UKC Forums - why breed junk

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-- why breed junk (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=336805)

Posted by Cat and bear on 02-24-2010 04:18 AM:

Re: Re: walkers or coon hounds

quote:
Originally posted by BAWL_TRACK
99% of the coonhunters i know could care less about the feet myself included ,,,,you going to hold it aginst the dog if it has all black toenails an 2 white??? lol

My point exactly. 99% doesnt care about feet. so, us folks that live in snow, and bad snow conditons have to outcross to feet, and nose, but then we get bashed here, because they are trashy grade dogs, or old time walker meat dogs, that dont have papers and a title. I know what I"m taking to the woods to put meat on the table, and it dont have papers or title. LOL

Posted by Christy on 02-24-2010 04:18 AM:

Re: ki4qpu

quote:
Originally posted by wayne f
christy beat me to it.15 dollars to worm a litter 20 dollars to feed them maybe thats the reason they don't turn out. then breeding unregistered dogs selling them to the first person that shows up with the cash.
christy certainly has accomplished more than most with her sid dog and his get. i'm pretty proud of her and her husband they work together work hard training there hounds and winning with them. i read many many posts on here from people that breed to her hound and buy puppies from her and how pleased they are with the outcome

THANK YOU WAYNE. THAT REALLY MEANS ALOT.

YOU KNOW KI4QPU. HONESTLY WE HAVE TOLD ANYONE THAT HAS EVER BOUGHT A PUP THAT IF THEY WERENT SATISFIED BRING IT BACK AND WE WOULD GIVE THEM ANOTHER ONE.

AND YOU KNOW, IN THE 5 YEARS AT STUD, WE HAVE NEVER, NOT ONE TIME HAD A PUP RETURNED TO US.

WE HAVE ALSO NEVER HAD A FEMALE OWNER SAY THEY REGRETTED MAKING THE CROSSES THEY MADE.

HOWEVER, WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE REPEAT BREEDERS, AND REPEAT BUYERS. AND WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COME BREED THEIR NICE FEMALES JUST AFTER HUNTING WITH A DOG OFF OF SID.

WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN OUR BREEDING PROGRAM AND I REALLY DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS.

__________________
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Posted by Regan H on 02-24-2010 04:57 AM:

sorry pups

I read a lot of this and decieded to say something some of you know what you are talking about and most of you are just running of at the mouth on the up side dogs are bred better then they ever been you should have bougth a pup 45 years ago you would sure see the differents.
The biggest thing is most of you kids don't know how to train a pup!
You try to train them to early you want a year old nt. ch. while it just don't work. all that yard training with drags,treeing on caged coon,and what ever can be over done.
All you will do is mess a pups mind up.
Just do anuff to interduce it to a coon then take with a older dog that can be trusted with a pup [a pup trainer} it don't have to be a old dog just a dog that does't trash or bites at the tree .
If it has it in it hunt it by its self when it starts stikeing and treeing ahead of other dogs. hunt it hard them hunt it with other dogs and by its self.
It boils down to common sense . I know a lot of titled dogs don't deserve it i've been in alot of hunt's.

__________________
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Posted by Christy on 02-24-2010 05:03 AM:

THATS WHAT WE DO WITH OUR PUPS. LIKE RED FOR EXAMPLE. HES GOING, STRIKING, RUNNING TREEING AND EVEN TRYING TO GET OFF ON HIS OWN SOME.

HES NEVER SEEN A FEEDER. WHAT HES LEARNING HE IS WORKIN FOR.

WE LOVE FOOLING WITH PUPS TO WATCH THEM PROGRESS.

Posted by Regan H on 02-24-2010 05:09 AM:

sorry pups

__________________
Regans Blackland Black&Tans

Posted by Okie Dawg on 02-24-2010 05:14 AM:

Very good post Mr. Regan H.
I don't know how you get away with this though. LOL
Every time I mention the fact of poor handlers I get hit with "It is all in the breeding and if bred right it takes no training". LOL
They just pop out of the womb a coon dog. LMAO
Takes good blood but some one has to know what to do with it too.

__________________
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Posted by ki4qpu on 02-24-2010 01:12 PM:

Re: Re: ki4qpu

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
THANK YOU WAYNE. THAT REALLY MEANS ALOT.

