UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=)
-- Dear Judge . . . (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=439879)

Dear Judge...

Please remember that in order see a dog's structure they must actually stand still a minute and in order to see a dog's movement they must actually gate. Jumping, running, lunging, crouching and everything in between does not count as movement unless it is written in the breed standard....

Thank you

__________________
TaraH@Mudipawz

Dear Judges

Please study the breed standards before you take on a judging assigment! 1. Just because a dog and it's owner is so AKC showie and acting so fancy dose not mean that is the better dog for the breed standard in the ring. I seen very supper nice dogs past up just because one owner is so AKC
2. As so many have all ready said here judge the dogs not the owners! just because you know them or as I have been seeing because you seen them win at Premier and then go and tell others that O so and so is here with his dog from Premier. There is alot of dogs that made the Top 10's cut but were not able to go. and all you ended up doing is makeing a fool of yourself.
3. If you have persay 2 male dogs in say Champion or Grand and one looking smaller ask age if you have to because most of the time the smaller one is the same age as the other, and that will tell you the smaller one is too small for a male.
4.DO NOT! be visiting with owners before you have judge his or her breed, I'm seeing way TOO much of this comeing from owners that feel they have to coach and drill a judge before judging to get a win and then that person is getting put up, remember everyone is seeing and hearing the both of you talking and you going over his or her dog long before you ever step in the ring. Again you just made a bad name for yourself in the eye of all around you. At least be respectful all everyone that paid to show under you to give them a fair judgment, and be man or women enought to tell these person NO I DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR DOG OR SEE YOUR DOG AS I HAVE NOT JUDGE THAT BREED YET AND WALK AWAY! We're all watching .
5.Stop with the lame reasons for way you gave it to the same person that all has seen you talking with and going over his dog earler we all know why you did it, have guts enough to say it. I gave it to him because he told me earler his dog is the best one in the show.
6. watch your phone calls to wife or husbands as I said you are on watch, over hearing you call and tell your other half " Hay so and so and his dog that on at permier is here " Get the picture?
Rember ask yourself would I like it if this was done to me?

__________________
Nina, Wildwinn's Dobies, home to AKC/UKCGR/Inter/National CH. Ruthenia's Temptation Is Mine. AKC major pted/UKC GR/INternational CH. Chehelam's American Eagle, all dobermans are health tested,

Sorry should of read it before posting left out some letters, But this has been getting so out of hand that all of us have had enough. But I think you can still read it and know what I'm talking about.

__________________
Nina, Wildwinn's Dobies, home to AKC/UKCGR/Inter/National CH. Ruthenia's Temptation Is Mine. AKC major pted/UKC GR/INternational CH. Chehelam's American Eagle, all dobermans are health tested,

Nina,

number 3 is not always accurate. Take my breed, the American Bulldog, are you telling me that if someone walks in with a 125 pound plus ABD, and my male is at 95 pounds, that my male is too small for a male?? I think not, if anything the other dog is TOO LARGE for the breed.

__________________
Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future.
John F. Kennedy

Fulkvar Kennels American Bulldogs
www.FulkvarKennels.com

No JoJo I'm am not. and if you look at what breed I have then you will understand the statememt I made. True this would not a ply to all , But it dose aply to most, and here again it is the Judges place to study each and every breed he or she is going to Judge that weekend before they leave for a show. How many times have you been in the ring and even for your breed a very bulky over done dog was put up over a breed standard type and you thought Omy what is that judge looking at? Or maybe one that is too small even for your breed? The point here is we all pay hard earned money to show and the judges should have respect for themself but all so for us. At least start learning all of the breed standards better than they do, Do you not agree? But my statement dose point mostly to my breed as many others on here is posting about theirs.

