UKC Forums - John Wick Looking for Preacher Fans

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-- John Wick Looking for Preacher Fans (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=132383)

Posted by Dan Dogs on 02-03-2007 03:26 AM:

no,

thought you said forty was the best you ever coupled!!!lol

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Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 03:28 AM:

no in fact few would. but it just seems like genetics should allow a certain % to be better. all of the other factors of who trained and how muddle the whole study of dog genetics and training. and i do believe the great ones are somewhat a fluke but couldnt a few of their pups be flukes to?

Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 03:30 AM:

dan what was 40's pedigree?
john, sorry to pollute your post with small talk, but i guess thats why this is called a chat room.

Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 03:31 AM:

if u own a stud dog and u are not reaching to find something better then the stud than u are missing the point of coonhunting and dont deserve to be called a coonhunter ben wants dogs better than the stud every one wants one better than what they already got i hope or why are we doing this

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Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 03:36 AM:

hey jim dont rile this up. i respect josh's point of view and really am curious about this opinion. thanks.

Posted by Dan Dogs on 02-03-2007 03:37 AM:

forty mile

had some preacher blood in her, and some sport dog, arnolds sport i think.

Posted by josh on 02-03-2007 03:39 AM:

I agree with you Ben, genetics should allow a few to be better.....If your doing a good job as a breeder.

When your already at the top, its difficult to go higher....When your sitting at the bottom, there is much more room for improvement and it is much easier to improve.

IMO the really good ones are almost always flukes....

Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 03:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
hey jim dont rile this up. i respect josh's point of view and really am curious about this opinion. thanks.

ben im not trying to do anything but if u are a coonhunter your always looking for something better than the dogs u own and hopefully its out of your own dog is all i was saying

Posted by B HUBBARD 40962 on 02-03-2007 03:43 AM:

you guys need to get a room

chat room that is lol

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 02-03-2007 03:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
When your already at the top, its difficult to go higher....When your sitting at the bottom, there is much more room for improvement and it is much easier to improve.

The rule of diminished returns. If you are promoting a good stud and an outstanding breeding progam, I believe that the average dog you produce should be better than the average dogs that it came from. That is why pedigree stacking taking into account littermates is so very important. If you are basing your program on those few and far between "freaks" with a hollow history, those "hollows" will start to show up in generations to come.

A freak is something you cannot plan to produce, better dogs is something you need to plan to produce.

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Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 03:48 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by josh
I agree with you Ben, genetics should allow a few to be better.....If your doing a good job as a breeder.

When your already at the top, its difficult to go higher....When your sitting at the bottom, there is much more room for improvement and it is much easier to improve.

IMO the really good ones are almost always flukes.... [/ i think the emphasis is on "a few" and if the great dog is a fluke it would be impossible for it to reproduce better than itself. agreed.

Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 03:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
[QUOTE]Originally posted by josh
I agree with you Ben, genetics should allow a few to be better.....If your doing a good job as a breeder.

When your already at the top, its difficult to go higher....When your sitting at the bottom, there is much more room for improvement and it is much easier to improve.

IMO the really good ones are almost always flukes.... [/ i think the emphasis is on "a few" and if the great dog is a fluke it would be impossible for it to reproduce better than itself. agreed.

no every good dog came from another great dog before yall start im not trying to get any one mad just making a point is all lol

Posted by josh on 02-03-2007 03:56 AM:

Maybe, lol

Ben, You and I both could name a several very good dogs that never reproduced anything at all....happens all the time.

Just for discussion sake, I dont recall Sackett JR doing a great deal of winning.....not saying he wasnt a coondog, but I believe his 'freak' tallents were far greater in the breeding pen than the woods.

Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 03:57 AM:

briar, i think you are right about the averages of the littermates in most instances, but on occasion a dog comes along that throws one trait in a very high percentage of his pups and that trait stays with the bloodlines for many generations . take rat attack for example, it is no suprise that his pups are tree dogs. i mean most jr grandpups are, but the trait that sets so many of his pups apart is their style of hunting at an absolute dead run til they find a workable track. they dont all operate the same but a high percentage are like this and they win because of it. this trait is a bit of a fluke from jr grandpups but the rest of the traits are on average similar to other jr grandpups. i think this may be an argument for what john is trying to do here in seeking out preacher pups. i just wish he were looking more for a specific hunting trait than a specific color pattern. in my opinion this would be a more noble cause.

Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 04:01 AM:

josh while jr never was well known in the comp circuit he must have been a pretty good dog for frank to be hunting him as much as he was. i bet he would have won his fair share. yes indeed we do know some pretty nice local females in fact (who shall remain nameles) that never reproduced well. was it that they couldnt or were they mated poorly?

Posted by josh on 02-03-2007 04:02 AM:

Ben, From what I have heard, Preacher was a tight mouthed dog that didnt do a lot of tracking, just treed coon and made it look easy.

Maybe John will come back sometime and enlighten us?

Posted by josh on 02-03-2007 04:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
josh while jr never was well known in the comp circuit he must have been a pretty good dog for frank to be hunting him as much as he was. i bet he would have won his fair share. yes indeed we do know some pretty nice local females in fact (who shall remain nameles) that never reproduced well. was it that they couldnt or were they mated poorly?

Dang Man, I dunno....

I hate making excuses for things like this...its just too easy and they are always many.

Posted by truly on 02-03-2007 04:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
Ben, From what I have heard, Preacher was a tight mouthed dog that didnt do a lot of tracking, just treed coon and made it look easy.

Maybe John will come back sometime and enlighten us?

i would like it if he would. that sounds more like the beginning of the stylish line. i had been under the impression that they were more track dogs than tree dogs but i think you know that history better than i so i will take your word for it.

but john- please do enlighten us.

Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 04:12 AM:

u guys are not calling out john wick are u lol he knows more about dogs then you guys have forgotten about dogs lol

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 02-03-2007 04:50 AM:

jim i think you ment to say he has forgot more about a dog then you guys know................lol

Posted by Dwils on 02-03-2007 04:51 AM:

check this out

i have never heard of these dogs-- old pedigree of a dog we owned back in the day

***************GRNITECH FRAZIERS RED RIVER JOKER

**********GRNITECH MID-WEST DOGWOOD

***************"PR" NIPPS DAISY MAY

"PR"JOES JAKE(SIRE)

***************NITECH CHAPMANS QUICKSAND THUNDER

**********"PR" MILLS QUICK MARIE

***************"PR" CHAPMANS QUICKSAND ALICE

"PR" WILSONS HARDTIMES LUKE---DOB 12/10/87

***************GRNITECH GREGGS BANJO STYLE

**********GRNITECH WICKS STYLISH BANJO

***************"PR" MC GATHAS SADIE

"PR" BEST'S TREEING JANIE(DAM)

***************"PR" WICKS LITTLE SCAMP

**********"PR" LIDDELLS CHER

***************"PR" WICKS CRICKET BEE

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Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 04:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
jim i think you ment to say he has forgot more about a dog then you guys know................lol

lol u are right my bad i was helping a freind move and its like 20 below with the wind chill, minds froze but not the first time thats happen

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 02-03-2007 04:56 AM:

lol......i had heard that before thats how i new...........

Posted by J. Hill on 02-03-2007 04:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokin-1-mo
lol......i had heard that before thats how i new...........

lol im a little slow yall should know that by now, but my new years resalution was to be nicer so im trying

Posted by honalieh on 02-03-2007 06:59 AM:

Preacher Dogs!

A long time ago, I drew a couple of Preacher dogs in the hunts (I remember one being out of Texas County Reverend). I beat them in the hunts, because my dog was quicker. I was hunting an outstanding dog!

I loved the Preacher dogs I hunted with. I beat them on speed. But, the style of the Preacher dogs impressed me. They weren't the quickest dogs, but they had a beautiful style!

I don't think the Preacher dogs were the ultimate competition dogs. But, they were beautiful pleasure dogs. They weren't the fastest. They weren't the fanciest! But, they did the job RIGHT! Struck their tracks as they came to them (coon tracks), worked them out, located beautifully, and broke over to a average hard tree chop. Just did a wonderful job! Beautiful dogs!

I'm not a Preacher man. I'm not a Walker man. But, I love coon dogs that do the job the right way. I loved what I saw out of the Preacher dogs. They were true coon dogs , and pleasure dogs! I loved their style!!!

If you like coonhunting, you'd love the Preacher dogs. If you're strictly competition, the Preacher dogs are not for you, they're better for coonhunters.

I loved them, but not for competition! Just for coonhunting. If you're a coonhunter, you'd love the Preacher dogs!

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