UKC Forums - Dog Food

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Posted by trapperjohn on 01-12-2011 04:40 PM:

I have always fed the best food I can and supplement with meat, when I was trapping Beavers they would get that meat but in small doses or they would get to fat

Posted by 1deadeye on 01-12-2011 06:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
. If you can't see the different muscle groups and striations in a performance dog, it is too fat or carrying too much water in its muscles to perform at its peak.

Well put....
Scott

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Posted by CSnowgren on 01-12-2011 07:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
C snowgren, thats all I was getting at was corn isnt the blame for everyones feed problems, like so many think.

Junk feed is almost always in the eye of the beholder. Some of these lower class feeds, if supplemented properly you can get some results from, others the hounds just cant seem to get anything from them?

Another argument in the making, but I feed a high fat diet year round. Dogs use fat to keep themselves hydrated, dogs are fat burning sons of guns.Fat is their energy and reserve energy. If a guy pays attention to what kind and how much of a high fat diet in his dogs, you would never feed anything less than 20% fat. Yes even to old dogs, yes even to laid up dogs.

TRAXX ADDICT, Just so you know, I have seen dogs eat field corn and have had several, eat sweet corn, thrown down in the garden. Does that mean I'm gonna switch them to an all corn diet? NO.

As far as my cracker jack education, Anyone can get on the computer and google a few things, and talk smart, or you can go to college and study nutrition and animal science, or you can do what I did and thats spend alot of time and money the past 35 years feeding, Hunting, conditioning, running competiton trials and hunts, studying and conversing with houndsman that are the leaders in their field, of how to condition and feed hounds.
Most coonhunters and coonhounds, will never work hard enough to fully understand the pro's or con's of the feed they are feeding.

For sure. I wasn't directing my post to anyone in particular, just throwing it out there for those who have the ability to read between the lines and are generally concerned with seeking answers to thier problems. I must disagree though with your comment about junk feed being in the eye of the beholder. Just because one believes a feed to be good, it doesn't change what the feed is. The only thing that changes, or is lacking, is the knowledge of what good feed is by the eye of the beholder. lol Guys get cranked because they find out what they feed is equivelant to chicken feed and all of a sudden they refuse to listen or learn because they hate realizing that they have been a dumbazz for so long. They come up with all kinds of excuses as to why they feed what they do, the best one is that "it works for me and my dogs". Like I said, perception doesn't change what the feed is. Junk is junk. Another great excuse is, "as long as I am buying, I'll feed what I feel like feeding. If you ain't buying, don't worry about it." And again, as great of an excuse as that is........junk is junk. If mediocre dogs fed junk is one's idea of standards, so be it. Anyway, supplementing is almost always a good idea. One has to figure out for thier own pocketbook ....is feeding junk to save a few bucks work out if I have to turn around and supplement anyway? I could never come to that conclusion and just decided to buy better feed. Now when I supplement, it serves the purpose of what a supplement is for. Supplementing should not be used to bridge junk to average, but to bridge good feed and elevated performance. All too often junk feed has too many side effects to be able to supplement them out.

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Posted by CSnowgren on 01-12-2011 07:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by 1deadeye
Well put....
Scott

Good looking dog. Coondog yet?

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Posted by Traxx Addict on 01-12-2011 08:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald

TRAXX ADDICT, Just so you know, I have seen dogs eat field corn and have had several, eat sweet corn, thrown down in the garden. Does that mean I'm gonna switch them to an all corn diet? NO.

As far as my cracker jack education, Anyone can get on the computer and google a few things, and talk smart, or you can go to college and study nutrition and animal science, or you can do what I did and thats spend alot of time and money the past 35 years feeding, Hunting, conditioning, running competiton trials and hunts, studying and conversing with houndsman that are the leaders in their field, of how to condition and feed hounds.
Most coonhunters and coonhounds, will never work hard enough to fully understand the pro's or con's of the feed they are feeding.

Having a background in Agriculture and animal nutrition and seeing as it is my job to oversee the nutrition and "diets" of meat producing animals on a HUGE scale. I do have a small clue about corn and it's nutritional value.

BTW..I have seen a dog eat "chit".....What were you getting at about dog's eating corn??

Bottom line is corn is a filler, not very efficient at producing true weight and muscle, and that combined with rendered chicken feathers isn't a viable, smart choice for the foundation of a dog feed.