YOU KNOW KI4QPU. HONESTLY WE HAVE TOLD ANYONE THAT HAS EVER BOUGHT A PUP THAT IF THEY WERENT SATISFIED BRING IT BACK AND WE WOULD GIVE THEM ANOTHER ONE.

AND YOU KNOW, IN THE 5 YEARS AT STUD, WE HAVE NEVER, NOT ONE TIME HAD A PUP RETURNED TO US.

WE HAVE ALSO NEVER HAD A FEMALE OWNER SAY THEY REGRETTED MAKING THE CROSSES THEY MADE.

HOWEVER, WE HAVE HAD MULTIPLE REPEAT BREEDERS, AND REPEAT BUYERS. AND WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE COME BREED THEIR NICE FEMALES JUST AFTER HUNTING WITH A DOG OFF OF SID.

WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN OUR BREEDING PROGRAM AND I REALLY DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS.

Christy,

you and most of the others completely and utterly missed the point and got tunnel vision - thinking I was attacking your dog and kennel.

I give up after this: If someone on here posts or comes to your house. And says i'm looking for a stud that is heavy bred sackett. Your quick to chime in and offer sid. Not knowing what the female is capable of in the woods. And may or may not be WORTHY of sid or breeding at all. As a stud owner and lover of the sport would you want a litter of pups from a female that is not good stock? If it were reversed and you had the female that was a great dog, you wouldn't want to breed to the stud that hasn't left the chain in three years-and no i'm not talking about sid. It's the responsibilty of both parties to know both dogs are worthy of breeding and not just decent papers, to make the next generation of hounds better. If you haven't got that I can't spread it any thinner.

__________________
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Home of the pot lickers

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day! Teach a man to fish, and tomorrow he'll have all his buddies in your fishin' hole!

Posted by Bluedogman on 02-24-2010 01:30 PM:

Who'd a thunk it! This tread turned in to a brawl -- didn't it? Never know do we?

__________________
Johnny Williams

Posted by rance56 on 02-24-2010 02:53 PM:

Matt,

no offense, but i wish i had it all figured out like you.
you are always on here claiming folks breed for the wrong reasons, folks choose a stud for the wrong reasons, you arent a competion hunter yet you go to the hunts, you know this and that about this dog that no one else does. it sure is easy sitting back trying to find any alittle thing to pick apart.

__________________
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Posted by on 02-24-2010 03:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
Matt,

no offense, but i wish i had it all figured out like you.
you are always on here claiming folks breed for the wrong reasons, folks choose a stud for the wrong reasons, you arent a competion hunter yet you go to the hunts, you know this and that about this dog that no one else does. it sure is easy sitting back trying to find any alittle thing to pick apart.

I have my opinions rance, and you have yours, Im not gonna argue with you...the way I choose to do things is working for me, and I dont give a tinkers dam if you like it or not...

Posted by rance56 on 02-24-2010 04:35 PM:

Matt, the issue is you voice alot of your opinions based off of hearsay or what you ASSUME to be the case. how in the world do you know why folks breed a gyp, or why they choose a stud a stud? or what type of dog they are breeding for? you make snide comments then when someone asks you who you are talking about you want to talk about it in private yet you bring it up on a public message board. like i said, some folks just sit back knock everything and everyone else, these are generaly the same type that have excuses why their dogs didnt win. sure did suprise me to read earlier in this post that such a hard hunter like yourself didnt have a dog tuned up. also suprised me that someone that doesnt like the hunts would take a dog to one that wasnt ready.

you would do well to heed the advice the Barrett brother gave you a couple of weeks past.

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 02-24-2010 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
Matt, the issue is you voice alot of your opinions based off of hearsay or what you ASSUME to be the case. how in the world do you know why folks breed a gyp, or why they choose a stud a stud? or what type of dog they are breeding for? you make snide comments then when someone asks you who you are talking about you want to talk about it in private yet you bring it up on a public message board. like i said, some folks just sit back knock everything and everyone else, these are generaly the same type that have excuses why their dogs didnt win. sure did suprise me to read earlier in this post that such a hard hunter like yourself didnt have a dog tuned up. also suprised me that someone that doesnt like the hunts would take a dog to one that wasnt ready.

you would do well to heed the advice the Barrett brother gave you a couple of weeks past.

