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-- Lay up dog yes or no? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=358690)

quote:

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Originally posted by blueticker
I don't believe for one second all the special layup training will make a hound one bit better at treeing layups. There either born with the ability or thay never have it. Layup ability has two necessary factors: 1) Scenting Ability, 2) Brains. I do however believe, if your hound gets hunted about twenty hours per week and trees a few layups they'll get better at it.

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__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Accurate Layup Dogs

There are alot of dogs that locate out of the wind and tree alot of empty trees. Accurate layup dogs are born from dogs that carry the genes for it. They tree where the coon is, not where he was!
The very best layup dogs are born. "You can't get pecans from a peanut plants"
Two toes, Is this explained better?

I haven't posted for 3 or 4 days on this thread. I didn't know that there are so many dogs slick treeing on layups. According to ya'll they are everywhere you look. I do not doubt you fanasies either, or even your legitimate claims. If you go back to the first page of this thread you will find a post from a man from Santee SC that said when he could tell when his dog was fixing to lay one up on a comp hunt it gave him the chills cause he knew he likely take minus. Noboby responded to his post. It was like it went right over everbodies head, what with ya'll fanatsizing about the way a dog should hold hi shead etc.

So my question to you comp guys is this ? A dog is treeing. Nothing backing. And he is two or three or four trees off from where the coon is looking with both eyes wide open. He deserves a minus right cause he missed it. However, in the same patch of woods which is thick basal area laurel oaks that keep their leaves on all winter, a dog is blowing the top out with legs wrapped tight around a ten inch trunk. But this thing is blowing the top out. How many of ya'll vote circle? And then somebody finally spots the same coon looking with the same two wide open eyeballs and then try to create a path to the fourth tree over where the coon is and has been. One dog trees on live scent of a real live coon and the other is your standard lying competition dog? Who gets the minus even though the dog showed you the coon and the comp type takes circle cause nobody has the guts to minus a leafy tree. You guys make me laugh and sick at the same time. So theres at least 20 more pages that could be added to this thead for you clock punchers to justify your dogs superior characteristics... While ya'll mess around writing how it ought to be, I just slung another coon on the dogbox.

Well you know there is more than one way to do lay ups. You have pool scent and you have air scent. A dog can get pretty good at pool scent but is at the mercy of the wind on air scent. Nobody can tell how they are finding that tree unless they know a little about it or do a little experimenting with hanging coons in a tree.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Really I could care less how my dog trees a coon as long as it trees and stays until I get there. I have said before that we all dream of the perfect dog but unfortunatly it don't exist.

If mine trees a "lay up" I will pat her head just the same as I would any other coon she treed. Don't believe in lay up dogs and I never will.

If a dog is winding a coon it will miss a great percent of the time. I have seen it many times. Sure you may atually see the coon and in a pleasure hunt be plus 1 on coon killed but in a hunt you will be minused both ways unless you can cinvince the cast that the coon jumped 2 or 3 trees over.

__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

quote:

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Originally posted by CWS
Really I could care less how my dog trees a coon as long as it trees and stays until I get there. I have said before that we all dream of the perfect dog but unfortunatly it don't exist.

If mine trees a "lay up" I will pat her head just the same as I would any other coon she treed. Don't believe in lay up dogs and I never will.

If a dog is winding a coon it will miss a great percent of the time. I have seen it many times. Sure you may atually see the coon and in a pleasure hunt be plus 1 on coon killed but in a hunt you will be minused both ways unless you can cinvince the cast that the coon jumped 2 or 3 trees over.

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__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Re: Accurate Layup Dogs

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
There are alot of dogs that locate out of the wind and tree alot of empty trees. Accurate layup dogs are born from dogs that carry the genes for it. They tree where the coon is, not where he was!
The very best layup dogs are born. "You can't get pecans from a peanut plants"
Two toes, Is this explained better?

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Re: Accurate Layup Dogs

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
There are alot of dogs that locate out of the wind and tree alot of empty trees. Accurate layup dogs are born from dogs that carry the genes for it. They tree where the coon is, not where he was!
The very best layup dogs are born. "You can't get pecans from a peanut plants"
Two toes, Is this explained better?

