UKC Forums - beep beep vs garmin

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-- beep beep vs garmin (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928262164)

Posted by chasinbear on 10-01-2012 08:38 PM:

yea done all that.the system just didnt work for me.some people like it some dont.i just didnt understand the point of having it and buying the long range antennas and constant updates and it still lose signal when dogs go behind a ridge.plus the 40 collars are tiwain made junk imo had to send 2 of them back that werent a month old.not very durable.id like to see a company that has been in the telemetry business awhile come out with something.they know about durability a relyability.id like to see a stans alone gps tracking system that had a good battery life and range.the garmin is a good start but years away from what we need

Posted by corra on 10-01-2012 10:24 PM:

What really needs to happen, is "Wildlife" needs to make a GPS tracking system, then you would have something worth the money and something you could trust and something that would never let you down!! and I bet it would not be made of Taiwan junk parts!! USA parts only.

Posted by chasinbear on 10-01-2012 10:50 PM:

i agree with you.wildlife or quick track would be good.ive always had good dealings with them.i got a blue box that is probably 25 years old and was given to me by a friend and ust needed a battery.fixed it for 30 bucks.been using it for years and its never quit on me.got a marshall 4000 i carry on my back and it is a nice system

Posted by Frankenstein on 10-02-2012 12:33 AM:

A Garmin will never out perform a telemetry system,it's not possible ,shy of strapping a satellite dish on your dog and back. . Two totally different operating systems. If they could combine both in one unit would be the best thing they could do and couldn't keep up with demand.They both have thier pros and cons .

Posted by garminguru on 10-02-2012 12:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein
A Garmin will never out perform a telemetry system,it's not possible ,shy of strapping a satellite dish on your dog and back. . Two totally different operating systems. If they could combine both in one unit would be the best thing they could do and couldn't keep up with demand.They both have thier pros and cons .

Tell you what lets do.... Bring your best telemetry system and we will let someone drive until 15 miles shows on their tripometer and we will let them hang the collars in a tree or toss them in a ditch. We will lay $100 dollars out on the hood of the truck 10 different times and whoever lays their hands on their collar first gets to pick up the money.
We will do this 10 different times and I bet you I will win nine times but probably actually all ten!!!

Posted by BB&LKennels on 10-02-2012 01:05 AM:

sound's like a good idea but let the collars lay out there for 2 day's and you are going to loose all 10 time's i have both and would never turn a dog out with just a garmin on it they just don't cut it in the mountain's. hunted in south carolina and they didn't do any better down there.

Posted by garminguru on 10-02-2012 03:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BB&LKennels
sound's like a good idea but let the collars lay out there for 2 day's and you are going to loose all 10 time's i have both and would never turn a dog out with just a garmin on it they just don't cut it in the mountain's. hunted in south carolina and they didn't do any better down there.

I don't know about two days but if I switch to the 30 second update rate on a fully charged collar it may scare you how long that thing will last. My dog will not be out there 2 days if he is wearing the garmin, I will have him retrieved within hours if I see it as being a problem!
People comparing the battery times on these telemetry vs. garmin collars have no understanding on what it is these things are doing and how they have to work. By saying the battery is so much better on a telemetry system, you are basically admitting you know nothing about the concept of either unit!

Posted by Frankenstein on 10-02-2012 11:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by garminguru
Tell you what lets do.... Bring your best telemetry system and we will let someone drive until 15 miles shows on their tripometer and we will let them hang the collars in a tree or toss them in a ditch. We will lay $100 dollars out on the hood of the truck 10 different times and whoever lays their hands on their collar first gets to pick up the money.
We will do this 10 different times and I bet you I will win nine times but probably actually all ten!!!

I'd like to see either system picked up at 15 miles from a ground based vantage point. I have both and see the advantages of both. I'd take the beeep beep over the Garmin if I was only allowed one.

Posted by shawnfitzgerald on 10-02-2012 01:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BB&LKennels
Anyone with a mojo dont need a garmin all they do is babble all night long hard to loose a babbling dog hunted with quit a few MOJO dog's.

Mr that has to be the stupidest post I have ever seen. Why talk about someone's dog like that I'm sure you never hunted with mojo he's not that way sure he's thrown some pups like that what stud dog that's been bred much has not.. No dog is perfect nor tracking system or person. Respect yourself a little bit when you run down a dog or man like that it makes you out to be the bad person. I'm sure you don't care what people think of you but you should

Posted by garminguru on 10-02-2012 05:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein
I'd like to see either system picked up at 15 miles from a ground based vantage point. I have both and see the advantages of both. I'd take the beeep beep over the Garmin if I was only allowed one.