__________________
Nina, Wildwinn's Dobies, home to AKC/UKCGR/Inter/National CH. Ruthenia's Temptation Is Mine. AKC major pted/UKC GR/INternational CH. Chehelam's American Eagle, all dobermans are health tested,

Sorry, I didn't look at your sig. I have thought the things you stated many times, but I accept the judges opinion, and they may have different things they want to see in a dog than I do, I have paid for and received their opinion, which is what happens when you enter a show. I personally weigh all things out, I don't get, nor will I breed dogs based strictly on Conf. I want a total dog, and I am willing to give up a spot on top ten for a dog that will work in other venues. So I guess I mostly chalk it up to the fact that if I was going only for the top ten win, I might win more in the ring. My dogs don't always look so pretty, they are often stained from working, and some have battle wounds from working, which though it shouldn't it often lessens our chances of winning in the ring over "plump" bright white couch potatoes, but at the end of the day, me and my dogs put it out there, had fun, and they are winners to me.

BTW: all your other points where great!


Sorry for being long winded, I know that much of this response was not implied in your post, but I couldn't think of any other way to express my thought and not seem a bit harsh.

__________________
Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future.
John F. Kennedy

Fulkvar Kennels American Bulldogs
www.FulkvarKennels.com

Look it take a lot of comen sence no matter what you do in life, But I do feel that the judges do need to not only know all of our breed standards but all so know and understand what that dog is breed for, I do feel when in dought ask, for instance if your not sure if one is older or lets say you have two that are both one year old and one is smaller then no this would not aply because they are not full growen yet , that would only mean that like in my breed we have some lines that grow slower than another use comen sence here, But if you have both that is 3 years old and one is the size of a female then that just would not be good in my breed. Would you like for your male to look like a female? No none of us would,! I like it when a judge ask the age of my dogs, at least he or she is makeing sure, That statement would only aply to adult dog not to youngester that is still growing,

__________________
Nina, Wildwinn's Dobies, home to AKC/UKCGR/Inter/National CH. Ruthenia's Temptation Is Mine. AKC major pted/UKC GR/INternational CH. Chehelam's American Eagle, all dobermans are health tested,

JoJo I have a working breed too and yes mine gets marks and scars, they after all is a working breed, I feel that just because I walk in there with my working dog that has been breed to do just what he or she is supose to do they should not be knocked down for dog that has never seen a days work in their life. But here again just because you have a working breed dose not mean you have to go out an work that dog in the fields, the Judges has to use comen sence.

__________________
Nina, Wildwinn's Dobies, home to AKC/UKCGR/Inter/National CH. Ruthenia's Temptation Is Mine. AKC major pted/UKC GR/INternational CH. Chehelam's American Eagle, all dobermans are health tested,

Dear Judge

Please remember that collies come in two varieties, rough and smooth. They are the same dog just two lengths of coat. Please don't overlook a smooth just because it doesn't look like Lassie.

A great many smooth collie breeders are finding it hard to compete with the roughs because it seems that the roughs are favored because "everyone knows a collie looks like Lassie".

Don't Overlook ...

Dont overlook dogs just based on "first impression" when entering the ring....

No matter what the breed, each dog deserves their individual exam, in the same manner as all other entries in their breed. Don't spent 1 minute on one dogs individual exam and not even 15 seconds on anothers.... Maybe you spent longer on the one you didnt like "first impression" and know you like the 15second dog - but to handlers in the ring and those watching, it looks VERY unprofessional.

Ive seen this not only in my breed, but many others as well. Take time on the individual exams. Its ok to go back and compare certain dogs in the line up, for the individual exam, everyone paid their entry and should get an equal chance -- as long as the individual dog is not aggressive, in which case, it should probably be excused.

Dear judge,

Please don't post on a breeder's Facebook photo how much you love their dog, how perfect that dog is, and so on and so on. It makes me never want to show under you if that dog might be there, because... why bother? How can I expect you to fully weigh the assets of all the dogs in the ring when I know you're such close friends with that exhibitor and you've publicly stated that you think their dog is perfect? Every dog has faults! Even if the dog IS perfect, I don't think it's right to put your admiration out there on Facebook for everyone to see... It seems unprofessional.