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Posted by nathan cooley on 01-12-2011 08:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
For sure. I wasn't directing my post to anyone in particular, just throwing it out there for those who have the ability to read between the lines and are generally concerned with seeking answers to thier problems. I must disagree though with your comment about junk feed being in the eye of the beholder. Just because one believes a feed to be good, it doesn't change what the feed is. The only thing that changes, or is lacking, is the knowledge of what good feed is by the eye of the beholder. lol Guys get cranked because they find out what they feed is equivelant to chicken feed and all of a sudden they refuse to listen or learn because they hate realizing that they have been a dumbazz for so long. They come up with all kinds of excuses as to why they feed what they do, the best one is that "it works for me and my dogs". Like I said, perception doesn't change what the feed is. Junk is junk. Another great excuse is, "as long as I am buying, I'll feed what I feel like feeding. If you ain't buying, don't worry about it." And again, as great of an excuse as that is........junk is junk. If mediocre dogs fed junk is one's idea of standards, so be it. Anyway, supplementing is almost always a good idea. One has to figure out for thier own pocketbook ....is feeding junk to save a few bucks work out if I have to turn around and supplement anyway? I could never come to that conclusion and just decided to buy better feed. Now when I supplement, it serves the purpose of what a supplement is for. Supplementing should not be used to bridge junk to average, but to bridge good feed and elevated performance. All too often junk feed has too many side effects to be able to supplement them out.

so what is the best feed? how much do u feed?

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 01-12-2011 08:34 PM:

Traxx, You still are missing the point. I never said it wasnt a filler, I only said its not the "Bad" guy that everyone makes it out to be.

Read my post again, maybe you'll understand.

I have a background in agriculture and animal nutrition on a large scale also, doesnt mean I'm too smart to learn something.

Posted by Bluedogman on 01-12-2011 08:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Traxx Addict
Having a background in Agriculture and animal nutrition and seeing as it is my job to oversee the nutrition and "diets" of meat producing animals on a HUGE scale. I do have a small clue about corn and it's nutritional value.

BTW..I have seen a dog eat "chit".....What were you getting at about dog's eating corn??

Bottom line is corn is a filler, not very efficient at producing true weight and muscle, and that combined with rendered chicken feathers isn't a viable, smart choice for the foundation of a dog feed.

Animal Nutrition Specialist now? Just a few days ago it was Wildlife Biolgy! Oh! It's both I'll bet! What's next? Animal Science?

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Posted by 1deadeye on 01-12-2011 09:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
Good looking dog. Coondog yet?

Thanks. She all coondog.
Her name is Ntch PR Browns Leinie Red Ryder. ( Leinie) I hunt small wood lots here. She was all go and no return. Spent many a night trying to find her. Always on the wood somewhere. Her 3rd ukc hunt she got her first. Easily passed her HTX hunt.
I sold her to her sire's owner (Topdog) because of her get deep and no check in. He loves that. He finished her to ntch.
She's why I started learning about nutrition. Couldn't keep the weight on her. I started reading up on sled dog nutrition and went from there.

I love reading these posts. They make me giggle.

Scott
.

__________________
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Home of the
Xtreme Hyde Dawg

Home of,
PR Nitech Leinie Red Ryder
PR Jan Da Red Ryder Butcher ( JJ )

Posted by Traxx Addict on 01-12-2011 09:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Traxx, You still are missing the point. I never said it wasnt a filler, I only said its not the "Bad" guy that everyone makes it out to be.

Read my post again, maybe you'll understand.

I have a background in agriculture and animal nutrition on a large scale also, doesnt mean I'm too smart to learn something.

When it is the nutritional base of a dog feed..it is "bad". Dogs were not made to live off of a corn based food source. YES..they can and do...but it isn't healthy for them and the strain it laces on their digestive system isn't healthy.

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Posted by Traxx Addict on 01-12-2011 09:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bluedogman
Animal Nutrition Specialist now? Just a few days ago it was Wildlife Biolgy! Oh! It's both I'll bet! What's next? Animal Science?

Bluedogman...Your reading skills is apparently worse than your eyesight and animal spotting ability. I never said I was a paid Wildlife Biologist...... I said I have a biology degree.

And yes..I oversee the production and nutritional content and management of feed for literally MILLIONS of meat producing animals. I have a little knowledge of the nutritional value of corn.

I suggest you invest in a reading comprehension book from your local grade school so you can hopefully quit inserting your foot into your mouth and proving to others that most fools need to keep silent.

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Posted by CSnowgren on 01-12-2011 10:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nathan cooley
so what is the best feed? how much do u feed?

I wish that I could tell you what the best feed is but honestly, I don't know. I feed a high protein and high fat feed and still end up supplementing. I think it is possible to "top out" in terms of providing nutritional value. But I also think that actual feed is only one aspect of many that it takes to have one in top shape. If it was as simple as feed only, we all would have high level performing dogs. But obviously it isn't. I do know that in the many aspects that it takes, I will control the ones that I can instead of relying on junk feed to do it for me. I feed two cups to 3 cups of kibble on average and may supplement with jack mac, tripe, cooked rice or a powdered supplement. Sometimes I may not feed kibble at all and just load 'em up with a pound or so of red meat. Just depends on what I have done with them that day. I give 'em what they need based on what they did for that day and what I intend on asking them to do the next day. I feed for performance, not ease of pocketbook or ease of scooping out a can of junk to get by. There is not a feed made that serves my purpose on a daily basis. You'd be surprised on what you can feed a dog daily and not give it the squirts once you get them cleaned out of junk feed and thier system back to running on clean fuel.

