UKC Forums - Rule ?

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-- Rule ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=489511)

Posted by tuck@tree on 03-15-2012 01:59 PM:

Rip.......what does Allen the almighty say about a dog that goes back on trail and comes back to they tree pretty quickly??? Still ok??? I will admit the little Allen bit is not in my rulebook...nor is it on the back of my scorecard.

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-15-2012 02:16 PM:

Your supposed to print it out off here or carry every advisor ever written. I think lol. Bought like the scratching of ntch champ dogs cause possum tracks are seen going into a den in the snow. Craziest thing I had ever heard. Till I learned you can un-minus one after you already minused it. Id have to carry it around in printed form cause lots of folks ain't gonna believe it

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Posted by Rip on 03-15-2012 02:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tuck@tree
Rip.......what does Allen the almighty say about a dog that goes back on trail and comes back to they tree pretty quickly??? Still ok??? I will admit the little Allen bit is not in my rulebook...nor is it on the back of my scorecard.

Yes, it is in your rulebook. It's the part that says the Coonhound Advisor is the official interpretation of the rules for UKC and they are to be followed just like the rulebook and scorecard.

It isn't Allen's ruling. It has been that way for many years. Allen just reiterated it the other day on a different thread. It's in the Advisor.

The reason it is that way is because as long as the dog was going from tree to tree then it didn't leave anything. It was scored as one tree so it's no different than if it just went around to the other side of a tree. Surely you don't try and minus a dog for going to the other side of the tree? It's the same concept. It's all one tree so the dog is free to tree on either one.

If it goes back on trail then it's minused, but that can't happen if it is going between two trees that are one because technically he is still at the tree.

Just because a dog puts its head down doesn't mean it's "on trail" and that's why UKC said that a dog is NOT automatically minused for putting it's head down/nose to the ground.

If you see the dog go back on trail, and we all should be able to tell that, then my all means minus it. BUT if it comes to greet it's handler and just puts its head down going back to the tree you and me both know that isn't back on trail and that dog shouldn't be minused.

But again, on the "back on trail" thing that's something you have to be there to judge. Sometimes the dog that puts it's nose down will be minused, and sometimes it won't depending on whether or not it went back on trail.

You can't pull the "back on trail" when going between two trunks scored as one though LOL.

And I realize these message boards are difficult to tell someones tone etc. so I mean no ill will or hard feelings.

I myself have had to back up and regroup because I was scoring things wrong per UKC. Specifically the "recasting" option because I used to think a dog had to be struck in since that was the way it was written, and I didn't think that coming in after the judge on a possum would save a NTCh dog. When I saw UKC's rulings I had to change the way I scored those things even though I didn't agree with them.

It's just a learning tool for me as well so don't take offense at what I say even if it comes across that way cause it ain't meant that way

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Posted by smokin-1-mo on 03-15-2012 06:21 PM:

TWO TREES DOG RUNNING BACK AND FORTH ,ONE COON HE BETTER BE ON THE RIGHT TREE WHEN WE GET THERE....I VOTE TO MINUS IT THAT COON DIDNT GO UP BOTH TREES AND IF HE TRAILED IT IN THERE HE DIDNT TREE A LAY UP.....WHY DOES EVERYONE LOOK FOR OUT INSTEAD OF TAKING THE MEDICINE....

Posted by on 03-15-2012 07:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
TWO TREES DOG RUNNING BACK AND FORTH ,ONE COON HE BETTER BE ON THE RIGHT TREE WHEN WE GET THERE....I VOTE TO MINUS IT THAT COON DIDNT GO UP BOTH TREES AND IF HE TRAILED IT IN THERE HE DIDNT TREE A LAY UP.....WHY DOES EVERYONE LOOK FOR OUT INSTEAD OF TAKING THE MEDICINE....

Chuck you are making the mistake of thinking you are coonhunting when your comphunting.