So, your the one saying telemetry outperforms the garmin, and I know it would probably never be feasible because we probably live too far apart, but would you take me up on this challenge if you could?
I would promise you that you would not want to lay those $100 bills down!
I never said either unit would pick up 15 miles, I am just making sure that neither unit had ANY reception when we started out and to try and make it more fair to you!

Posted by David Webb on 10-02-2012 07:07 PM:

bet

garminguru
I'll do you a bet,
You come to where I hunt & I'll put a new standard DC30 garmin collar (Not Yours or mine)where a dog COULD be within 15 miles & I'll hand you a new Garmin 220 (Not Yours or Mine) & bet you $1000 you can't find the collar 9 out of ten times
Finding it means you putting it in my hands
David

__________________
NT CH "PR" Turkey Creek Playboy
Dual Grand Ridgeway's Deep Creek Zena
Dual Grand Laurel Fork Mongo
Grand Night Tight as a Cord

Posted by Frankenstein on 10-02-2012 07:44 PM:

I've found and retrieved many a slipped tracking collar with a wildlife. Haven't lost one yet . What you haven't taken into account is where some bear hunt your not going to get in and out of with any tracker in some areas, you may have to wait for the dogs to come out of those areas themselves. Collar isn't much good if it's went dead. A garmin collar in no way is going to take the abuse and last as long as a regular tracking collar for as long. You can talk circles all day, they are not as dependable no matter which way you turn them. There was no need for "guru's" with the old equipment. You pulled it out ,turned it on it worked every time, no foreplay required. I've already seen several posts on here where the Garmin system failed for whatever reason and ended up having no part in the evential reteival of the dogs. A combination of both systems would be the perfect tracking system, no if ands or buts about it.

Posted by garminguru on 10-02-2012 10:27 PM:

Re: bet

quote:
Originally posted by David Webb
garminguru
I'll do you a bet,
You come to where I hunt & I'll put a new standard DC30 garmin collar (Not Yours or mine)where a dog COULD be within 15 miles & I'll hand you a new Garmin 220 (Not Yours or Mine) & bet you $1000 you can't find the collar 9 out of ten times
Finding it means you putting it in my hands
David

Why could we not use yours or mine? I have to ensure the equipment is working properly and you can't cheat.
That would mean putting the collar where it will keep GPS lock. If you are going to throw it in a hole or a cave where it can't function as it was designed then nobody would be able to find it!

Posted by markknepp on 10-02-2012 10:35 PM:

IMO comparing the the garmin to a beep beep is like comparing a horse and buggy to a new truck. Complaining about the the garmin is like complaining that the truck you got after ditching your horse isn't fwd.

True ther is room for improvement on the garmin and maybe in some few situations a beep beep is better but I sure won't ever go back to a beep beep.

When my dog goes over a mile I can go straight to her while you drive around the block four times to pinpoint your dog. I can make two drops while you burn gas tracking your dog down.

Posted by garminguru on 10-02-2012 10:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein
I've found and retrieved many a slipped tracking collar with a wildlife. Haven't lost one yet . What you haven't taken into account is where some bear hunt your not going to get in and out of with any tracker in some areas, you may have to wait for the dogs to come out of those areas themselves. Collar isn't much good if it's went dead. A garmin collar in no way is going to take the abuse and last as long as a regular tracking collar for as long. You can talk circles all day, they are not as dependable no matter which way you turn them. There was no need for "guru's" with the old equipment. You pulled it out ,turned it on it worked every time, no foreplay required. I've already seen several posts on here where the Garmin system failed for whatever reason and ended up having no part in the evential reteival of the dogs. A combination of both systems would be the perfect tracking system, no if ands or buts about it.

I will agree to a point on the bear hunting issue but 98% of the time, this is not the case. Most hunters be it bear or coon do not get a dog in a place where "they can't get to" very often. They may be too lazy to try but that is another issue.
Why have you had many slipped tracking collars? I have hunted thousands of hours and have never had a collar slipped that I can recall.
As a matter of a fact I only know of one collar that ever came off of people I even knew and they were bear hunters. The collar was telemetry only about 1/4 mile from the main rd. They looked for that collar for hours trying to "locate" it and never did. It did beep for weeks though that is for sure!
My argument is against folks complaining about the range, not the fact some have had failures. I know there have been failures and I do not dispute that, especially with the 40s. Alot of this stuff is cock pit error.
Let that old beep beep show you where the next road is that your dog is fixing to get into!

Every time in two years I have pulled my Garmin out it has worked so I can't relate to it not working.