Oh cool I have a pup from Rance and got one comeing from Matt. I will get to know first hand witch breeding program is the best. My Rance pup is AWSOME so you better make sure I get an AWSOME pup from you Matt........LMAO
I know one pup does not a breeding program make guys. BUT IT MAKES A GREAT THING TO PULL YOUR CHAIN ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Posted by MRC on 02-24-2010 05:06 PM:

Re: Re: Re: ki4qpu

quote:
Originally posted by ki4qpu
It's the responsibilty of both parties to know both dogs are worthy of breeding and not just decent papers, to make the next generation of hounds better. If you haven't got that I can't spread it any thinner.

But it's also the buyer's responsibility to know what they are buying....

__________________
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas, (1884-1968)

Posted by Okie Dawg on 02-24-2010 05:31 PM:

I think in a perfect world the stud dogs would only breed to bitchs as good as them but then in a perfect world you wouldn't have a dog catcher or pound.
The best I understand it SS & PERF. is set up to were a dog has to have so many pups on the ground before they can even put in to get it considered as a SS or Perf. dog. That in it self promotes breeding a dog to lesser bitches to get in the books. Every thing about a dog and getting it titled is costly. I don't blame a stud dog owner for breeding to what has the money. If they are willing to pay you then they will pay someone else if you don't take there money.
I was just talking to a friend of mine that yote hunts. He bred his grey hound bitch to a stud that has thousands of pups on the ground.
So like I said,in a perfect world things would be differant but in this one you have to play the game put before you. No body has control of all the rules so you just have to play the best you can.
As far as the paper thing and titles. They don't make the dog and I don't like some of the rules that are causeing changes in the dogs but for those of us that don't know a lot of hunters and don't hunt with a lot of other dogs. The papers and what they have done in the hunts is what we have to go by when buying a pup and is probubly one of the best things to go buy if getting one for comp. hunting.

Posted by BAWL_TRACK on 02-24-2010 05:33 PM:

if they stud owners wont breed to help out a fellow hunter just to breed it for him cause he asked an choose his stud,, if he wants money or half the pups he's looking for money,,,,, all the programs the studs are enrolled in are part of money thing anyway to try an make money off the pups so some people might get the wool pulled over thier eyes but thiers a few still see what im talking bout...........an the reason you say ,,,,(why breed junk) maybe it ant the females owners falt or stud have you ever consider thinking bout the owners of the pups the way thier hunted or maybe no hunted is the reason......most reason is most see 1 or 2 dogs doing good an say hell im find me a female breed her to daddy to them dogs ol jack down the road here said he like to have a pup outta ol dog an bill said he'd like a pair thats the breeding reason..........people look on here an see oh man people are looking for pups right left out of this dog i'll breed her an put the pups on here man i'll get 3-4 hundred a pup.........myself an (some others )breed to sadisfy your self.... meaning not to breed to sell the pups.. breed for somthin you want to raise an hunt an maybe a buddy or 2 an not get rid of a pup till you think wich ones you want to keep an ask ya buddy or whoever a maybe50-75 dollars to cover the paper/shots/wormer/feed.... an im happy with what i got an not breeding for what other want..... JMO

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Posted by Family on 02-24-2010 05:33 PM:

why breed junk ?

Metal Prices are Up?

couldn't resist.

up the stud fees and keep the junk dealers out.....watch it works.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 02-24-2010 05:54 PM:

Ok we do it for slick treeing dogs. Trees are worth more than coon these days and don't have to worrie about peta so much. LOL

Posted by on 02-24-2010 06:18 PM:

Rance, I will humor you once more, then dont expect a response from me again on a post like this...you have no idea what I do know and what I dont, I take very little of what I hear from other hunters at face value or as the truth, but there are a couple of older hunters that I will take their word for just about anything, on things they personally saw or experienced. When I make statements, did it ever occur to you I may have just a few people in mind when I make statements about breeding practices? And anything I say on here about peoples breeding practices are MY OPINION, like it or not. And your right, I dont have a dog tuned up. I moved here when I got married, my wife didnt want to move far from her father. There isnt as much hunting around here as I thought, and my young dogs are not ready for hard huntin, this time of year, and my male is not fun when he is hunted alone, the same thing every night gets old. I own 3 hounds, one 5 year old ntch with 1 win(won 6 out of 9 casts, 1 was pkc), and two 12 month old pups. My male has won the last 2 out of 3 casts without being tuned up at all, but he really needs to be tuned up to cover my butt and the mistakes I make, which he has had to do several times. You say I knock everything, yet I bet you would struggle to find me saying something negative about any dog or bloodlines. (go ahead and do your little search, like always, you wont find much) The casts my dog lost were lost honest, I have never complained of being cheated or short changed in a hunt, or made up excuses. We both made mistakes in the hunts, although most of them were mine. I go to hunts mostly to visit, and I have been to many hunts packing a hound, and end up going pleasure hunting with a friend. Oh, and for clarification, you talk about me not liking the hunts, yet going to them? In the last 5 years, I have entered in 9 competition hunts. And lastly, yep, I post a lot of pedigrees, and have many people pm me asking for help. At least I help people out Rance, what have you done for anyone but yourself lately? And from now on, if you have something off topic to speak with me about, give me a call or pm me, this isnt the place for it...405-240-0120

