldn't have another go at it unless they just felt that they didn't benefit.

If there were no issues with lack of viewers and data to support that I don't understand why more sponsers wouldn't come on board?

The only downside to sponsership I see in this sport is the fact that most of of the larger compaies involved have somewhat of a "monopoly" in their catagory... If you have a coonhound and want to hunt competively it basically has to be registered in either PKC or UKC. What is there for them to advertise for the most part? There isn't much choice, unless what they're investing in can bring in newcomers currently unaware of the sport. The same goes for Garmin. Not saying they won't or don't invest in advertising but I just don't see how they would spend the kind of money that other companies would in other sports that have more participants and are geared more toward the general public and not such a small group.

I would like to see some of the major hunts filmed and I honestly don't understand why a registery would't want that kind of exposure if nothing more than to encourage more participation from current members. Just filming pleasure hunts would probably wear the audience out. I think more viewers could be drawn in if some of the other slots could be filled with hunts that not everyone gets to experience. I for one would love to see a real good lion hunt. Hog hunting when it gets into the gritty action is entertaining. How about a lepard hunt with hounds and bring the outfitter on for advertising - that one should get your blood pumping! Have one of the benefit hunts featured to show the giving/community side of the coonhunting world if you want to bring it into a more favorable view of the public. Because this kind of stuff happens all of the time but I bet you hardly anyone on the "outside" even has a clue. Carefull attention to who and how they are portrayed will be the difference in how the public precieves the sport. I think there is the opportunity for you'll to again produce a good show featuring hounds but I still have a hard time picturing the exact BASS format in the coon hound world and I don't think that it would really need to be to succede anyway.....

Im sure nothing I have typed is new to you since you have done it before. I really don't know what any of us can tell you anyway because it sounds like for any of this to happen again it is on the shoulders of one of the registeries to pick it up and run with it.

quote:

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Originally posted by VaBirdDog
Honestly the clips from the show were more professional and much better than I expected. There really were no lighting issues at night and the audio covering the hounds trailing in the distance was better than I would have imagined too so it wasn't just hearing them only at the tree.

Ukc was listed as a sponser of the previous seasons on the website?

If they have already been on board at one point I don't understand why they wouldn't have another go at it unless they just felt that they didn't benefit.

If there were no issues with lack of viewers and data to support that I don't understand why more sponsers wouldn't come on board?

The only downside to sponsership I see in this sport is the fact that most of of the larger compaies involved have somewhat of a "monopoly" in their catagory... If you have a coonhound and want to hunt competively it basically has to be registered in either PKC or UKC. What is there for them to advertise for the most part? There isn't much choice, unless what they're investing in can bring in newcomers currently unaware of the sport. The same goes for Garmin. Not saying they won't or don't invest in advertising but I just don't see how they would spend the kind of money that other companies would in other sports that have more participants and are geared more toward the general public and not such a small group.

I would like to see some of the major hunts filmed and I honestly don't understand why a registery would't want that kind of exposure if nothing more than to encourage more participation from current members. Just filming pleasure hunts would probably wear the audience out. I think more viewers could be drawn in if some of the other slots could be filled with hunts that not everyone gets to experience. I for one would love to see a real good lion hunt. Hog hunting when it gets into the gritty action is entertaining. How about a lepard hunt with hounds and bring the outfitter on for advertising - that one should get your blood pumping! Have one of the benefit hunts featured to show the giving/community side of the coonhunting world if you want to bring it into a more favorable view of the public. Because this kind of stuff happens all of the time but I bet you hardly anyone on the "outside" even has a clue. Carefull attention to who and how they are portrayed will be the difference in how the public precieves the sport. I think there is the opportunity for you'll to again produce a good show featuring hounds but I still have a hard time picturing the exact BASS format in the coon hound world and I don't think that it would really need to be to succede anyway.....

Im sure nothing I have typed is new to you since you have done it before. I really don't know what any of us can tell you anyway because it sounds like for any of this to happen again it is on the shoulders of one of the registeries to pick it up and run with it.

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__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

First off I don't know Joe,Dave, or Shawn personally and what I do know of them from other people has always been good. With that said none of my responses or questions to Dave was never meant as a "bashing" so if he took it as such I apologize. I didn't really see anyone else response as bashing either just questioning the concept or question. jmho

Maybe the reason I’m "getting it" now is that we are looking at a 180 view of where this thread started off. We are now listening to someone that is describing the desire to again produce a hound themed outdoor show, not a televised night hunt tournament series that has a rebuilt/revised registry comparable to Bass....


"Why not film major hunts? Because at the end of the day the participants of the final four of those major hunts don't want the "distraction" of having cameras in their face. It costs money to take a television production down the road and spend two or three days filming. And then to be at the mercy of the finalist of the competition as to "IF" we actually have footage for an episode....pretty risky."

