UKC Forums - The Right To Retrieve

Pages (5): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 »
Show all 103 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- The Right To Retrieve (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=322188)

Posted by joey on 12-30-2017 11:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Retrieve

quote:
Originally posted by Wdb91
I don't know the rules where you live but I know here a game warden can go on anybody's property he wants to ,when he wants to,and how he wants to whether they like it or not..I'm just going off what an actual game warden and police officers have told me.and I don't think they are in the business of lying.

No he can't, that's a wife's tale told all over the country. He has to have probable cause just like any police officer. He has to have a warrent or suspension of a crime being committed just like any other officer. I used to believe the same thing because it's what I was always told but it's wrong.

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Posted by pamjohnson on 12-31-2017 03:07 PM:

game wardens and police officers do plenty of lying. sure is disappointing though.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 12-31-2017 03:49 PM:

joey

After over 30 years in Law Enforcement I beg to disagree with your post. PLEASE be careful in giving advice unless U know it to be a fact. No I'm not going to quote anything but Game wardens in GA have a lot more leway than others. And I know for a fact they do not need a search warrant to go on your property.

__________________
SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

Posted by blue blue on 12-31-2017 04:07 PM:

Surely

What game wardens can do in each state is printed in black and white somewhere. Why not find it in your state and post it on here and do away with all the speculation ?

__________________
Bob Turnbow 931-212-0069

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-31-2017 04:47 PM:

Yes ,
Here in Pa they have broader latitude than police.

Game Commission officers and Waterway Conservation officers have full police power to inspect, search, seize, and/or arrest.This police power is not simply for hunting and fishing violations. Commission officers possess the full power to arrest for any violations of the law, hunting and fishing related or not. Game Commission officers can even arrest for a DUI provided they obtain legal grounds for the stop and arrest while within the official scope of their employment.

A Game Commission officer has statewide policing powers. And as such is an agent of the government. The Game Commission officer is still restricted by both the federal and Pennsylvania constitutions. What comes into play is what is in the Game Code versus what is prohibited for police to do per the constitutions.

(The Pennsylvania Game Code), in Section 901(a)(8) provides Game Commission officers the authority to “conduct administrative inspections of persons, licenses and permits, firearms, ammunition and other implements of taking, game bags, game, meat poles, tags, clothing, waterfowl blinds, decoys, tree stands, immediate hunting locations, or any means of transportation used as blinds or hunting locations, any coolers or containers possessed at a hunting location when prima facie evidence of hunting exists.” Note that by the text this applies to even law abiding hunters and anglers who have done nothing wrong and have not even been suspected of doing anything wrong! Per the Pennsylvania Game Code, the only requirement to trigger this broad warrantless and suspicious-less activity is that the Game Commission officer have prima facie evidence of hunting.
Prima facie evidence of hunting includes “possession of any firearm, bow and arrow, raptor, trap or other device of any description usable for the purpose of hunting or taking game or wildlife; possession of the carcass or any part or parts of any game or wildlife; or pursuing any game or wildlife in any manner prohibited by this title or commission regulation.” This means, per the Game Code, that if there is prima facie evidence of hunting, the officer can search basically everything you have, including any container possessed at the hunting location, no matter how small.
Even if you are doing everything by the books, per the Game Code, the simple act of hunting can open you up to a search by a Game Commission officer – even when there is no evidence that any laws have been broken. This is what the Game Commission officer. But there is a great tension there between the Game Code and our constitutions.
A Game Commission officer may go upon any land or water, outside of buildings, except the curtilage of a home in performing his duties; may stop any transportation upon reasonable suspicion or road checkpoints; and search any person, car, clothes, bags, or other containers upon probable cause, consent, exigent circumstances, or other exceptions to the warrant requirement. 34 Pa.C.S. §901(a).

Pennsylvania law authorizes Commission officers to go “upon any land or water outside of buildings, except curtilage, posted or otherwise, in the performance of the officer’s duties.” This broad sweeping rule however does not permit a Commission officer to come into or near your house, your shed, or your yard near your house without probable cause. The PGC follows the Open Field Doctrine, which holds that open fields, even when posted with “No Trespassing” signs “do not provide the intimate setting for those intimate activities that the Amendment is intended to shelter from government or interference or surveillance. There is no societal interest in protecting the privacy of those activities, such as the cultivation of crops that occur in open fields.” Commonwealth v. Russo, 594 Pa. 119 (Pa. 2007). So while a Game Commission officer may, under the Open Fields Doctrine, go onto some private property, it does not give them carte blanch to go onto all of your private property. Where they can go without probable cause depends on how the court defines curtilage. Curtilage is generally considered to be your home and the area of land attached; however, what is or is not curtilage is often determined on a case by case basis.