Posted by scottphillips76 on 02-24-2010 06:19 PM:

OK LADIES AND GENTS. LETS KEEP THE ISSUE THE ISSUE,

ISSUE; PEOPLE BREEDING CRAP WITH CRAP. BOTTOM LINE.
ISSUE; HARD WORKING HONEST PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WANT TO BUY A PUP AND TRAIN IT .
ISSUE; BAD BREDDING IS MAKING GOOD PEOPLE NOT WANT TO BUY DOGS AND KEEP COONHUNTING ALIVE.

SOLUTION GET EVERYBODY YOU KNOW WITH HOUNDS TO STOP
I MEAN NATION WIDE. SELECTIVE BREDDING MUST TAKE ACTION NOW. TODAY ,TOMMOROW, AND FOREVER.
WHAT ABOUT OUR FUTURE ITS BAD ENUFF THAT LIBERIAL BUNCH WANTS OUR GUNS AND FREEDOM!!!!! WHY SHOULD A HOUND OWNER BREEDER WANT TO TAKE THE PURPOSE OUT OF WHAT A COONHOUND WAS BREDD TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE?
THEY MUST HAVE VOTED FOR BARRACK NIGER OBHAMA CAUSE IN MY OPOION THERE JUST AS BAD AS HIM AND THE REST OF THEM EDIOTS TAKEN EVERYTHING AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOUNDMEN STAND UP
HOUNDSMEN TAKE A STAND
HOUNDSMEN MAKE A CHANGE
HOUNDSMEN STOP BEFORE U RUIN IT ALL 2 GETHER!!!!!!!
HOUNDSMEN SHOOT EVERYTHING THAT DONT RUN TRACK TREE AND STAY PUT BY-GOD ITS HIGH TIME WE MAKE A CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
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WITH TICKS!!!!

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 02-24-2010 06:24 PM:

Mr. Scott Phillips Change your Post or get ready to pack your bags !!

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Posted by MRC on 02-24-2010 06:33 PM:

And this thread will be deleted in .................

3...................

2.....................

1.......................

Posted by rance56 on 02-24-2010 06:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blue Style
Rance, I will humor you once more, then dont expect a response from me again on a post like this...you have no idea what I do know and what I dont, I take very little of what I hear from other hunters at face value or as the truth, but there are a couple of older hunters that I will take their word for just about anything, on things they personally saw or experienced. When I make statements, did it ever occur to you I may have just a few people in mind when I make statements about breeding practices? And your right, I dont have a dog tuned up. I moved here when I got married, my wife didnt want to move far from her father. There isnt as much hunting around here as I thought, and my young dogs are not ready for hard huntin, this time of year, and my male is not fun when he is hunted alone, the same thing every night gets old. I own 3 hounds, one 5 year old ntch with 1 win(won 6 out of 9 casts, 1 was pkc), and two 12 month old pups. My male has won the last 2 out of 3 casts without being tuned up at all, he really needs to be tuned up to cover my butt and the mistakes I make, which he has had to do several times. You say I knock everything, yet I bet you would struggle to find me saying something negative about any dog or bloodlines. (go ahead and do your little search, like always, you wont find much) The casts my dog lost were lost honest, I have never complained of being cheated or short changed in a hunt, or made up excuses. We both made mistakes in the hunts, although most of them were mine. I go to hunts mostly to visit, and I have been to many hunts packing a hound, and end up going pleasure hunting with a friend. Oh, and for clarification, you talk about me not liking the hunts, yet going to them? In the last 5 years, I have entered in 9 competition hunts. And lastly, yep, I post a lot of pedigrees, and have many people pm me asking for help. At least I help people out Rance, what have you done for anyone but yourself lately? And from now on, if you have something off topic to speak with me about, give me a call or pm me, this isnt the place for it...405-240-0120

some tell you about their wins, some tell you about their excuses.