Re: Dear Judge

quote:

---

Originally posted by dunecollies
Please remember that collies come in two varieties, rough and smooth. They are the same dog just two lengths of coat. Please don't overlook a smooth just because it doesn't look like Lassie.

A great many smooth collie breeders are finding it hard to compete with the roughs because it seems that the roughs are favored because "everyone knows a collie looks like Lassie".

---

__________________
Mary Jo Hearn
Triview Collies

"Preston" UKC/Intl/Nat CH Corjalin's The Warhawk PT, CTL1-H, CTL1-F, CTL1-R, CTL2-H, CTL2-F, CGC, TT, HIC

"Falcon" UKC CH Corjalin Wyldrose's Dream Weaver HIC

“Cash” VCH, AKC/UKC/IABCA Int’l & Nat CH, UAGI, UCD (2/3 UCDX) Corjalin’s Excelsior HT, Am/Can CD, RE, NA, NAP, NAJ, OJP, HIC, TT, CGC, BPDX, Can ptd, CCA-VA (4/9/00- 7/11/11)

“Luke” VCH, UAGII, UCDX Corjalin Triview’s Magician HT, CDX, RA, Can CD, OA, OAP, NAJ, OJP, AGN, HIC, TT, CGC, BPD, FFX-AP (5/19/99 - 11/18/10)

I would like to see the breed standard read prior to the class entering the ring. I would like to see, as others said, dogs, not people judged. I don't like seeing a judge show another judges dog in a class and winning. Or competetors hugging the judges before or after the class.

__________________
"Lets close the circle folks, these dogs aren't for everybody."

From a judge, To everyone who suggests that we learn ALL the standards. It really is tricky to memorize every breed standard. We do study them. We try to remember as much as possible. We even carry the standards into the ring with us so if we do have a question we can look it up. As for studying each standard right before each breed comes in the ring. We would be there till the wee early morning hours finishing our assignments. That would not be feasable either. Judges really do study your standard. Very few judge by the seat of their pants. Be patient with us. We didnt breed your breed. We didnt memorize your standard down to the exact words. We are human. If you think that we do not understand your standard or didnt get the key points. Talk to us. After the show. Most are willing and eager to learn about your breed. But do remember that your interpretation of the standard may not be the same as other people. The standard is a guideline. An ideal. There isnt any dog out there that is exactly like their standard.

Dear Exhibitors don't get upset with the judge when they stop a ring to refer to your breed standard-sometimes dogs that are being judged have something that we are not 100% sure is incorrect or correct, so to give your dog our full fairness, we should always go to the standard--don't get upset when we reference your standard, it is a written guideline for your breed. There is no way that anyone who judges will ever know ever standard by heart.

dear judge

Clearly it is not reasonable to believe that every judge can be totally knowledgeable about every breed he/she sees in the ring. In several of the larger AKC shows that I have attended in the last 7 months, several of the Aussie breeders have held morning seminars for judges interested in learning more about our breed, complete with Aussies to demonstrate points about conformation, color and movement. Even though this seminar took place before any judging, I believe that the integrity of judges wishing to learn more about the breed precludes them from giving preference to a dog that they might have seen during this seminar. I believe that our responsibility as exhibitors includes helping to educate interested judges in the standard for our breed.

__________________
Marcy

I don't mind when a judge stops the class to refer to the breed standard. I have a problem with the judge that stops the class and asks the steward to get the standard and then places the class without looking at the standard he/ she asked for!!! What is the point of stopping the class...?

__________________
Red River Kennel, home of Champion Aussies.
GrCh. SWF Merry Madhatter
Ch. Broadway's Uptown Girl
Katie and Breanna Baxter, Top Ten Jr. Handlers

quote:

---

Originally posted by daisymom2
I don't mind when a judge stops the class to refer to the breed standard. I have a problem with the judge that stops the class and asks the steward to get the standard and then places the class without looking at the standard he/ she asked for!!! What is the point of stopping the class...?

