UKC Forums - Black and Tan Colored Redbones

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Black and Tan Colored Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=292859)

Posted by Lee Stocking on 07-26-2010 01:06 PM:

Ill share a few pictures of what I have seen. Strains does not matter in the black dogs. The same thing happens with Dobies, Rotts and Min Pinchers. It is the gene in the black and tan colored dogs.
I cull them if I have them now.

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NTCH ACHA WReserve Team Troubles Trippy
Black & Tan

Posted by Bluedogman on 07-26-2010 01:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Stocking
Ill share a few pictures of what I have seen. Strains does not matter in the black dogs. The same thing happens with Dobies, Rotts and Min Pinchers. It is the gene in the black and tan colored dogs.
I cull them if I have them now.

Aww.. that's too purdy to cull! J/k

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Johnny Williams

Posted by riproarinkennel on 07-26-2010 05:07 PM:

Re: Re: I would calm down

quote:
Originally posted by s/s

NOT TRYING TO BE SMART, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE REDBONES THROW A BETTER LOOKING BLACK-N-TAN.

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Posted by brady8687 on 07-26-2010 05:39 PM:

LMAO!!

Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 07-26-2010 08:21 PM:

Re: LMAO

quote:
Originally posted by riproarinkennel
ACTUALLY ... IT WAS FOR SOMEONE WHO SENT ME A PM ABOUT BLACK-N-TAN REDBONES.

DOES THE OFFER STILL STAND ? LOL.

Sure. I'm a man of my word. Besides, anything to help out another coonhunter!

Stocking,
That is a nice houndy lookin pup. It looks liek the litter I raised about 15 years ago for a guy. All 10 looked alot like the one in your picture.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by roughcreek on 07-26-2010 10:11 PM:

i'm gona bust a few bubbles on this subjuct. the truth about these dogs. i know from the 70's & i garrentee before that. alot of people bred red & b&t, walkers & blueticks & any other cross they wanted to make or even the old sheperd down the road. it wasnt uncommon to hear of someone breed a little bird dog in to improove hound nose. if you got a good dog out of what ever, you could & dont let nobody fool ya. go to any dog trade & get what ever papers fit that dog or dog to fit your papers !! this went on all over the country !!

i remember when i was a kid. they had a trade day in litchfield ky & there would be HUNDEREDS of dogs every wendsday. dog traders would be there from all over & have books of dog papers. buy a dog & thumb through & get what ever kind of paper you want !!

this is a dirty little secret that nobody wants to talk about from the GOOD OL DAYS !! if you wasnt anound then, you aint got a clue how much this went on !! & if you was around then we just dont publicize it or act like it didnt happen !!

yes there was reputable breeders but when pups & dogs left & wound up on the trade block you didnt have a clue if you was getting the right papers or not. hell i'v seen nite champion papers for sale back then. ol fido could get killed by a car or just up & die but his papers lived on !!

yep i was a poor kid that its all i could do was scrap up 5 or 10 or 20 dollors & hitch a ride to litchfield to get me a coondog. this was common practice all over the country.

NOW YOU KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT WHY YOU SEE OFF COLORED PUPS FROM TIME TO TIME !!

Posted by Bluedogman on 07-26-2010 10:26 PM:

Hush man! We got live in a dream world you know!

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Posted by blackbuck on 07-27-2010 02:01 AM:

Does anyone know if Janet had the DNA test done on her pups? Very curious about what she found out.

Posted by Tim Trone on 08-28-2011 08:32 PM:

this is out of two redbones . pr dogs

H was born the same color as he is now

Posted by WORMY#1 on 08-29-2011 12:12 AM:

years ago i remember my uncle use to tell me he had a red bitch an no matter what red male he bred her to she always threw atleast 1 b&t pup. i seen 1 in a litter he had, also new a fella that had a plott bitch that threw 2 pertty redbone pups. just makes you wonder what does your hound really go back to?????

Posted by clhowe on 11-27-2013 04:57 AM:

my redbones gave birth to two black and tans

My full blooded redbones gave birth to 2 beautiful black and tans. Is this normal ?

Posted by thecoondawg76 on 11-29-2013 04:46 AM:

Re: my redbones gave birth to two black and tans

quote:
Originally posted by clhowe
My full blooded redbones gave birth to 2 beautiful black and tans. Is this normal ?

No especially if they are newborns. Often the old saddle shows up in young pups and then dissappears. However, if they have b&t markings past just the saddle they will likely keep the b&t color. Seen and heard this a good amount in heavy Timber Chopper and hence Famous Amos and ones close to this breeding. Heard all kinds of stuff why but what I can tell you is a bigger than usual amount have these hounds in common. Old timers will tell you the same.

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And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

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'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

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'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..

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Posted by clhowe on 11-29-2013 05:27 AM:

Thank you for your time. Right now the a very black and tan. But they're only 6 days old.

