UKC Forums - Those Maintaining "old blood"

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 01-09-2014 12:08 AM:

Black & Tans By Eads since 1946

DADDYS SIDE -------------

Starlight Buckaroo 1948-49

BP'S Big Slick

Starlight Buckaroo 1948 -49

MOMMYS SIDE ----------------------

I have Maintained the same Pedigree since 1979 -80

My farther and Uncles carried the same blood line Brusier / Riny / Drifter / Liza Jane / Ruby , these were a few of the dogs that went back to Legs aka Starlight Buckaroo

Not sure how many can say that besides me

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Posted by boozeboxer on 01-09-2014 12:11 AM:

Dogs are always better after they have died.

Posted by mike shannon on 01-09-2014 01:22 AM:

I line breed on the Hillbilly Mac blood and have had very good success. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

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Posted by elkrauskopf on 01-09-2014 02:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by boozeboxer
Dogs are always better after they have died.

Same can be said for some --------

__________________
Helping to preserve John Wade's Comanche line.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-09-2014 04:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by David Morgan
To Quote Joe
"I've learned that breeding for bloodline will indeed lead you down the path to diminishing return. There I said it. If you are breeding ONLY for bloodlines, it's a losing battle....HOWEVER, if you are line breeding and still being selective in what crosses you make, and are being critical of WHY you are making those crosses I will always believe you are on the right path."
I've waited a long time to hear somebody else say that. I hear so many people considering the names on a pedigree to determine a bloodline when instead they would be better served to abserve the traits and maintain the line of traits instead. I have line bred what I consider the "House" traits for 35 years outcrossing periodically adding traits that I desire. Many people try to breed this line by adding the word "House's"
in front of a dogs name.

Joe, If you dislike chop mouth track dogs as much as I do, why would you ever consider adding to your dogs?

Man you caught me off guard. Took me a while to unravel what you were getting at.

What I said was that I would not introduce a chop mouthed dog into my breeding program. I've resisted that, and in fact have sold at least one REALLY GOOD female BECAUSE she ended up being chop mouthed. I wasn't aware of the fact that her grandmother (I purchased her mother as an eight week old puppy) was chop on the ground. As much as I would love to have kept her and breed her...I moved her down the road. At the time, I was STILL under the assumption that if the pedigrees line up...I was line breeding. And to some folks definition, I was. She was partially instrumental in my understanding, and my personal redefiniton of line breeding. I now consider it linebred when the individuals are closely related and share the same traits.

Now, admittedly, I ended up with that female back....and yes I bred her. But......I made the only outcross that I've made in years using her. She is heavy line bred on my stuff, and the sire was heavy line bred on a different line. Call it a breeding experiement or a total screw up...time will tell. If it is successful, it was an experiment, if it fails...I screwed up. The bottom line is that I'm still heavily invested in what I've spent the last 20 years or so breeding for, and I made this cross without endangering my "line" of dogs. They are an independant breeding initiative.

The pups are six months old, and some of them are just now getting the opportunity to start. The one that I have started is ANYTHING but chop mouth on the ground... I have no intentions of adding her as "breeding stock" to my breeding pool.....but that doesn't mean that I've been successful, or a failure...

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Ray Walburn on 01-09-2014 04:08 PM:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by David Morgan
To Quote Joe
"I've learned that breeding for bloodline will indeed lead you down the path to diminishing return. There I said it. If you are breeding ONLY for bloodlines, it's a losing battle....HOWEVER, if you are line breeding and still being selective in what crosses you make, and are being critical of WHY you are making those crosses I will always believe you are on the right path."
I've waited a long time to hear somebody else say that. I hear so many people considering the names on a pedigree to determine a bloodline when instead they would be better served to abserve the traits and maintain the line of traits instead. I have line bred what I consider the "House" traits for 35 years outcrossing periodically adding traits that I desire. Many people try to breed this line by adding the word "House's"
in front of a dogs name.

