UKC Forums - What Was/is The Most Over-rated Stud?

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-- What Was/is The Most Over-rated Stud? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=89680)

Posted by John Vaught on 04-05-2006 10:22 PM:

Re: john.... the ladder part

quote:
Originally posted by ERIC W MUELLER
of you're arguement can be said about "ANY" big time dog at stud. i'll say it again "PERCENTAGES" don't lie.

PERCENTAGES HAVE LIED WILL LIE AND CONTINUE TO LIE ABOUT A STUD DOG

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Posted by joe wilson on 04-06-2006 12:22 AM:

if you are saying they dont reprduce there likeness

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bkdogg
[B]Just the other week on on PBR they were talking to the Breeders were the PBR bucking bulls come from. They were the ones talking about the 80% performance themselves.

what about bulldaishes a couple son of his have been banned for being to mean just like him.

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Posted by joe wilson on 04-06-2006 12:25 AM:

hog

quote:
Originally posted by texhog
You guys that put all your "stock" in how many Nite Ch and Gr Nites a dog throws are basing your decision on some pretty sorry dogs. I would Honestly say that 50 to 75 % of all Nite Champions are not worth the feed they eat. From what I have seen the Majority of Grands are pretty good dogs but not Nite Ch's. If you could find out how much Repeat business a stud dog gets, then you will know something.

in the coondog world that is what percentages are based on nt ch and grands if you going to advertise a stud dog.

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Posted by mike higginboth on 04-06-2006 01:10 AM:

Mr wilson, in the coon dog comp. world, maybe but i don't know about as a whole.

Posted by K. Singletary on 04-06-2006 02:02 PM:

Re: ALL ARE OVER RATED

quote:
Originally posted by John Vaught
Because they are run at stud to produce an income for the ones that own them. Its no doubt these folks that have these top notch stud dogs are in it for the money and do well with a stud service business. The reproducing percentages are only know through the nite hunts and does not reflect any of the dog that were never put in a hunt that just could be better than the ones that earned a title and the way these titles are earned also would have to put some doubt in your mind if in fact that were won honest. So I think they all are over rated and advertized as they need be to make money

I'm sure the Rat Attacks of the world make money for their owners, but most advertised studs don't make any money.

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Posted by coon dawg on 04-06-2006 02:09 PM:

Re: Re: ALL ARE OVER RATED

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
I'm sure the Rat Attacks of the world make money for their owners, but most advertised studs don't make any money.

......what Ken said............when you figure the cost of granding a dog out, unless you do it at itty bitty local hunts........it takes a lot of breedings just to get your entry/gas/motel money back.....................Paul Sheffield told me the years he won Purina coonhound of the year with Hardwood Dan..........when ya considered the above, plus miles on his truck........it cost a TON to win..........

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Posted by joe wilson on 04-07-2006 04:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mike higginboth
Mr wilson, in the coon dog comp. world, maybe but i don't know about as a whole.

true but this a competition board we are all on ...

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Posted by GOBRedbones on 04-07-2006 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bkdogg
All studs unless your talking about the looks of the dogs it's throwing. The race horse people know it the cattle people know it, but the dog people won't admit it. 80% of the performance comes from the dam's side. Even PBR is breeding the cows for the bucking bulls not the best bucking bulls for more bucking bulls.

Well put. The PBR is very strong on the opinion that a good bucker comes mainly from the cow. Just because a Bull is a good bucker or even a World Champ like Lil Yellow Jaket, it does not mean he will throw that in his calves. Most bull breeders want a cow from a proven line to throw a good calf. And I think the same should go for dog breeders no matter the color or breed of the hound.

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Posted by mike higginboth on 04-07-2006 05:53 PM:

joe, OK. GOB, you got to have BOTH sides. its 50/50

Posted by claytonwalkers on 06-10-2009 01:43 PM:

Mr. bojangles

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Posted by ronald schultz on 06-10-2009 03:14 PM:

coonhunters , i'm proud of you!!! a post like this lasting this long

with pretty good composure!!!!! discussing an impossible topic to come up with a true conclusion!!!!! if i could know everything i am sure that i would know that the best coonhound stud dogs were never studded publicly or maybe even at all!!!!!!!