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__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

If its a truly Lay-up Coon the Hound will Locate by Smelling the Base of trees in the direction the scent is coming from .. If not a Lay-up the Hound will find the track leading to the tree...

__________________
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!

540-421-2875

PR, Saltlick's Blue Misty Linga "Bluetick Coonhound"

French X American Hounds

Re: Re: Accurate Layup Dogs

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Originally posted by CWS
It dont matter what was in there genes. If dogs locate and tree out of the wind they will miss most the time. I have been there and seen it.

Very few dogs do this anyways, and you can keep the ones that do.

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Re: Re: Re: Accurate Layup Dogs

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Originally posted by Snuff_52
IF YOU HAD A CLUE YOU WOULD BE DANGEROUS!

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__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

Re: Re: Accurate Layup Dogs

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Originally posted by CWS
It dont matter what was in there genes. If dogs locate and tree out of the wind they will miss most the time. I have been there and seen it.

Very few dogs do this anyways, and you can keep the ones that do.

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I have seen two that were good at it, quite a few that weren't. Given a choice, I'll take the one that sniffs the tree over the one that sniffs the air.

Sure you may. I hunt walker and english dogs. I do not care one hoot what they are out of and I sure do not want to take the time to try to understand the genes of dogs. You may think you know how it all works and i'm sure you know more then me but nobody can predict anything about these dogs.

I turn them loose and I know what I expect from my dogs. I don't care what the mom or dad was like unless I owned them, all that matters is that they tree coon and do it with speed. 7 out of 10 trees is not exceptable either. I do not have perfect dogs but I will not waste my short ammount of time getting angry at what i'm turning loose, I just won't do it.

Winding coon in a 70 foot tall tree doesn't happen. A dog may wind coon and get the general area of it's whereabouts but when it locks down it is guessing and chances are good it missed.

You can have them all. I want my dog to use its nose on the ground and if it starts to get the bright idea of winding coon and trying to "lay them up" they will no longer be fed my me.

__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

LMAO!!!

You have your experience's & I have mine. We have owned several just because you think that it's "Bunk" about a dog layin up coon don't make it the gig but "YOUR EXPERIENCE" tells you that.

Best of luck grubbin track's..........................

quote:

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Originally posted by CWS
I want my dog to use its nose on the ground and if it starts to get the bright idea of winding coon and trying to "lay them up" they will no longer be fed my me.

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Originally posted by Snuff_52
THAT IS GOOD TO KNOW. AT LEAST THE DOG WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO END UP IN A HUNTER'S HANDS THAT MIGHT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN A GOOD DOG AND A HOLE IN THE GROUND

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__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

The dogs that I have known that layup coons, use their noses both ways ! They could hit a cold trail and get it hot, or if there wasn't a trail they would tree coons that hadn't bothered to come down to lay a fresh one ! They took the coon as they came to them, and didn't have to drop in 2 miles before they found a hot track to run !
It has been my experience that you could tell the dogs that lacked the winding trait when hunting on rivers and sloughs . When the trail hit the water, the full time track runners would be running back and forth unable to get the trail straightened out. They would seem to be switching tracks , hoping that one didn't cross the water too ! Been on few casts that used the whole time allotted without making the first tree , but ran and ran ... these were grandnite casts. So I would have to stick with the genetic's played a large part . By breeding for that hot nose you loose the winding part and end up with those "get deep" dogs that look good in bean fields, but come up short if taken out and put in the rough stuff !
On the posts talking about dog setting under the coon and not on tree, have seen that happen when dog treeing by sight, after winding the coon. I have seen a few that would do that when coon was changing trees ... sort of like a squirrel "limbing" , when coon got into next tree the dog would take to the tree. That is unless the dogs tree style was to set down and not latch onto tree to start with.

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

Well I wrot for 30 minutes and poof, it was gone, so i'll make a statement or two and post, and then I'll be able to edit my post to my hearts content. Watch this, I shall get it posted.