Joe, If you dislike chop mouth track dogs as much as I do, why would you ever consider adding to your dogs?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------There are a lot of people they will just breed to keep that one name on the paper work . If you line breed YOU HAVE TO CULL not sell every pup to make a dollar Not everyone knows what you bred the dog for (traits) so if you sell them all your just doing it for the name on the paper work not to better the blood or the breed . So Bill has a dog with the name ********* if he don't know what the dogs are known for (nose /tree/ chop/ etc.)all he knows is hey my dog has ******** on its paper work ....jmo

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I forgive people but that doesn't mean I accept their behavior or trust them I forgive them 4 me, so I can let go and move on with my life

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People who are INTIMIDATED by you talk bad about you with hopes that others wont find you as appealing!

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-09-2014 05:27 PM:

Ray,

There were seven pups in that litter. I have had a whole lot of folks that want to buy one out of this cross....I still own four of the pups, and gave two of them to my buddies, and traded one for a pup out of the same sire and a female that is bred quite a bit like my female.

I learned a long time ago that there is NO money to be made selling pups, and I have way too much invested to ever hope to make even a "break even" point.

I breed for me, and for me only....I sell off some "excess" pups, and have no aspiration of being famous....

The very last thing in the world that I want to do is mislead anyone.

The other side of the coin is that most guys buying pups today have no idea what they are buying. They have never hunted with the dog that they believe is a super dog either because they read where it won this hunt or that hunt, or they believe that because the dog is "famous" it's pups must be good, and they can get rich raising a pup and selling the next great dog.....

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Ray Walburn on 01-09-2014 06:12 PM:

oakridge sent you a pm Sorry

Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-09-2014 06:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ray Walburn
oakridge sent you a pm Sorry

Got it...no harm, no foul.....Your PM box is full!

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Robert Starke on 01-09-2014 10:13 PM:

Lugar

Hi,

No I guess I am lost. I have no idea what you are talking about. Jewell has never had pups.

Jewell and Hawk are half brother and sister. Jewell treed her own coon at 10 months old at my house. Hawk was treeing a squirrel on his own before he was 10 weeks old and I know this because I was talking to Jr. right after he treed.

I have no knowledge of crosses between Pearl, Ruby, and Lugar. I have no idea if they were good crosses or not. Teddy owns Mundar.

I was told Pearl was high scoring dog Friday night at the MCHF Hunt in October. Her score was 600+. Her wins to make Nt Ch. came at an RQE, a local hunt, and at The Battle of the Breeds. 4 hunts and 3 firsts. I personally have never hunted with her.

Jewell has Finley River, Mundo, Flying Hawk and Lipper in her pedigree up close. This is the same blood I have been breeding and will continue. It produces coondogs.

Come for a hunt anytime between October and March.

Good Hunting,
Robert

__________________
Gr. Ch. UKC 1st place win Finley River Zig HTX
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Trap 2015 6th Annual Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Hunt and Show Ch female Overall female and Opposite Sex winner

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Wild Bill's Lill 21.05% reproduction record
Starke's Finley River Little Lill
Dual Gr. Ch. Wild Bill's Queen UKC RQE 112 winner 725+ 2006 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Rattler 2
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sadie
Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.TrackMan's Stone Cold HTX 2009 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2009 UKC World Hunt Zone 5 Hunt 14th place 2011 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Dual Ch. PKC Ch.Track Man's Mad Dash 2007 PKC SS qualifier 2008 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club Final Hunt winner 2012 MCHF Youth State Championship 2nd place 2012 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year
Gr. Ch. Finley River Cadillac Jane 2006 PKC Walker Days BOSF 2006 UKC RQE 74 Ch winner 2006 Trackman Invitational Queen of Show 2007 MCHF State Hunt Ch. female winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Cozi
Gr Nt Ch Starke's Finley River Super Man HTX 2017 Mid Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF Dick Gray Memorial Hunt High Scoring Dog and King of the Hunt 2018 Mid-Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF State Final Hunt the only double cast winner Final Four 3rd place winner 2019 BBCHA Sectional Madison, MO Gr Nt Ch/ Nt Ch Cast winner and High Scoring dog 2019 BBOA Richard Casey Tribute Hunt High Scoring Dog 750+ Thursday night and 825+ Friday night 2019 MCHF State Final Hunt Final Four 2nd place winner 2020 UKC World Hunt Qualifier at Marshall, MO March 21st