does the RC post remind you of anything i just posted about?
what about people breeding to the stud of the month, but you didnt want to go into names on a message board but were perfectly willing to if i called you?
what about folks breeding for the wrong reasons?
what about countefiet competion dogs?

the problem isnt breeding too much junk. its not enough knowledgeable houndsmen, not enough hard hunters, and not enough hard culling. when you look at how low of a percentage of puppies turn out, there should be a revolving door at most hunters dog houses. we need to be running through puppies like a single man dreams about running through women. the best coondogs dotn always make the best reproducers, so go ahead and make that cross just cull the right way.

a knowledgeable buddy of mine explained it to me this way, there is either a bunch of liars on this board or a bunch sorry dogmen, cause if it not, where do all these super pups go off to once they get alittle age on them?

take the Barrett brothers advice!

btw, you make my head hurt enough on here, the last thing i want to do is have a phone conversation

__________________
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Posted by Okie Dawg on 02-24-2010 06:37 PM:

Re: ok

quote:
Originally posted by scottphillips76
OK LADIES AND GENTS. LETS KEEP THE ISSUE THE ISSUE,

ISSUE; PEOPLE BREEDING CRAP WITH CRAP. BOTTOM LINE.
ISSUE; HARD WORKING HONEST PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WANT TO BUY A PUP AND TRAIN IT .
ISSUE; BAD BREDDING IS MAKING GOOD PEOPLE NOT WANT TO BUY DOGS AND KEEP COONHUNTING ALIVE.

SOLUTION GET EVERYBODY YOU KNOW WITH HOUNDS TO STOP
I MEAN NATION WIDE. SELECTIVE BREDDING MUST TAKE ACTION NOW. TODAY ,TOMMOROW, AND FOREVER.
WHAT ABOUT OUR FUTURE ITS BAD ENUFF THAT LIBERIAL BUNCH WANTS OUR GUNS AND FREEDOM!!!!! WHY SHOULD A HOUND OWNER BREEDER WANT TO TAKE THE PURPOSE OUT OF WHAT A COONHOUND WAS BREDD TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE?
THEY MUST HAVE VOTED FOR BARRACK NIGER OBHAMA CAUSE IN MY OPOION THERE JUST AS BAD AS HIM AND THE REST OF THEM EDIOTS TAKEN EVERYTHING AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOUNDMEN STAND UP
HOUNDSMEN TAKE A STAND
HOUNDSMEN MAKE A CHANGE
HOUNDSMEN STOP BEFORE U RUIN IT ALL 2 GETHER!!!!!!!
HOUNDSMEN SHOOT EVERYTHING THAT DONT RUN TRACK TREE AND STAY PUT BY-GOD ITS HIGH TIME WE MAKE A CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you freaking crazy? There are good pups to buy out there if you want to buy one. There are CRAP pups out there if you wnat one of them. Just like it has allways been..... You might like the way they are headed and you might not BUT the top dogs of today are still top dogs........
Yesterdays top dogs might had been differant than todays BUT todays have been bred for todays needs.
Personaly I like both.
As far as our president there are white n---- in this world and you would be one.............. Don't judge a dog or person by there collor stupid............

Posted by ki4qpu on 02-24-2010 06:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MRC
But it's also the buyer's responsibility to know what they are buying....

So........I should interrogate and water board the breeder, because he's going to lie to me when I ask for the truth about his dogs. That's brilliant! It's sad a mans word means absolutely nothing anymore.

__________________
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Home of the pot lickers

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day! Teach a man to fish, and tomorrow he'll have all his buddies in your fishin' hole!

Posted by MRC on 02-24-2010 06:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ki4qpu
So........I should interrogate and water board the breeder, because he's going to lie to me when I ask for the truth about his dogs. That's brilliant! It's sad a mans word means absolutely nothing anymore.

No, you should go hunt with the female and male and preferably pups out of both.

Would you go buy a car from a car dealership without driving it? Or a house from a realtor without ever stepping foot in it?

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