Posted by tuck@tree on 03-15-2012 08:17 PM:

I will not break a rule on purpose...but I sure don't like this one!!! One of my close friends is a master of hounds and has been for years. He hasn't seen that rule either or he did and forgot. Lol id like to forget it too.

Posted by JiM on 03-15-2012 08:59 PM:

Tuck, it isn't a rule, it is a RULE INTERPRETATION!
It is UKC saying that when a dog trees where two trees touch, the two trees can be scored as one tree, and if they are one tree at the top, then they are one tree at the bottom in which case if the dog is running back and forth between the two trees that were counted as one, the dog is really only covering one tree even though it looks like two trees. Understand????

God forbid we should just minus the chiteater for being a loose treedog, that might cause some 12 year old to forever forsake the unfairly harsh world of competition coonhunting. And we sure can't have that.

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Posted by copperheadcreek on 03-16-2012 02:34 AM:

""""I keep saying I know the rules because I do! O have the Ukc and Pkc and and rules downloaded on my phone and I read them in my spare time. I am very serious about it! I have read them fourty eleven times! Occasionally there are situations where a common sense judgement must be made. Two trees that mingle will be scored as one I know. This keeps dogs protected from being MINUSED on a crossed out coon and I love the rule. It also keeps two dogs from being scored first tree on one coon. The rules also say of a dog leaves tree once declared treed he os minused, now it doesn't matter if he comes back to the same tree or another trunk of the same tree fifteen or sixty feet away " as was the tree in the previous discussion". If a dog comes off tree....puts his nose to the ground....he is on trail!!! All rules are written to be applied using common sense decision making to reward the dog that strikes....trails...and trees a raccoon....and that's how I judge and I have never had any complaints. I have circled trees for dogs that were gut slick because of the microscopic chance that a tiny coon could be hiding in a big fork,and caused my accurate dog who wasn't there to lose the cast. If you knew me you would know im not itching.g to minus. But I will be barred before I will go along with plussing a dog treed when he is on trail checking other trees. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT! "A quote from forrest gump" I love him!!! GOOD NITE SIR:-)"""

did you know that in the advisor it states a dog can come off the tree 20 to 40 YARDS to meet the handler, and as long as it goes back to the tree and starts treeing again that it CAN NOT be minused for leaving the tree?????

mr tuck@tree, i have a question, if you have the rules on your phone , then why dont you put the advisor on your phone also. that way you can have all 3 rule devices on your phone and if a question arises in the woods you can let everyone read the rules from your phone.
but you need to let them look at the rules after the hunt or during time out because now you will get scratched for using your phone for anything other than a paper weight on the dashboard of your truck.... mike

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Posted by tuck@tree on 03-16-2012 03:06 AM:

Yes I know a dog can meet the handled and go back, I have never been MINUSED or MINUSED anyone else for this. As I clearly stated earlier in this post I was talking about a dog leaving tree...putting his nose on the ground....trailing and checking other trees or the trunk of another tree that connects with the first tree. I dont have the advisor on my phone because I didn't think it was necessary...the rules are pretty clear to me,or at least I thought they were. The advisors interpretations of what is leaving the tree as previously discussed is pathetic in my opinion!!!!! A dog that is to be crowned champion should trail to the END of a track and show that tree without moving!!!!..."other that meeting handler and returning quickly"!!!! But if the advisor is to be followed as a rulebook I soon will have it downloaded you can be sure. I would never break rule intentionaly.

Posted by JSTARR on 03-19-2012 04:28 PM:

Re: Rule ?

quote:
Originally posted by Joey THIS POST GOT WAY OFF TOPIC WITH NO ANSWER ,,

This was relayed to me and they didn’t know the answer. I told him what I thought but apparently a UKC field rep that was the MOH ruled it another way.

The cast went into a tree that three dogs were declared treed on. When they got there one dog was on a tree and 15 to 20 feet from the tree the other two were caught in a hog trap. How would you score the two in the trap? It had no bearing on the outcome of the cast.

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