Dual Gr Ch Wild Bill's April 2016 UKC RQE 97 Ch winner

Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Jane 2006 UKC RQE 74 Gr Ch winner
Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Sugar 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Ch of Ch winner
Starke's Finley River Jake
Hoghill's Finley River Rip
Hoghill's Finley River Candie

Starke's Finley River Stubbie
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tuff
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Steel
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Fame

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Jane
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Ramblin Iron Man
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Bat Man

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tanna
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Lightning
Starke"s Finley River Ramblin John Henry
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Dan
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sister
Starke's Finley River Diamond
Starke's Finley River General Robert E Lee

Starke's Finley River Stormy
Clark's Finley River Spot PKC cast / money winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sage

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Paige

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Lou HTX passed times 1 Littermate of
PKC Gold Ch Gr Nt Ch Snitch, mother of Batman

Gr Ch. Starke's Finley River Ramblin Emma HTX
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sugar Boy
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Randi
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Little Emma

Gr.Ch. Starke's Table Rock Jewell 2007 RQE 5 BOSF winner 2007 MCHF State Hunt BOSF winner 2009 RQE 28 Best of Show female winner 2009 MCHF State Hunt Ch of Ch Female winner 2010 MCHF State Hunt Gr Ch winner and Queen of Show 2010 Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Queen of Show 2011 Gr Ch Louisiana State Championship 2012 NE Missouri Black & Tan Sectional Gr. Ch. female 2012 MCHF Spring Classic Gr Ch female 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch winner 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr Ch winner 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2012 UKC Current Top 10 2012 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year

Gr Ch Little Walnut Queen Bathsheba 2011 SWTWA BFOS and Queen of Show 2011 MCHA State Hunt BFOS 2011 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show BFOS 2012 MCHF State Hunt Ch Female and Queen of Show 2012 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show Ch. Female 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 TWB&F Walker Days Gr. Ch. female and Queen of Show 2013 Kentucky State Championship Gr. Ch. female and Opposite Sex winner 2013 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 ACHA World Hunt and Show BFOS 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 Lee Crawford Invitaional qualifier
Gr Ch Little Walnut Zipporah

Gr Ch A & B Preacher 2012 Saluda Days King of Show 2013 MCHF State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2013 MO Governor's Cup State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2014 RQE #11 Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 SWTWA Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2014 Kansas State Championship Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 UKC's Top 10 List 2014 Purina's Bench Show Top Ten List 2014 MCHF Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 MCHF Summer Classic King of Show 2014 MCHF State Hunt and Show GR. Ch. Winner Friday 2014 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year 2015 Purina Nationals qualifier 2015 Kansas State Championship Friday Gr Ch winner 2016 Purina Nationals qualifier

Gr Ch Table Rock Reverend Mundo Hawk 2010 MCHF State Hunt Best Male of Show 2011 MCHF Spring Classic Gr. Ch. male and King of Show 2011 UKC RQE 88 Gr Ch male 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch male 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr. Ch. male and King Of Show 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. male 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier

"Fast is Good. Accuracy is Everything." Wyatt Earp

Posted by elkrauskopf on 01-09-2014 11:01 PM:

My fault. I was talking about the Comanche dogs. Pearls last litter was out of Luger. That was 6 years ago. Have you had Jewell the whole time. Jr said he tried to breed her and she didn't take. I hunted with pearl and she is nice.

__________________
Helping to preserve John Wade's Comanche line.

Posted by elkrauskopf on 01-09-2014 11:05 PM:

Re: Gr. Ch. UKC 1st place win Finley River Zig HTX

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert Starke
[B]Hi,

Start with a great dog, Nt Ch. Finley River Chief. Take probably his best reproducing son, Gr. Nt. Ch. Mears' Finley River Dan and linebreed that strain for 35 years. I have kept the same traits I started with through linebreeding. That is the only way to keep it.

Just my opinion but you bought all these dogs that went back to a cross you made years ago.

__________________
Helping to preserve John Wade's Comanche line.

Posted by chuck west on 01-09-2014 11:13 PM:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------There are a lot of people they will just breed to keep that one name on the paper work . If you line breed YOU HAVE TO CULL not sell every pup to make a dollar Not everyone knows what you bred the dog for (traits) so if you sell them all your just doing it for the name on the paper work not to better the blood or the breed . So Bill has a dog with the name ********* if he don't know what the dogs are known for (nose /tree/ chop/ etc.)all he knows is hey my dog has ******** on its paper work ....jmo

__________________
Lets go huntin boys

Kinda whippin a dead horse aren't you reddogg?

