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-- Silent trailers, tight mouthed & babblers (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928298196)

quote:

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Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
I am not here to argue. Does not matter what my dog did earlier. That was an example. Your statement was IF A PERSON STRIKES A DOG ON A LOCATE YOU ARE A CHEATER. That statement is wrong no matter how you want to present it. Does not matter silent or open trailer, the statement is wrong.

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my male dog opens up from the time he smells a track to the time he trees he might go 50 yards he might go 100 befor he strikes but when he does he is wide open until he hits the wood then its 110bpm katy bar the door treeing. now my female she will open up alittle right befor she checks then throw three fast chops and go into a steady chop when treed hopefully i put alittle more mouth in these pups on the ground idk them wipeout/lipper pups i had from what i herd are tighter then i pine knot on the ground but 90bpm on the tree so they might take after her like her last pups which idc their momma is a born coondog ive tryed to get her to run junk like possums and deer she just looks at me like im stupid and goes and finds me a coon just to think i had this dog up forsale not to long ago. hahaha glad nobody wanted her for 450

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foolen with them on the day I die.

A

quote:

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Originally posted by garminguru
Only you know if your dog fits the description of a silent dog or not and if he is, and you strike him on the locate, just like I would have to do with my dog normally, then yes, that to me is cheating and in violation of the spirit of the rule about scratching silent dogs!
A locate bark has to do with a tree becoming involved in the process, not the trailing part of it.
You guys bend this stuff and try to make your dogs fit in the rules all you want to, you are the ones who will answer for it some day.
A guy had a gr nt for sale on here a while back that was advertised as stone cold silent and someone asked how he finished the dog. The seller became very irrate because he just proved that he was a liar and a cheater because you can't finish a silent dog without lieing and cheating!

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quote:

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Originally posted by blackflagginit
A

sure you can. Ive NEVER, in close to 30yrs of comp hunting, seen this rule inforced and stick. like i said before i tried it twice and even the MOH's wouldnt stand for it. the rule is too loosely written and there isnt a cast in history or the future where there is accual PROOF a dog didnt open SOMEWHERE on the ground. the exact case both moh's made in the examples i gave before.

Ask kellam and he doesnt even have an EXACT criteria for scratching......he has even made examples of dogs opening at some point during the night, but running "several tracks" silent later on in the night, and that being enough to enforce the rule......however still no clear criteria........just the judges opinion or "feeling/knowing" the dog was silent. which in turn is why its never inforced and why MOH's refuse to enforce it at the clubhouse IF its inforced in the woods.

but then.....lets face it.......alot of these "coonhound advisor" opinions are handed down from the scurge of coonhunting himself, and maybe even before. some who have held the position werent even coonhunters, and at least 1 was pretty suspect when it came to an "honest opinion"

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I always went out of my way to judge, or handle, as honestly as i could. There are even a few mass printed scorecards to prove that...some i came out short on BECAUSE of that lol


I will agree that if you enter a dog who you KNOW is silent then your taking your chances......and if you strike someone elses dog as yours, well that is just outright cheating and there are a few out there who have taken minus from me for doing that EXACT thing

however as a judge, i just never felt i could inforce a rule that UKC's own reps couldnt CLEARLY define. I quit entering hunts because of a seperate ruling i refused to inforce in fact, because of the offical ruling on that rule. I didnt agree with it, and knew i wouldnt inforce it as a judge or vote in its favor as a cast member. therefor imo, i was unfit to compete any longer.

in retrospect though, that would have came eventualy anyway....i would have refused to judge the cur breed they now call hounds either on the bench or in the woods.

Barking once on good tracks is silent ... the day you gotta cling to one bark just to save face and say your dog is open ... you just sold yourself for the price of a cull hound.


In all the universe , there is no such thing as harmony but with one thing wrong ... if one thing is out of tilt then everything is out of tilt ... just because you are naive , kennel blind or can't judge things objectively doesn't mean the laws of physics don't apply.

Folks generally tend to like whatever traits they saw in their first good dog ... or hate a trait in any dog that reminds them of some pain in the butt dog they had or hunted with ... it's human nature to twist things in your head to make yourself happy with what you have.