In order for a Game Commission officer acting in the scope of his official duty to stop a vehicle, the officer must have reasonable suspicion or probable cause. In order for the officer to search the vehicle, he must have consent or possess probable cause. Further, if a Game Commission officer is no longer acting within the scope of his official duties, he cannot stop a vehicle even if he has reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

The Game Code makes it a crime when someone does not answer a Game Commission officer’s questions. But the Fifth Amendment right still applies making any attempt to cite someone for it unconstitutional.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-31-2017 05:40 PM:

We do not have a right to retrieve law here in Pa.

I AM NOT A LAWYER BUT, I WENT TO OUR COUNTY LAW LIBRARY AND DID EXTENSIVE RESEARCH .TAKE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK !
___________________________________

Pennsylvania Statutes Title 3 P.S. Agriculture § 459-601 § 459-601. Theft; poison; abandonment of animals by owner

(a) Dogs to be personal property.--All dogs are hereby declared to be personal property and subjects of theft.

________________________________________

SUBCHAPTER B
DEFINITION OF OFFENSES

§ 3921.__Theft by unlawful taking or disposition.
(a)__Movable property.--A person is guilty of theft if he unlawfully takes, or exercises unlawful control over, movable property of another with intent to deprive him
thereof.

______________________________________

Summary Of Pa Jurisprudence 2D
C.S 4:5 Possession in general
West Key Digest, property 10

The right of possession and control of property is implicit in its ownership(1), and an owner of personal property has the right to recover his or her property from the land of another (2).

When an entity having the power of eminent domain deprives a person of any of the legal rights or interests he or she has with respect to a tangible or definite thing ,there is a taking of that property.

Direct appropriation of possession or use is termed an actual taking, but when a person is substantially deprived of the rights of beneficial use and enjoyment ,(8) not directly, it has the consequence of a non-appropriative act by the entity and it is a defacto taking.

______________________________________

What does this mean? The way I comprehend it.
Maybe some of the lawyer hunters on here can chime in.

1) Dogs are personal property.
2) I can retrieve my dog from a landowners property because it is my personal property.
3) If they resist allowing me to retrieve my dog. Whether the property owner has taken control of my dog or not, they may possibly be charged with theft.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 12-31-2017 06:18 PM:

pat Bizich

Look at your last statement The commission did not make that law knowing it to be unconstitutional no you don't have to answer any questions at all to any officer BUT then you may be facing other charges such as Hampering the investigation of a crime Or what ever the statue of your state dictates. So the po po has some jurisdiction BUT DON'T MESS WITH THE G/WARDEN he marches to another beat.

__________________
SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

Posted by Doug Bowers on 12-31-2017 07:15 PM:

No right to retrieve in South Carolina

__________________
BROKEN ROAD KENNEL
"God bless the broken road"
Doug and Cleo Bowers

PKC SCH UKC DUAL GRAND TOUCAN SAM SEMEN

Also home to;ACHA LWSCH 'PR' Kentucky River Mundar ~ Sire is Kentucky River Rowdy (frozen Semen) BMOB 2013 Winter Classic
House's Lipper Hope x Kentucky River Rowdy
Broken Road's LITTLE TEXAS
LIPPERS STYLISH ROOSTER AT STUD
LIPPERS LITTLE TEXAS AT STUD.

"The WILL of God will never take you where the GRACE of God can not protect you

Posted by Wdb91 on 12-31-2017 07:27 PM:

Re: joey

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
After over 30 years in Law Enforcement I beg to disagree with your post. PLEASE be careful in giving advice unless U know it to be a fact. No I'm not going to quote anything but Game wardens in GA have a lot more leway than others. And I know for a fact they do not need a search warrant to go on your property.

Finally someone that knows what they are talking about as well...I go to church with the county game warden and I asked him this morning and he said what I already knew...he can go on anybody's property he wants to with or without thei permission..for instance he caught you last year for poaching then this year he will come walk your property anytime he wants to then may happen to wanna slip on over and check your neighbors property out as well and he can do so without permission and without a search warrant..he has more power than a state patrol does...