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 01-12-2011 10:22 PM:

Have to agree with you csnowgren. I have tried tons and tons of different feeds, never have found one that I really feel was the "feed to end all feeds". Although, theyre are a couple I use and have good luck with.

Purely out of curiosity, what kibble have you found to best satisfy you, and I am more interested in what powdered supplements you have found beneficial.

Posted by Bluedogman on 01-12-2011 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Traxx Addict
Bluedogman...Your reading skills is apparently worse than your eyesight and animal spotting ability. I never said I was a paid Wildlife Biologist...... I said I have a biology degree.

And yes..I oversee the production and nutritional content and management of feed for literally MILLIONS of meat producing animals. I have a little knowledge of the nutritional value of corn.

I suggest you invest in a reading comprehension book from your local grade school so you can hopefully quit inserting your foot into your mouth and proving to others that most fools need to keep silent.

You are sure doing a lot with the little sawdust you have between your ears! I think I would put you in the "Big talker" category.

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Posted by CSnowgren on 01-12-2011 10:50 PM:

Could a guy hunt with her?

quote:
Originally posted by 1deadeye
Thanks. She all coondog.
Her name is Ntch PR Browns Leinie Red Ryder. ( Leinie) I hunt small wood lots here. She was all go and no return. Spent many a night trying to find her. Always on the wood somewhere. Her 3rd ukc hunt she got her first. Easily passed her HTX hunt.
I sold her to her sire's owner (Topdog) because of her get deep and no check in. He loves that. He finished her to ntch.
She's why I started learning about nutrition. Couldn't keep the weight on her. I started reading up on sled dog nutrition and went from there.

I love reading these posts. They make me giggle.

Scott
.

__________________
“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Posted by CSnowgren on 01-12-2011 10:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Have to agree with you csnowgren. I have tried tons and tons of different feeds, never have found one that I really feel was the "feed to end all feeds". Although, theyre are a couple I use and have good luck with.

Purely out of curiosity, what kibble have you found to best satisfy you, and I am more interested in what powdered supplements you have found beneficial.

I used to feed Wellness and Evo, great feed but can't get it where I am at. The feed I use now is the Diamond EA. Not the best out there but the fat content and ingredients that provide it is what caught my attention. I can add clean protein when I need to but quality fat is hard to find in a kibble. Hence the supplement. I pm'd you the info on the supplement.

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Posted by josh on 01-12-2011 11:34 PM:

Im all for taking good care of dogs, but after reading this I starting to wonder how most dogs ever get a coon treed on plain old dogfood.

Posted by SWANNY6 on 01-12-2011 11:51 PM:

Dogfood

theirs a guy in fairchild wi selling simmons choice and hunters blend for 16 a50 lb bag his name is jason tibbit number is 715 797 2290 if this helps

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Posted by Traxx Addict on 01-12-2011 11:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bluedogman
You are sure doing a lot with the little sawdust you have betwwen your ears! I think I would put you in the "Big talker" category.

This coming from a guy who swears he has seen a black panther and spells at least one word incorrectly in every post??? LOL!!

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Posted by 1deadeye on 01-13-2011 12:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
Could a guy hunt with her?

Contact Topdog over on the redbone board. His hunting is shut down right now do to deep snow. He's up by La Crosse,Wi.

Scott

__________________
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Home of the
Xtreme Hyde Dawg

Home of,
PR Nitech Leinie Red Ryder
PR Jan Da Red Ryder Butcher ( JJ )

Posted by Bluedogman on 01-13-2011 12:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Traxx Addict
This coming from a guy who swears he has seen a black panther and spells at least one word incorrectly in every post??? LOL!!

Honestly I'm surprised you would be able to tell if a word was spelled incorrectly.

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Posted by WI_CoonHunters on 01-13-2011 03:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Traxx Addict
This coming from a guy who swears he has seen a black panther and spells at least one word incorrectly in every post??? LOL!!

i belive he seen a black panther because here in wisconsin there has been siting of moutain lions and also when u was really young i was playing in my cousins play house and we had to go into the house because there was a black panther in the field and my aunt called the DNR and they didnt belive her and did nothing

Posted by ronald schultz on 01-13-2011 04:11 AM:

gresham coonhunter

have you fed simon's choice?

Posted by WI_CoonHunters on 01-13-2011 04:15 AM:

ron

nope were can you get it at?

Posted by CSnowgren on 01-13-2011 04:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
Im all for taking good care of dogs, but after reading this I starting to wonder how most dogs ever get a coon treed on plain old dogfood.

Nobody said they couldn't live on junk feed. Many forget that they also evolved as scavengers. They can tolerate a good bunch of crap, thankfully, based on some of the junk that folks feed them. But, there is nothing wrong with those who have an interest in ensuring that thier feed is as good as they can make it. Why leave it to chance, its one of the things that you as an owner can control. Why more people don't is beyond me.

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