That's why so few humans are ever top breeders or hunters ... the ones that are end up being in the magazines year after year or breeding good dogs for generation after generation ... if we all had the discipline and judgement we think we do , it would be harder for anyone to stand out like that .

But , it don't hurt me if other guys settle or pretend a silent dog is great or that one bark makes em' open .... just makes it easier to spot guys I don't need to associate with .

Why not change the rules back and not give these LOSE MOUTHED BABBLIN IDIOTS THE MINUTE EACH TURN LOSE and break these strike stealing bark bark bark idiots thru the week or send em home on the week end. Change the rules to fit the dog !!!!

Everyone is scared to death of a tight or silent mouth dog why ???? You cant beat em even when you are stealin all the first strikes with that babblin idiot.... A tight or silent mouthed dog has a lot of sense ,,,,,,, dont bark at the house or in the truck goin down always lookin to get treed not for something to run and chase clear across the county ........

The tighter the better !!!!

The debate continues and nobody agrees ; After all arent we too just babbling ; Some have decided to remain silent , ( we still have that rite lol) we have conveinced one not to comp hunt reminded me why I hate it. Does it really matter if the hound suits you ?

If we are going to scratch the babblers and the silent ones. Then lets go one step further and scratch the me too dogs. then the only dogs coming to hunts r coon dogs. Yes I cant wait. a hunt where every dog is a dead loner. don't know about u alls dog but mine will make u walk. Maybe not now that we have gotten rid of the babblers. He might be a close hunter now. Man I hope so. four dogs get deep and split hunt is over after u cut them loose. good luck all and good hunting

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quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
It has nothing to do with who beat who.....RULES are RULES like them or not! Opening on track has little to nothing to do with whether a dog is independant, will or won't back another dog or has the ability to find a coon on it's own or fall split treed. As for your statement "at least I know I'm packing a real coondog" that's your perception not mine. To me a "real coondog" opens on track like the breed standard and nite hunt rules call for.

For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would want to own and hunt a silent dog. Most of the enjoyment of running hounds is listening to their voice. A silent track dog doesn't do anything at all for me and I definately would not own or breed to one even if it's a "real coondog" LOL

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Give me that 1 st and 1 st type dog 225 plus.
Honest 1st strike that can fly on track and hook with the grease.
Thats my kinda hound.If i wanted a silent dog,i would hunt Cur.

A dog is supposed to be an open trailer. That is more of a hound characteristic.
If everyome hinted a silent dog,what is the point in javing strike points?
Just go with tree pointa only.


A babbler is the hardest thing in the world to prove..
I even tried to catch one by cutting one in a green field.That was theonly drop that she didnt babble,i swear ,i think the had her trained to not babble in grass.lmbo

__________________
Twix
Gr Nt CH TREE SLAMMIN HAMMER

2011 RQE NEWPORT,TN 5 TH PLACE
2011 WORLD Qualifier
2011 BnT Days Cast Winner
2012 Cast Winner TN State
2012 3 rd Place Grnt,s BNT days
2012 World Qualifier Meigs Cnty RQE 4 rth place
2012 zones Virginia 4rth place
2012 TOP 100 WORLD HUNT
2013 4th high scoring dog fri night,TN State
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Black Bear
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Bigtime Drama
2014 World Qualifier

quote:

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Originally posted by englishbuddy
Why not change the rules back and not give these LOSE MOUTHED BABBLIN IDIOTS THE MINUTE EACH TURN LOSE and break these strike stealing bark bark bark idiots thru the week or send em home on the week end. Change the rules to fit the dog !!!!

Everyone is scared to death of a tight or silent mouth dog why ???? You cant beat em even when you are stealin all the first strikes with that babblin idiot.... A tight or silent mouthed dog has a lot of sense ,,,,,,, dont bark at the house or in the truck goin down always lookin to get treed not for something to run and chase clear across the county ........

The tighter the better !!!!