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 01-10-2014 12:56 AM:

Re: Those Maintaining "old blood"

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Are there any people on this thread, that are purely maintaining the old bloodlines,

Does such a person and program exist? Or is theory one correct, and they might, but there not on here to respond???

David Schmidt

YES I do exist , good luck on your quest

__________________
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Proud Member of the Black & Tan associations
Here Comes BP

Posted by mike shannon on 01-10-2014 02:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
I line breed on the Hillbilly Mac blood and have had very good success. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Isn't that what line breeding is, trying to keep the blood that you like up close as possible and keep it because YOU like it? I try to keep WORLDNITE CHAMPION SMITHS HILLBILLY MAC on my papers as much as I can. I have excellent reports on the pups I produce so it must be working for me. But jealousy just won't let some move on..LOL my wife and I strive to better the breed. Like you said Oak Ridge some buy a dog off "famous" dogs then get upset because they don't turn out.

Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-10-2014 05:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
Isn't that what line breeding is, trying to keep the blood that you like up close as possible and keep it because YOU like it? I try to keep WORLDNITE CHAMPION SMITHS HILLBILLY MAC on my papers as much as I can. I have excellent reports on the pups I produce so it must be working for me. But jealousy just won't let some move on..LOL my wife and I strive to better the breed. Like you said Oak Ridge some buy a dog off "famous" dogs then get upset because they don't turn out.

Perhaps... line breeding would be one approach, to maintaining an older "line", but not the only way. For example, in my original post I did state that some of the old lines, had their weaknesses, but perhaps over the years, those weaknesses were bred-out by people such as yourself. I'm assuming, that one reason for line-breeding, is "more of the same", which would mean breeding out some of these traits would require strategic out-crosses.

But that too could be done, while maintaining "old blood" by simply finding someone such as yourself with a different line. Outcrosses between House and Finley River, for example.

__________________
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219-614-0654

Posted by deschmidt27 on 01-10-2014 05:44 PM:

Along this same train of thought... Am I the only one that doesn't think "drive" has to mean a quarter mile deep???

If so, and you are one of these "keepers of old blood" have you acheived a line of dogs with drive and accuracy? If so, have you competed them and what has been your luck against those dogs horse-racing off into the distance?

__________________
David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Posted by Kris Cisna on 01-10-2014 07:55 PM:

This is one of the best threads I have seen posted... I could venture to say for myself this IS the best thread posted..

I think not only for the breeding aspect this thread also helps in the "what to look for when purchasing a dog or pup" department.

My hats of to a few of you!!

__________________
Of course, she is a hound … the moment she realizes that I’ve been bragging her up… and has an audience…..she’ll go trash on a deer or pull some other equally idiotic stunt..

Posted by Trinket clark on 01-10-2014 11:34 PM:

Line breeding with a purpose!

It's been my experience that if you like what you have ,and the traits you've got.. Be very selective in your breeding process, only breeding the best out of each litter to the best out of another litter..paying close attention to the traits you want to keep and build on. I've been Line Breeding Brookshier bred hounds for over 15 yrs, and been hunting them for almost 20yrs..I don't make a cross to sell pups , only crosses I make is to try and better what I already have. Line breed heavy and make an out cross when needed...But only to a dog that has the same traits you like, and maybe something your trying to improve on. Then line breed heavy again. May not be the best plan of attack but it seems to work well enough for me, but I'm still learning and always open minded...this is a good thread, a lot of good info.

__________________
Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale

~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

Posted by josh on 01-11-2014 04:47 AM:

At what point does "maintaining a blood line" simply become "paper breeding"?

There are plenty of guys that want to keep some sort of blood line going but very few can keep hunting them hard enough to be competitive in the woods.

If that "old blood" was as good as some say, it wouldn't have died off in the first place.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 01-11-2014 04:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh

If that "old blood" was as good as some say, it wouldn't have died off in the first place.

Do What??