So you want a dog to "lock down" on a fickle breeze? Because that's what the rule tell you and you live and die by comp hunt rules. Well think for a second about the people what have money, particularly the yankees that own a great percentage of acreage in the south. Quail Plantations, if you will. So , a dog locks down, and points, but since he has locked down, he no longer has the option to move, but if he does , he is minused. I do believe the smart Yankees would be laughing their LMFO at you toothles wonders. We're talking about a layup dog. It doesn't happen every night. At least, not as often as a covey. Ya'll got any rules like the headers and heelers in a calf roping that can minus a calf? Or can Minus the covey? Or deduct for a pissey bull in a bull ride or a climbing Bucket coon? What?? I want you to talk out loud rather than mutter. Wha????? I shall speak for you then. The answer is NO!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Travis Brown
I've had one really good layup/rigdog and I don't know how many times I pulled her out of the box on the tailgate thinking I was going to send her down a hollow only to see her winding up in a different direction. As soon as I would try to send her down the hollow she would turn and go the direction she was winding. Sometimes she would strike a track and sometimes she would just fall treed. Now I've had some other dogs that could run a track as good as her or maybe a little bit better, but never had another that could work air scent like her. I've had her throw out a locate while riding in the dogbox in the back of the truck driving through national forests. I would cut her loose and sometimes she would strike or tree right close and sometimes she would go in there a hundred yards to it. That is not something I saw her do just once, but at least a hundred times. She was just as accurate with a layup as with a track. Never did have the couple trees down problem.

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__________________
Gold Life member of G.P.A.A. #257936
Member of The Lost Dutchman's Mining Association #02890729

quote:

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Originally posted by
LMAO!!!

You have your experience's & I have mine. We have owned several just because you think that it's "Bunk" about a dog layin up coon don't make it the gig but "YOUR EXPERIENCE" tells you that.

Best of luck grubbin track's..........................

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__________________
Gold Life member of G.P.A.A. #257936
Member of The Lost Dutchman's Mining Association #02890729

quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Wells
The dogs that I have known that layup coons, use their noses both ways ! They could hit a cold trail and get it hot, or if there wasn't a trail they would tree coons that hadn't bothered to come down to lay a fresh one ! They took the coon as they came to them, and didn't have to drop in 2 miles before they found a hot track to run !
It has been my experience that you could tell the dogs that lacked the winding trait when hunting on rivers and sloughs . When the trail hit the water, the full time track runners would be running back and forth unable to get the trail straightened out. They would seem to be switching tracks , hoping that one didn't cross the water too ! Been on few casts that used the whole time allotted without making the first tree , but ran and ran ... these were grandnite casts. So I would have to stick with the genetic's played a large part . By breeding for that hot nose you loose the winding part and end up with those "get deep" dogs that look good in bean fields, but come up short if taken out and put in the rough stuff !
On the posts talking about dog setting under the coon and not on tree, have seen that happen when dog treeing by sight, after winding the coon. I have seen a few that would do that when coon was changing trees ... sort of like a squirrel "limbing" , when coon got into next tree the dog would take to the tree. That is unless the dogs tree style was to set down and not latch onto tree to start with.

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__________________
Gold Life member of G.P.A.A. #257936
Member of The Lost Dutchman's Mining Association #02890729

btt

__________________
jimmywayne

When you get used to dogs that can do the layup trick, the straight trackrunners just seems to be missing something. Watching a screen while setting on the tailgate tells you the direction dog is moving, but unless you actually see the dog, you really have no idea as to how it's actually hunting. Folks talk about split treeing, saying their dog is going to be all alone with a coon, there might be a layup dog running in stealth mode . Not all show the dancing around hunting scent, some lock on like a guided missle, hunting 1/4 mile in before the leash is released.
I would say reading Travis Brown's post, that he had one of those stealth types on his leash. Most folks would never know what she was doing on a hunt, as the line shows very little to give a clue. I guess hunting and breeding some of her ancestors, it becomes real easy to know from slightest descriptions, as I have been seeing same things for over 35 years. I figure to be seeing it for years to come, thanks to Travis for crossing Little Peg with Nocturnal Skipper, I have some of my old line still with me. Might even give me something to use on Travis's more recent crosses .
Travis if you happen to stumble across this thread, I have a question for you. Would a male coming from a brother of your layup female crossed on a grandaughter of the layup female have a chance being layup artists ?

__________________
D. Glenn Wells, Jr.
UKC MOH

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jimmywayne