---

__________________
David Arthur
Aircastle Standard Poodles
http://aircastlekennels.com

Dear Judge:

In the UKC Standard for Australian Shepherds there is only ONE Eliminating Fault:

"Any Australian Shepherd female over six months of age that measures under 17 inches or over 22 inches at the withers must be considered so faulty that it should not receive a placement, regardless of competition. Any Australian Shepherd male over six months of age that measures under 19 inches or over 24 inches at the withers must be considered so faulty that it should not receive a placement, regardless of competition."

Australian Shepherd breeders are very concerned about the Australian Shepherd bloodlines being used to produce the "Miniature Australian Shepherds"; "Toy Australian Shepherds" and "North American Shepherds".

Please do not reward an Australian Shepherd who should be disqualified due to being undersized.

Also, I don't mind if you want to check the standard or pull out the wicket...

__________________
Terri A Rein, Missouri
Australian Shepherds,
"Suzee" AKC CH, ASCA CH, INTL CH, UKC GRCH, U-MBIMBS, URO2, UAG1 Skyecove's Smoke and Mirrors DNA-VP, CGC, BN, RE, NJP, NAP, A-RA

"Shooter" AKC CH, ASCA CH, INTL CH, UKC GRCH, U-MBIMBS, U-MRBIMBS, U-BISS, UROC, URX, UCD, UAG1 Skyecove's Silent Countermeasure DNA-VP, CGC, THD, TDIA, TT, RAE, BN, CD, HT, OA, OAJ, NJP, NAP, A-RM, A-CD, A-JS-O, A-RS-N, 2012 UKC Premier Top Ten Best of Breed Winner

"Griffin" AKC GCH CH, ASCA CH, INTL CH, UKC GRCH, U-BISS, U-MBIMBS, U-MRBIMBS, URO2 Skyecove's Color Me Awesome DNA-VP, CGC, RA, A-RN

"Diesel" UKC GRCH, URO3, URX, UAGII Skyecove's Playin With Fire A-RA, A-RAX, A-JS-O, A-RS-O, RAE, NAJ, NA

"Nox" NatSR CH, IntSR CH, GRCH MBISS, MBIMBS, MRBIMBS, NBOB, UACH, CA, URO1 Bamboo Run's Dark Knight DNA-VP, CGC, CA, RE, NA, NAJ, A-RN, A-JS-N, A-RS-N

"Ruby" U-CH Kings Ferry DontTakUrLov2Town

I whole heartedly agree..... last weekend my dog was placed 3rd out of 3 because the judge felt she was "too long for his taste" I might point out that my dog is 1/2 inch longer than she is tall. That makes her reasonably square. However, he failed to notice the optical illusion my dog has because she does not have a full collar, the black saddle on her comes almost to her chest. However, the 2 judges the next day were able to see beyond the "illusion" and place her 1st in her class. Yes, I did take the time to measure my dog on the table at the show!!!! Also, my dog is relatively big boned and tall, well within the standard, so if she is tall, isn't she going to appear long to the naked eye......

__________________
Red River Kennel, home of Champion Aussies.
GrCh. SWF Merry Madhatter
Ch. Broadway's Uptown Girl
Katie and Breanna Baxter, Top Ten Jr. Handlers

More Involvement

How do we get more involvement in this thread? I am finding it fascinating to hear from exhibitors and breeder/judges as to what they think judges need to evaluate in their breed. I know there are many breeds that have something that should be checked that often is NOT being checked, and I for one, want to know what we are missing? For instance webbed feet on a Leonberger? Spanning on a Patterdale? White Collar length on an Australian Shepherd?

I for one, am much more apt to remmeber an important part about a breed when it is discussed in person or in a forum such as this than to read and "memorize" things in a standard. I had a classic example of a learning opportunity in Minnesota when the GSD club took the time to talk to me about the GSD, the WS, and the Piccard (Got that in Florida too) and I could tell by the passion they had for their breed that what they were teaching me was important. I remembered more. Of course this was done the day AFTER I judged and stayed to help the club. Well worth it! They did most of their education without ever bringing out a dog.