One of the very points that I have tried to make over and over again about the difference in BASS and using the same format in coonhunting. Not even being able to film a major hunt (tournament - BASS) would make for a pretty different format than BASS or at least I would think?


"Have you priced a leopard hunt lately? We have had offers of folks all over the world to "come hunting with them"...and yes, if one of us had a desire to travel to Africa and kill a leopard over hounds, certainly there is an outfitter that would LOVE to have us come, and would guide us at no cost to us....but that doesn't mean that the hunt would be "free". I just checked, and air fare alone would be well over $6,000.00. If you included all of the other expenses incurred, it would be in the neighborhood of a $50,000 trip! (An all expenses paid leopard hunt including the trophy fee) If you know of anyone wanting to throw that kind of money at us to go on a leopard hunt...let me know...I'm up for the challenge!"

I have priced one recently and I have been to Africa several times and each trip has been the hunt of a lifetime. I have killed my fill of plains game and was working on the big 5 until life and two young boys came into the picture for me. Hopefully once they're grown I can get back to it with them tagging along! That being said I would love to see someone else kill "their" leopard over hounds because even though I love hunting over hounds that is one time that I would rather work on setting baits and watch the Cat come in on it's own accord. Want to milk that 50-60K for all its worth LOL It is doable because I have seen it televised before. But again this is what sponsors are for. And I would think producing a television program would be more driven by the viewer's desires instead of what your personal desires were. I mean ultimatly it comes down to what sells right?

"I don't buy into the "monopoly" analysis. Exposure creates it's own competition. Agreed, at this point, say Garmin, has the corner on the market for tracking systems. That wasn't the case a few years ago....but Garmin saw a niche, not in the coon hunting world by the way, and they took some existing technology that they already had...(Garmin Rhino radio) and altered it to fit on a dog....Bingo Bango you have the Garmin Astro. I know of one other company that already makes a GPS tracker/shocker system, and yet another that is in the development stage."

You may be right about this but if you were to stop the presses right now, who would be on top? You can't get sponsorship from a company that is just being developed and not even marketed yet. And the other GPS tracking collar available is virtually unknown when put up against the Garmon GPS....


"For the last four years, Dave and I have poured our heart and soul into promoting our sport in the best light that we could. Thousands of hours of research and development, on mastering a learning curve, and of doing something that everyone "in the business" of outdoor television told us "couldn't be done".... And in some cases we paid out of our own pockets to make it happen...not to be "patted on the back", but to gain the satisfaction that we did it, and we were able to entertain a few folks along the way."

It shows that you guys put a lot of work into your program and company I don’t doubt that for a second and I congratulate you on that!


"We now have a unique offering from a major network...to bring the sport of hounds and tree dogs to the forefront, and to put a positive spin on it. To educate some deer hunter that has a mental image of coon hunters, to offset some of the non factual "spin" created by rank and file deer hunt shows about the impact to deer hunting that night hunting supposedly has. And that opportunity also brings to the table national notoriety and advertising, public service announcements etc. for the registry. No coon hound or tree dog registry has ever been featured on national TV, or for that matter at the SHOT (sporting, hunting, outdoor trade) show held each year....This is the kind of recognition that we are in a position to offer...."

Sounds like you have a great opportunity and that if you play your cards right you will succeed and I hope you do! Again I would like to watch more hound themed TV shows!


"This whole post was meant to bring to light that there is a lot to be gained from coverage of our chosen sport, and the capitolization of this new and unique opportunity. To bring attention to our sport as being no different at its core, than many other sports that are wildly successful. What it turned into was bashing Dave, and poking holes in coon hunters, coon hunting, and the registry....."

I never bashed Dave or your company; I never poked holes into coon hunters, coon hunting or any registry. I am a coon hunter and have been for the majority of my life! A question was asked and people's opinions were given. By me or anyone else speaking of issues that are already in existence and have been for years we are not the creators of those issues. And if the question is, what makes one sport and it's participants different than another, and those very issues are part of the difference than yes that is part of how I would answer the question... Why ask a question then when people do their best to answer that question as they have understood it and it was worded, do you tell them their point of view is basically irrelevant? And in the same sense you say someone has been bashed I could say those whose view's were shared but happened to be different than what was wanted for exposure were themselves bashed for their opinions!!

Cart before the horse boys, cart before the horse.
things will become much clearer in the next few weeks...... (to be continued)

__________________
Calvin Elliott, Central Alabama.

quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge


Why not film major hunts? Because at the end of the day the participants of the final four of those major hunts don't want the "distraction" of having cameras in their face. It costs money to take a television production down the road and spend two or three days filming. And then to be at the mercy of the finalist of the competition as to "IF" we actually have footage for an episode....pretty risky.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by WildH2O
Cart before the horse boys, cart before the horse.
things will become much clearer in the next few weeks...... (to be continued)

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