Posted by jdgher on 11-30-2013 03:06 AM:

My thoughts so far

Just what I have seen, read and heard so far, tells me this.
The real dark brown with black on the ears and tail, black markings in different areas etc.., usually turn into dark red dogs that will have some "acceptable" black on them.
The coal black ones with tan markings will be high tan black and tans for ever.
I have a litter now, with some that are red, some that are real dark red with black markings. I think they will all be fine. They are almost 3 weeks old and getting more red all the time. None of mine have any white on them anywhere. They are from PR dogs for many generations.
I've seen throw backs to the old days before, and I know others have too. It happens with Redbones. All Redbones go back to grade dogs years ago. In the early 1900's Blacktans and Redbones were called saddlebacks and from the saddlebacks they selectively bred to make the 2 breeds we have today. Also all up through the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's grade dogs were still common place and those were used to produce some of what we have today. Black is a dominant color, so its no wonder the black genes have been able to hang in there and pop up from time to time. I expect it will always show up especially with dark red being such a popular color with many folks. I figure if breeders keep breeding the real dark red ones, the black will be more likely to keep showing up.
Anyway that is what 25+ years of hunting redbones has taught me. I've learned there is no use in worrying about it.
With the new cross bred catagory over at $kc, there may be a place for those throw backs.

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Posted by Troy Arnold on 11-30-2013 03:47 AM:

So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

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Posted by RED REBELS on 11-30-2013 09:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tja51horns
So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

I would say none at all as it doesn't meet breed standards but I guess you could register it as a Redbone... But it won't meet breed standards

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Posted by clhowe on 11-30-2013 10:08 AM:

I read that they will only allow all red and red with some white on the chest and feet. But not the black and tans at all. I dont know how to put pics on here or I would post pics of my week old black and tan eedbones. They are beautiful.

Posted by oklared on 11-30-2013 01:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tja51horns
So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

HE WOULD HAVE TO BE SINGLE REGESTERD IN WHAT EVER BREED STANDARD THAT HE MEETS

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Posted by Riffecreek on 11-30-2013 01:24 PM:

i want one

I want a female pup... b&t colored redbone!! My daughter's teacher said she could have it DNA profiled..

And I want it for a project breeder..

Posted by clhowe on 11-30-2013 01:39 PM:

I have a one week old female b&t female pup. She is not registered but both parents are 100% full blooded redbones.

Posted by RedScorpion on 11-30-2013 02:24 PM:

It occurs because of "recessive black." It doesn't necessarily have to come from a black and tan. The "recessive black" (in this case with a tan trim modifier) can come from any dog carrying this recessive. Pups are only black and tan (between two redbones) when BOTH parents carry the recessive gene. I have read that a certain redbone stud throws black and tans---can't happen because both parents must carry the recessive.

No big deal, it's just a color---just shows the breed has not been purged of unwanted recessives...hard to do when people are mixing in other breeds here and there. In this case it's easy because it's visual and the dog does not meet breed standards. Therefore it cannot be registered.

GOOGLE it and read for yourself.

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Posted by Riffecreek on 11-30-2013 02:36 PM:

exactly

But the question is what other qualities are carried by the recessive gene.. and what happens when you breed TO the recessive gene side with a male of the same breed that doesn't carry it.. also when and where did it come from.

We researched a breeding of partridge that threw albino offspring for 5 years.. there is something in my mind telling me they are something worth looking into!!

Posted by berger on 12-01-2013 03:59 AM:

Re: this is out of two redbones . pr dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Trone

H was born the same color as he is now

Proof is in the color I was wondering how those redbones could tree a coon. Ole Tennessee Lead put the walkers on the map, I wonder what BNT put the coon treeing ability into the redbones

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Posted by thecoondawg76 on 12-02-2013 05:41 PM:

Seen all kinds of color variations in several coonhound breeds.

However, according to UKC unless they meet breed standards they can't be registered. It has nothing to do with DNA which is going to be right chances are. It has everything to do with appearance.
How many have seen a Chocolate color Bluetick with 3 gens of nothing but blue colored parents? It happens and often becuase there is some single parent male or female overlapping in both lines. Some are breed throw backs, some are old blood throwbacks, but it can even be a single parent overlapping throwback. What about those grey bones? Same sort of thing.

Posted by oklared on 12-02-2013 06:46 PM:

THERE WERE SOME POPULAR BLACK AND TAN STUDS THAT WERE USED BY ONE OR TWO OR THREE BIG TIME RED BREEDERS THAT INJECTED SOME OF THE BLK INTO SOME REDS FOR WHAT EVER REASON ONLY THEY KNOW

THAT IS LIKE I READ ABOUT TIMBER CHOPPER BEING SUCH A DOMINATE REPRODUCER THAT GUYS BRED EVEN WALKERS TO HIM

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