Also, may I please ask that you at least make an attempt to edit and check your posts. I know some individuals have assorted writing disabilities and I can be sympathetic with that. It is just very difficult to read posts with no punctuation, numerous spelling errors, and no capitalization. We all have problems but it is really hard to understand the meaning of posts that are just a bunch of words all strung together. I WANT to know what it is your saying!

Thanks for taking the time to share your breeds. I want more!!

__________________
Vintage Kennel - Defining the Total Dog
Promoting Responsible and Respectable Dog Ownership by Example
Home of:
Multi-BAIMBS Multi-BISV RBISV Int'l Ch UWPCH 'PR' Arkay's Vintage Dream On CGC TT 1/21/94-5/17/09

Multi BIMBS Multi RBIMBS Multi TD Int'l Ch Nat'l Ch Ehren Ch in Bronze URO3 FO UWPS UGWPC1 UGRACH UCD GRCH 'PR' Marauders Klickitat of Vintage TT CGC TDI
**UKC's first triple Grand Champion in events open to all breeds**

Multi BIMBS Multi RBIMS Multi TDMulti BAIMBS AKC Ch Int'l Ch RATM UGNJCH CAX URO3 UAG11 FO UCD UWPS UGWPC1 GRCH Alpine's Vintage Power Trip RN CD RATI RATM ROH CGCA TDI TT
***UKC's second triple Grand Champion in events open to all breeds.

AKC Ch Multi BIMBS RATN GRCH Alpine's Brownie Bottom Sundae RATI RATN

Multi BIMBS Multi RBIMBS Multi TD Multi 2 X Gateway RBTDIS RATO GNJCH USRCH URO1 UWPO UFRCH CAX UGWPCH GRCH 5Star VNTG History In The Makin CGC RATI RATO
*****UKC's 3rd triple Grand Champion in events open to all breeds******


Multi TD UWPV UWPCH GRCH WMK Little Oak's Kodyak@VNTG CGCA

Multi TD BIMBS CH UWP Alpine's Hearts On Fire CGCA

Multi BIMBS RBIMBS Multi TD UWPS UWPCHX GRCH 'PR' Miakodas Vintage MDNT Marauder DNA-P CGC TT

Multi TD UWPS GRCH UWPCHX 'PR' Miakodas AboveNBeyond of JoLib CGC TDI


Multi BIMBS Multi RBIMBS AKC Ch GRCH Alpine's CoCo Chanel

AKC Ch RATN CH Alpine's Jaimaca Me Crazy RN CGC RATN

Multi BIS BISS AKC GCh Multi TD Multi BIMBS Multi RBIMBS PT1 UNJ UWPV RATM UWPCH GRCH Alpine's Ring of Fire CGCA RATI RATM
**** Winner of the 2013 Top Ten Invitational Premier 2014*********
+++++++Winner of the 2014 Premier Best Total Dog In Show++++++++

MULTI BIS MULTI BISS AKC GCh RATN Alpine's Highwayman CGC RATI RATN

BIMBS AKC Ch UWP GRCH Hilltop's King Cobra CGC TT CD ROH

*Disclaimer: All AKC Ch are owned in AKC by or with Karen and Ed Thomason

dear judge

What about sable color, dudley nose, white splashes on body, white past mid-line of shoulder, undershot jaw, missing more than three teeth, excessively overshot jaw...all faults considered so serious that they might as be a dq in both AKC and ASCA? I agree that the height restrictions, especially as regarding females under 17 " are necessary, but I have not, in 20 years of breeding Aussies, seen any over-sized dogs. I'm sure there are some out there, but not very many make it to the Conf. ring. Limiting the dq to simply height restrictions surely is not a good thing for the breed. Seriously, as long as we maintain the integrity of the breed for what it is intended to do - work stock - any dogs under 17" should eliminate themselves. We have cattle, and I would certainly not want to put any mini's on even our relatively gentle cattle.