Posted by HistoryNutt on 06-10-2009 03:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
limo! good call matt. how 'bout log chain leroy? remember that slobber slinging slobber slinger?

DUAL GRAND CHAMPION ODYSSEY'S E-LIM-N-ATOR

GRAND NITE CHAMPION BALL'S LOG CHAIN LEROY

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Posted by coon dawg on 06-10-2009 03:26 PM:

Re: Hardwood Dan

quote:
Originally posted by Bigtime
A dog that was heavily promoted and advertised 15 years ago and reproduced a good number of offspring was a hound known as Gr. Nite Ch. Hardwood Dan. Ole Dan was one of the best when it came to treeing coon, so good good he won the Purina Award twice with stiff competition when it was a cut throat game. Dan never reproduced his likeness.

........................agree 100%..........judged him twice............tremendous hound......................that couldn't reproduce................

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Posted by David Lee on 06-10-2009 04:22 PM:

1996 UKC WINTER CLASSIC NITE HUNT CHAMPION
GRNITECH "PR" WILSON'S HARDWOOD ANN...........900+..............SIRE : HARDWOOD DAN

Posted by coon dawg on 06-10-2009 05:47 PM:

............

quote:
Originally posted by David Lee
1996 UKC WINTER CLASSIC NITE HUNT CHAMPION
GRNITECH "PR" WILSON'S HARDWOOD ANN...........900+..............SIRE : HARDWOOD DAN

................look at the percentages...............a few hounds out of hundreds doesn't mean a whole lot..............jmo.....anybody on here have a PAD with Dan it in, so we can see how many pups he sired, and how many of those made night champion????????......................then, look at most of the stud dogs advertised today, and see how many have him in their pedigree..............Loved Dan and Paul Sheffield............but the dog didn't reproduce........

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Posted by Crazy4LazyDaisy on 06-10-2009 08:18 PM:

well........

Last P.A.D. I saw on HARDWOOD DAN had him at 5% with over 900 pups.....It was dated so he could have gone either way since....6.19% is 10th on TW reproducers list in june bloodlines.....

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Posted by Kyle B on 06-10-2009 10:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Brabender
Don't mean to start anything I know this is just opionions but how many other stud dogs out there have produced 2 world champions? I am sure they are out there but I am just drawing a blank right know.

yeah i want to say one thing the man that said nailor was over rated has no sense whatsoever. Nailor has been the best stud i think that has ever lived. ill say this, just as matt did, two world champions, and countless grnites, yeah hes really overated!!! I just about would breed to anything of jess's because even though hes got the money, bout anything he drags around is a dang coondog!!!

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Posted by Kyle B on 06-10-2009 10:15 PM:

i dont mean to start anything but if you say lipper and nailor are overated because they sired too many pups, look at trackman, like you said if you breed and have like a 1000 pups a few of them aught to win. sorry fellers. but i know ive drug around lipper and nailor stock my whole life and had good luck. But i know of stud dogs that have no name are never looked at that are prob. better than the greatest. Bodock for example, he ought to breed 20 females a day!!! Look at what hes reperducing!!!

Posted by PRITCHARD on 06-11-2009 01:38 AM:

Stud dog...

I would have to say Yadkin River Cruise is over rated.Look who his owned him.It seems that everything Abbott had was a grandnight it didn't matter what it was even if it was a lab.

And the same that goes for Ole South Stylish Rebel. Abbott owned himed also.And everybody and there brother bred to him to.
JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Christy on 06-11-2009 02:02 PM:

Re: well........

quote:
Originally posted by Crazy4LazyDaisy
Last P.A.D. I saw on HARDWOOD DAN had him at 5% with over 900 pups.....It was dated so he could have gone either way since....6.19% is 10th on TW reproducers list in june bloodlines.....