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-11-2014 04:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Along this same train of thought... Am I the only one that doesn't think "drive" has to mean a quarter mile deep???

If so, and you are one of these "keepers of old blood" have you acheived a line of dogs with drive and accuracy? If so, have you competed them and what has been your luck against those dogs horse-racing off into the distance?

Dave,

I'm afraid that some of what you want is contradictory.....

If I am understanding what you are asking, you want a dog that hunts close, but hunts hard and has pinpoint accuracy, AND you want a dog that will consistently win in competition. Partially because 10 or 15 years ago, you were successful with that type of dog and you long to get back "to the good ole days".

Well buddy, why do you think that the style of dogs changed? Because while what you think might be the ultimate dog, and I think a lot like you do along with many others, the fact is that the "go yonder", run under six to tree one, wired 440, burn up a deer and fall off on a coon, bark all over the world till you find one dogs WIN....and they will more times than not come out on top of the average competition hunt. That style of dog started to be chosen as breeding stock BECAUSE THEY WIN.

Stud dogs with what some would consider serious faults are bred frequently because the pups, although complete with those same faults, start consistently at six months old, somehow giving pup owners the false sense of security that because the pup started at six moths old they have the next "great one".

The bottom line is that as coon hunters, we are at a junction. We MUST simply make a decision about what type of dog we want to hunt. If you want to win in competition hunts, you need a dog that hunts far and wide, getting to themselves and in some cases walking that off that close hunting dog that is pinpoint accurate.....simply because the current rules favor a dog that is by itself and that the only REAL way to score points is to get treed. Making lots of trees does indeed produce lots of points. No getting around it.

Now, I'm not saying that the dog that you describe can not win. They do win occasionally. They win when the other dogs "make mistakes".. They win on nights where conditions (wind, rain, snow, terrain etc) make it tough to hear and follow the long range dog...course now we have trackers in competition so at least someone in the cast can point to "which way did they go"....making the problem worse for your choice of dog,....not better. But overall they are at a disadvantage in today's competition hunting game.

The dogs of today are bred according to traits that win more consistently than what you are looking for.....so you are indeed looking for contradictory goals.

Having said that, I got the pleasure to hunt with a little "half breed" dog a few years ago. Russ Bellar's Lil Red was the dog you are looking for. Not a dang thing flashy about her but her nose. Fact is her mouth was far less than average..so if she got really deep....you could barely hear her. She won a BUNCH by simply treeing coon. She was a freak in the nose departement, and is the ever present "exception to the rule".

My advice to you to find dogs you like, hunt them...take them to competition hunts and win what you can. When you go home a loser (like 75% of the folks that enter) figure out a way to be satisfied in the fact that you have dogs you like the other nights of the month.....

__________________
Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Nance/Gordon on 01-11-2014 06:31 AM:

Thought I was getting my 5 cents in and hit the wrong button so I titled it White River Rowdy. (new thread) I might be that breeder you thought wouldn't respond.I make every cross for my next dog. White River Kennel.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 01-11-2014 01:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
At what point does "maintaining a blood line" simply become "paper breeding"?

There are plenty of guys that want to keep some sort of blood line going but very few can keep hunting them hard enough to be competitive in the woods.

If that "old blood" was as good as some say, it wouldn't have died off in the first place.

i am not a great writer or story teller in 1965 there was a old
grade dog that scored 650 pts in 3 hrs.100 both ways nobody
new his blood line nobody cared.dogs were worth 15 to 20 dollars.do we really score much more than that today in world hunts?dogs only get so good.they breed tree just like today
after they tree you have to make up your mind what you want
to do with them.

Posted by chip johnson on 01-11-2014 03:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Along this same train of thought... Am I the only one that doesn't think "drive" has to mean a quarter mile deep???

If so, and you are one of these "keepers of old blood" have you acheived a line of dogs with drive and accuracy? If so, have you competed them and what has been your luck against those dogs horse-racing off into the distance?

i dont get to competition hunt much, local hunts only and no big hunts because of my line of work. 99% pleasure hunter 1% competition hunter. With that being said i like the dog that hunts around hard not just going deep. I dont want a dog that just gets treed blowing threw the woods i like to hear the dogs work the track, hit the tree and lock down. I like to see nice quailty work from the dogs.

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