__________________
Marcy

Re: dear judge

quote:

---

Originally posted by Southwindaussie
What about sable color, dudley nose, white splashes on body, white past mid-line of shoulder, undershot jaw, missing more than three teeth, excessively overshot jaw...all faults considered so serious that they might as be a dq in both AKC and ASCA? I agree that the height restrictions, especially as regarding females under 17 " are necessary, but I have not, in 20 years of breeding Aussies, seen any over-sized dogs. I'm sure there are some out there, but not very many make it to the Conf. ring. Limiting the dq to simply height restrictions surely is not a good thing for the breed. Seriously, as long as we maintain the integrity of the breed for what it is intended to do - work stock - any dogs under 17" should eliminate themselves. We have cattle, and I would certainly not want to put any mini's on even our relatively gentle cattle.

---

__________________
Cross Check Catahoulas
We show our working dogs, we do not work our show dogs
http://www.crosscheckcatahoulas.com
https://www.facebook.com/crosscheckcatahoulas

CCR AMEN!!!
"But, please don't tell me that the 45 pound dog that I bring in to the ring can't stop a hog or a bull. I promise you, mine is likely the only one in the ring that has done it for real. IF my dog wasn't capable of it, I don't care how correct he or she is, you'd never see me take it in to a show ring."


i agree totally! if it aint working at my house it aint eating at my house and i'll be ****ed if i'll put show entries out for a dog that dont bring in the cattle! (or the new "bacon")

__________________
OLD OAKS BORDER COLLIES
WORKING STOCK DOGS
OLD OAKS RANCH PERFORMANCE HORSES
BUCKING BULLS AND SPORTS CATTLE

First of all, let me thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Your insights on your breeds have been quite instructive and helpful to all of us who dare to judge. The little details such as the post about spanning is critically important to our being better judges.

But as the thread continues, please help to keep to the original intent. It was not intended to advise the judges of ring procedure, a reminder about checking standards, address handling issues, or really do anything more than to give us judges the inside scoop on what is important to you within your breed in regards to conformation, temperament, grooming, and other little known “secrets”. Otherwise, it would have been titled, “Dear Bonehead!” (Heaven knows, that thread would take off like a rocket!)

So, as a reminder, please begin your post with “Dear Judge, in <state your breed>, please . . .” If you don’t tell us what breed you have, you might get us spanning Collies.

Now, to reset my example . . .

Dear Judge, in Poodles of all varieties and colors, please get your hands into that hair! I’m going to scissor my dog to sculpted perfection . . . unless I want one of my other dogs to win, whereby I will sculpt faults into the better dog . . . and unless you feel for proper structure and watch for correct movement, you’re going to follow my grooming and not what’s proper for the breed. Please don’t let me or my fellow Poodleers get away with that! Keep us honest and seek out what’s correct, and not just what looks right.

Oh, and Poodle butts have a “shelf” just below the anus. It’s formed by the points of the ischium on either side of the pelvis, and it’s not in the standard. We Poodle breeders like that well angled rear and not round bottoms. Like I said, it’s not in the standard, so you’re technically not wrong for overlooking it. It’s just a preference amongst us breeders, and you’ll look really intelligent if you note the good ones you find while judging.

And before I forget, like spanning, which is critical to judging those three Terriers, when you go over a Poodle’s coat, please sweep from the rear forward. By sweeping it forward along the backline, instead of from the head to the tail, you’re helping me to keep the shape I spent hours to achieve, and is written into the standard. A little tug on the topknot will also keep me honest there too . . . ;-)

Lastly, Poodles are Poodles. It doesn't matter if they're Standards, Mini's, or Toys; multi or solid, they all should look the same! We are one breed broken into four "breeds" and two varieties for show purposes only! A Toy's feet should be as tight as a Standard's, as a Standard should have the fine chiseling of a Mini or Toy. Multi's must have good fronts and rears for reach and drive, just the same as the solids. As I said, "Poodles are Poodles", no matter the packaging.

__________________
David Arthur
Aircastle Standard Poodles
http://aircastlekennels.com