REALLY?

BEST I CAN FIGURE, SID HAS 108 PUPS. RIGHT NOW HAS 2 GRNTCH 4 NTCHS. ONE THAT NEEDS 4TH OR BETTER. IF HE GETS THAT ONE MORE NTCH AND SID WILL BE AT 6.48%

I DONT KNOW WHO I THINK IS THE MOST OVERRATED. LET ME THINK ON IT A BIT.

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Posted by mucket on 06-11-2009 02:48 PM:

I hunt a double nailor bred Xjr dog and he is a coon dog /stud dog but he gets hunted alot. I would like to draw some of these big name stud dogs when i go to autumn oaks this year(my first)but from what i hear most stud dog owners dont hunt them very often at all and i can understand that But i'm not in it for the money so i will be hunting X. and no i'm not rich ,i'm broke but i can count the nights i've stayed home this year on my fingers 7 or 8 i think.sorry to bother you guys but I also like nailor blood.and refuse to say any ones dog is overrated till i've hunted with him.

thank you'
eric

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Posted by jay brademeyer on 06-11-2009 03:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
from what i have read on this thread i doubt if their are many on hear that are qualified to make a judgment call on any dogs mentioned. i will guarantee you that they don't all turn out, and yes their are dominant producing indaviduals. (male and female)
i think your time would be better spent studying and listening to people who acctually do know somthing ,than to come on here and bad mouth sombody and their dogs, and pointing out what little you know. jmo

i can't believe the moderators have left this up. the stud dogs that have been bashed on here have generated a tremendouse amount of money for ukc in pup reg., advertising , and night hunt entries.
... i would like to see one of the brain dockters on here, put the time and effort it take to produce something for the public and have it scrutinised. if a large portion of you fellas new a 1/4 of what you think you know you might worth listening to.
... some dogs reproduce and some don't we know who is and who didn't. why get off on taking the oprotunity to sling mud and if you can't come up with truth ,mabe make junk up. have a good day.

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Posted by Skyward on 06-11-2009 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
i can't believe the moderators have left this up. the stud dogs that have been bashed on here have generated a tremendouse amount of money for ukc in pup reg., advertising , and night hunt entries.
... i would like to see one of the brain dockters on here, put the time and effort it take to produce something for the public and have it scrutinised. if a large portion of you fellas new a 1/4 of what you think you know you might worth listening to.
... some dogs reproduce and some don't we know who is and who didn't. why get off on taking the oprotunity to sling mud and if you can't come up with truth ,mabe make junk up. have a good day.

Well jay, like you said..."put the time and effort it take to produce something for the public".....if thats why you are producing it, then I would say that very same crowd is entitled to scrutinize it. If they aren't, then who gave you the right to shove something in their face and think you are above being scrutinized. Ain't nobody your puppet. Now you want to sling junk at the moderators for allowing folks to speak thier minds/opinions. Maybe its you who needs deleted. I guess if a man puts so much time and effort into something.....he may be slow in realizing that it really ain't chyt he created. There are two sides to that coin jay. Don't hate those who won't/can't see it your way.

Posted by Dhyer on 06-11-2009 05:43 PM:

Based on all the BS advertised and the number of dogs you see winning Elvis is my pick. Hunted with a bunch and don't remember one I liked.

Posted by Cody Carroll on 06-11-2009 09:12 PM:

Re: Stud dog...

quote:
Originally posted by PRITCHARD
I would have to say Yadkin River Cruise is over rated.Look who his owned him.It seems that everything Abbott had was a grandnight it didn't matter what it was even if it was a lab.

And the same that goes for Ole South Stylish Rebel. Abbott owned himed also.And everybody and there brother bred to him to.
JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

i have a grand pup to cruise. which makes her a great grand pup to nailor. she is also a great grand pup to ole souths stylish rebel and wagers stylish lipper. those are 4 dogs that people have said are over rated. judging by her, those dogs arent over rated in my opinion

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