__________________
"If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is"

Posted by joey on 12-31-2017 11:35 PM:

Re: Re: joey

quote:
Originally posted by Wdb91
Finally someone that knows what they are talking about as well...I go to church with the county game warden and I asked him this morning and he said what I already knew...he can go on anybody's property he wants to with or without thei permission..for instance he caught you last year for poaching then this year he will come walk your property anytime he wants to then may happen to wanna slip on over and check your neighbors property out as well and he can do so without permission and without a search warrant..he has more power than a state patrol does...

No he doesn't have more power what they have is less of a burden of proof. No different than a police officer that searches your car without permission because he seen what "he thought was an illegal substance in plain view" If he inters a property it has to be for a reason. He can make up what ever reason he wants but he still has to have one. Someones dog being on your property is not illegal and not a reason for him to enter. Its sucks and I wish they could, Hardly any land owner would deny them access to go get it but if they do he cant go. Thats strait out of the mouth of the 3 wardens that are in my deer club. My original response was to the statement they can basically go anywhere and search anything. They cant.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-31-2017 11:42 PM:

Re: pat Bizich

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Look at your last statement The commission did not make that law knowing it to be unconstitutional no you don't have to answer any questions at all to any officer BUT then you may be facing other charges such as Hampering the investigation of a crime Or what ever the statue of your state dictates. So the po po has some jurisdiction BUT DON'T MESS WITH THE G/WARDEN he marches to another beat.

That is exactly what I am saying.
Game wardens have more latitude than regular police officers.
I could never figure out how they could search without p.c.
The statutes I quoted above explains it all and they get their p.c. just because you are hunting.

Posted by joey on 01-01-2018 02:10 AM:

Re: Re: pat Bizich

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
That is exactly what I am saying.
Game wardens have more latitude than regular police officers.
I could never figure out how they could search without p.c.
The statutes I quoted above explains it all and they get their p.c. just because you are hunting.

Yes Pat and a patrol officer can pull over on suspicion of drunk driving because your driving. I do not drink but I have been pulled over several times late at night coming in from hunting and accused of it.

Posted by mem on 01-01-2018 02:17 AM:

Louisiana right to retrieve

_Louisiana Revised Statutes 14:63 subsection F.:

F. The following persons may enter or remain upon immovable property of another, unless specifically forbidden to do so by the owner or other person with authority, either orally or in writing:
6) The owner of a domestic animal while in the sole process of merely retrieving his domestic animal from immovable property and not having a firearm or other weapon on his person.
Also another law.

_2006 Louisiana Laws - RS 14:67.2 — Theft of animals

§67.2. _Theft of animals

A. _Theft of animals is the misappropriation, killing, or taking of any animal which belongs to another, either without consent of the other to the misappropriation or taking, or by means of fraudulent conduct, practices, or representations. _An intent to deprive the other permanently of the animal or an intent to ransom it for the purpose of extorting money or favor is essential.

B.(1) _Whoever commits the crime of theft of animals, when the misappropriation or taking amounts to a value of five hundred dollars or more, shall be imprisoned, with or without hard labor, for not more than ten years, or may be fined not more than three thousand dollars, or both.

Posted by Wdb91 on 01-01-2018 03:13 AM:

Re: Re: Re: joey

quote:
Originally posted by joey
No he doesn't have more power what they have is less of a burden of proof. No different than a police officer that searches your car without permission because he seen what "he thought was an illegal substance in plain view" If he inters a property it has to be for a reason. He can make up what ever reason he wants but he still has to have one. Someones dog being on your property is not illegal and not a reason for him to enter. Its sucks and I wish they could, Hardly any land owner would deny them access to go get it but if they do he cant go. Thats strait out of the mouth of the 3 wardens that are in my deer club. My original response was to the statement they can basically go anywhere and search anything. They cant.

All I can say is your county's game wardens are not like ours...if a landowner around here refuses entry to a dnr he's gonna go anyway whether they like it or not all he has to say is he has a suspicion of something whether he's serious about it or not nobody knows, I think things are a lot different in Arkansas than they are up here in blue ridge georgia..or the game wardens down there aren't as rough as the one up here..

__________________
"If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is"

Posted by shadinc on 01-01-2018 05:10 AM:

It doesn't do much good to have the right to retrieve if the land owner thinks he has the right to kill anything on his property.