Posted by john Duemmer on 10-02-2012 10:42 PM:

About a hundred years ago this same argument was going on about the horse Vs. the car. The horse guys argued that a horse never runs out of gas or has a flat tire. You dont see many folks getting around on a horse anymore. GPS. technology is a huge leap ahead of the old beep beep systems. I have hunted all over this country and a garmin will get you to your hounds if you know how to use it.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Posted by Matt McKinney on 10-02-2012 11:19 PM:

I have had my garmin for about 3 yrs, and there has never been anything go wrong with it. I have never installed any updates or anything.I have never had to call garmin , or send it in for repair. I also have never lost a dog. Anyone that is disputing that a Garmin is a good tool to have, is as stubborn as the day is long. Do you HAVE to have one? No, but it makes your life easier, and in some cases keeps your dog from getting killed

I used to ALWAYS tell my buddy he needed a Garmin. I dont know how many times we sat there waiting for his dog to "come back". He would always say they are too expensive, and I dont need one, blah blah blah. Well he would just leave the dogs in the woods,if he got sick of waiting for them and hope to find them the next day. One day 2 of them got picked up by animal control. He got over a 600 dollar fine, for not controling his dogs or whatever, and not having them licsensed. He was so stubborn about buying one. Well he has one now, and has never left his dog since. Only he had to pay about 1200 for it, cause he was too stubborn to buy one before he got the fines. Had he bought a garmin when i told him he should get one, he wouldnt have felt the need to leave his dogs in the woods, which led to the fine. Some times people that are cheap skates end up paying more in the log run.

To the man that said coon hunters used to be tough, now they are fat and all smiles...Being fat aint from Garmins, thats from Mcdonalds and Burger King.

Posted by David Webb on 10-02-2012 11:24 PM:

New

garminguru,
I have 4 new 220's with DC 40 combo & I have 3 new Dc 30 collars never been out of box, take your pick
Garmin says they work fine or we will let a independant check them out
Dogs do not hang in trees or lay in the ditch unless they get run over,
If you ever lose a dog in a cave like I did you will know the Garmin was useless & the telemetry signal found him

All;
I use a Garmin every night & would not turn a dog loose without one, but a telemetry collar will be on my dog too & a good Tri-Tronics also
I do have the new Alpha & I am not sure the training/gps combo is the desired effect, but I am sure not gonna throw rocks at it yet

I just don't understand why all the knockdown & negative slander over telemetry still goes on
If you love Garmin GPS use it, If you love beep-beep, use it,
if you love both, like me, use it
Negative comments need to be kept to yourself, or here's a quarter
David

__________________
NT CH "PR" Turkey Creek Playboy
Dual Grand Ridgeway's Deep Creek Zena
Dual Grand Laurel Fork Mongo
Grand Night Tight as a Cord

Posted by jodaviess1 on 10-02-2012 11:42 PM:

RELIABLE AS IT GETS/JOHNSON TELEMETRY

FOR SALE/THE BASE HAS A NEW POWER PAC INSTALLED BY JOHNSON TELEMETRY, NEW YAGI ANTENNA-COAX. 2 PRACTICALLY NEW 16,000 HOUR JOHNSON COLLARS WITH MAYBE 20 HOURS ON THEM. I HAVE 2 COLLARS THAT NEED SENT INTO JOHNSON FOR NEW BATTERIES THAT I WILL THROW IN. I HAVE THE RECIEPTS FOR THE STUFF I HAVE STATED ABOVE. THIS WILL BE A TROUBLE FREE FIND UM IN THE HILLS AND VALLEYS UNIT. <v>

__________________
Blue Dog 1

Posted by David Webb on 10-02-2012 11:59 PM:

GPS

guru,
HaHa,
I knew you would never take me up on it
The fact remains we use these on dogs & they, GPS & Telemetry, will never perform 100% where I live & hunt.
As for range, me or any hunting buddies here in WNC can never get over 3/4 to a mile consistantly with a Garmin here, & some places with heavy foliage or laurel thickets losing signal is common more frequently.
But, I still use it every night because I like it
But guess what, that old beep-beep will get 3 miles + just about every time
David

__________________
NT CH "PR" Turkey Creek Playboy
Dual Grand Ridgeway's Deep Creek Zena
Dual Grand Laurel Fork Mongo
Grand Night Tight as a Cord

Posted by garminguru on 10-03-2012 12:00 AM:

Re: New

quote:
Originally posted by David Webb
garminguru,
I have 4 new 220's with DC 40 combo & I have 3 new Dc 30 collars never been out of box, take your pick
Garmin says they work fine or we will let a independant check them out
Dogs do not hang in trees or lay in the ditch unless they get run over,
If you ever lose a dog in a cave like I did you will know the Garmin was useless & the telemetry signal found him