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Home of
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i would bet most people ain't packin near as good of a dog as they say or they wouldnt be so worried about a me too dog or a silent dog. everyone needs a dog to get by itself, i wonder if that is because they are afraid it might get left behind on track because it is so slooow

quote:

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Originally posted by chip johnson
i would bet most people ain't packin near as good of a dog as they say or they wouldnt be so worried about a me too dog or a silent dog. everyone needs a dog to get by itself, i wonder if that is because they are afraid it might get left behind on track because it is so slooow

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bobby Reynolds
LOL You have made a statement that brings a quote to mind.

"He was to slow to be with the pack, so I had to make him be off to himself." I won't tell you who said it, but he started winning with the dog because he was always by hisself with the coon.

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Babbler or Silent one as bad as the other and should both be scratched period

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If a man had half his wishes he would double his troubles

I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out

Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film

Well why stop there !!!!! The dog that has to be deep and alone all the time ,,,,,,,,,,,, IS A NONE PARTICIPATING DOG AND SHOULD BE SCRATCHED AND CULLED IT IS A FAULT !!!!!!

I quit hunting about 15 years ago and just started back, the biggest dissapointment to me is trying to find a dog that will bark like a hound is supposed to bark. Competition hunting has ruined a lot of hounds. Hounds should be open trailers, not babblers or silent. What good is a good mouth on a dog if he dont use it. Ilike to hear a good mouth on a hound that uses it right if you want a silent dog hunt a cur , but I think you have already hurt the hounds to a degree that they will never be the same.

__________________
Half the lies they tell about me aint
true

If silent dogs hunt,why not register and allow mntn cur to hunt with us.

__________________
Twix
Gr Nt CH TREE SLAMMIN HAMMER

2011 RQE NEWPORT,TN 5 TH PLACE
2011 WORLD Qualifier
2011 BnT Days Cast Winner
2012 Cast Winner TN State
2012 3 rd Place Grnt,s BNT days
2012 World Qualifier Meigs Cnty RQE 4 rth place
2012 zones Virginia 4rth place
2012 TOP 100 WORLD HUNT
2013 4th high scoring dog fri night,TN State
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Black Bear
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Bigtime Drama
2014 World Qualifier

quote:

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Originally posted by gunslinger266
I quit hunting about 15 years ago and just started back, the biggest dissapointment to me is trying to find a dog that will bark like a hound is supposed to bark. Competition hunting has ruined a lot of hounds. Hounds should be open trailers, not babblers or silent. What good is a good mouth on a dog if he dont use it. Ilike to hear a good mouth on a hound that uses it right if you want a silent dog hunt a cur , but I think you have already hurt the hounds to a degree that they will never be the same.

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__________________
Twix
Gr Nt CH TREE SLAMMIN HAMMER

2011 RQE NEWPORT,TN 5 TH PLACE
2011 WORLD Qualifier
2011 BnT Days Cast Winner
2012 Cast Winner TN State
2012 3 rd Place Grnt,s BNT days
2012 World Qualifier Meigs Cnty RQE 4 rth place
2012 zones Virginia 4rth place
2012 TOP 100 WORLD HUNT
2013 4th high scoring dog fri night,TN State
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Black Bear
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Bigtime Drama
2014 World Qualifier

Those of you wanting to not stop at babblers and silent dogs and get the me tooers also need to understand there is not a rule that prohibits me tooers from participating.
If you enter a me tooer you are not knowingly being dishonest or breaking the rules.

Your right about no rules against a mee too dog. There is none. But it sure shows what kind of houndsman the person hunting one is.

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we all want the "perfect dog".problem is that dog has never lived.
its not the best dog that usually wins! its the dog {and handler} that makes the least mistakes!

So if a hound takes an old feed works its 800 yards or opens 4 or 5 times as he trees check , has the coon he is ( ) .

silent dogs

I love to draw silent dogs. I will win 90% of the time. Babblers is another story, especialy if they are alone alot. You cant hardly beat a dog that gets 1st strike every time and still trees a coon somwhere most of the time. If an honest strike dog gets to his self a lot and trees coons he will beat the silent dog most of the time. Like I said, I love to draw them silent dogs.......