Posted by hillbilly56 on 01-02-2018 02:02 PM:

if my dog gets on posted ground im gonna got get it but i growed up around here and im the only coon hunter in this area few new people may come hollerin at me i just holler back tell them they best get back in thier house nobody messes with any dog i own no bs just a true fact i have no use for wardens most are just plain dirty do about anything to get you on a false charge state gives them way to much power and they abuse it jmo there are a few good 1s but they are far & inbetwen

Posted by LSO1103 on 01-02-2018 03:03 PM:

Kentucky

No right to retrieve in Kentucky. Only way is with land owner permission. Not the game warden, state police, city police, or me as a deputy sheriff can enter private property to retrieve game or hounds without landowner permission. Back when I worked night shift, I've stood on the side of the road with coon hunters whose dogs were on private land. Land owner wouldn't let any of us go get them. I stood there with them until they finally got their dogs to come to them. As a law enforcement officer and a coon hunter, I really wish we had a right to retrieve law in Kentucky.

Posted by 4play on 01-02-2018 03:56 PM:

JMO

I'm going to get my hound with or with out right to retrieve.
By the time DNR or Police get there I'll be back/out.

I'll face the 'music' then.

Done plenty of walking with my light off too

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 01-02-2018 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hillbilly56
if my dog gets on posted ground im gonna got get it but i growed up around here and im the only coon hunter in this area few new people may come hollerin at me i just holler back tell them they best get back in thier house nobody messes with any dog i own no bs just a true fact i have no use for wardens most are just plain dirty do about anything to get you on a false charge state gives them way to much power and they abuse it jmo there are a few good 1s but they are far & inbetwen

I agree, I despise all GW, I won’t ever call them, if you see one coming your gonna get a ticket for something.

Posted by pamjohnson on 01-03-2018 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
I agree, I despise all GW, I won’t ever call them, if you see one coming your gonna get a ticket for something.

x2 even a poacher helps us farmers out but not a gw

Posted by DwayneWhite on 01-03-2018 04:37 PM:

No Right to Retrieve in Mississippi!
Guess you better have a handle on your dog.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-03-2018 04:54 PM:

Game Wardens around here are a little nicer. If they give you a ticket, then you have done something wrong. They are pretty hard on deer hunters but only see us coonhunters as a nuisance. They only come out when/if someone calls them and complains. And they will let you slip off unless the landowner really pitches a fit or if they have you "blacklisted" in their computer. And we have a couple of cops that are or were coonhunters when younger so they sometimes run interference for a poor old guy out "just trying to catch his dog". Now don't ask me how I know this.

Posted by shadinc on 01-03-2018 05:31 PM:

I've been checked by game wardens about 40 times while hunting and fishing. Never ticketed.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-03-2018 05:42 PM:

Oh my goodness, I have been ticketed and I have been "warned" and in several states. Once I was even "cautioned" in Michigan by a city policeman to slow down while speeding and running late for a deadline. He saw my dogs and told me that he had a Redbone Coonhound as a kid.

Posted by halfmaxwell on 01-04-2018 05:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by longshot
Oklahoma does... I was at Battle of the Breeds 3 weeks ago and three game wardens walked into the buliding just as we were about to draw out our cast.

What I heard next was simply unbelievable !! The Warden in charge took the microphone in front of probably 300 people and said ,,,

'''' I know alot of you guys are from out of state and I want to welcome you to Oklahoma and we want you to enjoy you hunt while here. You DO NOT need a hunting licence to participate in this hunt AND if your dogs get on property where you DO NOT have permission , GO GET THEM ! You do not need to permission to retrieve your dogs in Oklahoma.. If anyone gives you a hard time , CALL ME and I will be there in a matter of minutes and your dogs will be retrieved. '''''

The Warden then gave out his PH. number , which many people copied down and a large Roar of applause erupted from the large crowd as he left the stage...

Thats the way it should be EVERYWHERE !!!

Oklahoma does not have the right to retrieve escort or not. if a landowner does not want you on thier property they dont have to let you. You can and will be ticketed for trespass, doesent matter if its the game warden. oklahoma highway patrol or local/county officials. This is something all dog hunters , duck,bird,hog,rabbit,coon and stock dog owners lost some years ago.

__________________
Charles Folsom
918-448-7225

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:54 AM.

Pages (5): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 »
Show all 103 posts from this thread on one page