All;
I use a Garmin every night & would not turn a dog loose without one, but a telemetry collar will be on my dog too & a good Tri-Tronics also
I do have the new Alpha & I am not sure the training/gps combo is the desired effect, but I am sure not gonna throw rocks at it yet

I just don't understand why all the knockdown & negative slander over telemetry still goes on
If you love Garmin GPS use it, If you love beep-beep, use it,
if you love both, like me, use it
Negative comments need to be kept to yourself, or here's a quarter
David

Why would I have to use yours? Why can't I use mine?
So I was right!
Nowhere did I say I could find a collar that was being used outside of the parameters of how it was designed to operate!
That brings up an interesting point and one I never considered. If your dog had GPS lock before going in the cave, and the collar was reporting that position, when the dog went into the cave and lost its GPS lock would it not still report that position outside the cave until the collar died or obtained new satellite data? It should, then it would only be a matter of getting in a position to pick the signal up from the collar on the Astro. It might be reporting the wrong position since the dog had went in the cave and the status page would show no GPS lock but anyone would realize their dog was in the cave.
I am going to test that and if that works (which I think it will) I bet I could have still found your dog!
Do you know the answer to this David because I do not know. I would hope by its design that it would report its last known position but loosing GPS lock has only happened to me a couple of times and only for brief periods. I know if you power the collar off and turn it on it will not report its last known position but what if it looses GPS lock but never powers off???

Posted by garminguru on 10-03-2012 12:06 AM:

Re: GPS

quote:
Originally posted by David Webb
guru,
HaHa,
I knew you would never take me up on it
The fact remains we use these on dogs & they, GPS & Telemetry, will never perform 100% where I live & hunt.
As for range, me or any hunting buddies here in WNC can never get over 3/4 to a mile consistantly with a Garmin here, & some places with heavy foliage or laurel thickets losing signal is common more frequently.
But, I still use it every night because I like it
But guess what, that old beep-beep will get 3 miles + just about every time
David

And I knew you were going to try and cheat by using the Garmin outside of its design parameters.
Now, do you want to take me up on my challenge?

Posted by BB&LKennels on 10-03-2012 12:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by shawnfitzgerald
Mr that has to be the stupidest post I have ever seen. Why talk about someone's dog like that I'm sure you never hunted with mojo he's not that way sure he's thrown some pups like that what stud dog that's been bred much has not.. No dog is perfect nor tracking system or person. Respect yourself a little bit when you run down a dog or man like that it makes you out to be the bad person. I'm sure you don't care what people think of you but you should

WELL MR I DIDN'T DOWN ANYONE'S DOG ...... I JUST SAID THAT THE MOJO DOG'S THAT I HAVE HUNTED WITH BABBLE ALL THE TIME......... AND I HAVE HUNTED WITH QUITE A FEW,YOU WILL PLAY HELL GETTING FIRST STRIKE ON THEM........THE THING IS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THE TRUTH,TELL THE TRUTH AND IT WILL SET YOU FREE.......MAYBE YOU LIKE MOJO DOG'S TO EACH HIS OWN,I DON'T SO I GUESS THAT MAKE'S ME A BAD PERSON..I KNOW THERE IS NO PERFECT DOG OR PERSON...THERE WAS ONLY ONE PERFECT PERSON AND HE GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US..... YES I CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT ME ,PEOPLE WHO KNOW ME WILL TELL YOU I AM A STRAIGHT SHOOTER ...

Posted by David Webb on 10-03-2012 12:54 AM:

guru

The design parameters referral is just mumbo jumbo to most users
Every hunter that has one, bought it to find their dog or at least to watch that track on the map screen

The new Alpha & TT10 collars are much better with collar lock or last signal than the previous units for my use, much better reception & ease of loading sattlelite
The only time I've locked is when a dog was shown treed in the middle of a 4 lane road, but he was about 15ft off when I got there
I will knock some wood, but I have not lost signal where it was pretty common before.
I have not had the compass screen lock yet
I'm still not ready to throw my dog in that cave though

__________________
NT CH "PR" Turkey Creek Playboy
Dual Grand Ridgeway's Deep Creek Zena
Dual Grand Laurel Fork Mongo
Grand Night Tight as a Cord

Posted by shawnfitzgerald on 10-03-2012 01:01 AM:

Mojo is a vry nice dog I have hunted with a few that we're tuff some that weren't fact of the matter is the comment you made like it or not you were running the dog down also like you I'm a straight shooter

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