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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Scratch Mentality (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928519066)
quote:
Originally posted by ole hoss
I went to one big ukc hunt!! Purina Nationals!! I felt like I was a fish out of water!! We honestly stood in a feild for 3-4 mins with our lights off waiting to squaw on a tree 3 dogs was on and mine was still running through yonder, I insisted they could squaw, shake, shoot whatever they wanted to do but let’s not stand here looking at each other!! Next night a black dog trees a coon on a fence row and mine is split down from him. We walk off the tree heck I start the minute and him and the judge go to talking and he says he’s going to just lead his in to mine)??!!?! Said it was his option? What kind of crap is that? The rule book over here is NUTTS!! Explain to me why a dog that gets to a tree at 4:59 deserves 75? No don’t waste your breath because weather it’s mine or yours if it’s that dad gone slow it needs culled!! If it came just to say hello it needs work!! Jmo and that’s why I don’t go to them!! I use them to train my dogs at a local level and to me that’s about all there good for!! They get the rules right and get there money right and I’ll be there!! The dog that trees the most coons should win in my opinion no matter the kc and the rules need to make it where the dog that trees the most coons has that opportunity!!
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Dean Jamerson
Agreed.
The problem is deciding what "most" people want.
Problem is people making it hard.
I've hunted in the hunts for 30 years. I've seen people scratched for arguing, I've seen them scratched for off game, minused out and dog fights. Everyone of those offences deserves being scratched, but in 30 years I've never seen anyone scratched for anything else. I've seen them warned for a few things but that's it. Four pages of comments suggest there is a epidemic that doesn't exist. They are scratching offences because they are against the rules, what are you supposed to do with them?
Lets take the shinning before time, its a rule you have to have so how else do you enforce it? People have a problem seeing people get scratched for squalling at the tree, its a rule and has to be enforced until its changed. These are competition hunts and are set up with rules to follow if you don't follow them you are no longer part of the competition. I have judged a lot of cast and I have reminded guys that squalled to early but if I do it and get scratched then it is my fault. I'm not going to be upset with anyone but myself.
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Michael Rosamond
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Scratching some one for squalling is getting a cheap win . You need to get better dog.
quote:Is scratching a dog for fighting or treeing a possum cheap? Which rules are cheap and where can we find a list of rules in order of cheapness? Do we decide for ourselves which rules to follow?
Originally posted by H DOG
Scratching some one for squalling is getting a cheap win . You need to get better dog.
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Donald Bergeron
If you don't think you'll get scratched for a scratchable offense then you'd better stick to pleasure hunting. Good old boys have died out. People paying to hunt are trying to win. If your buddies son is on his first hunt and on your cast and you want to give him a break there are two more that don't. Sportmanship and honor are almost nonexistent anymore. It's all about winning.
quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Is scratching a dog for fighting or treeing a possum cheap? Which rules are cheap and where can we find a list of rules in order of cheapness? Do we decide for ourselves which rules to follow?
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Changes
Now is the time to change these Rules, put the common sense that is lacking into action. Eliminating this foolishness from the RULES is a hugh step forward to achieving a true champion in our Hunts. We do not need a deserving dog or handler being scratched for such minor offenses, we need to focus on the best dog winning every time. I remember a guy loosing the UKC WORLD HUNT by pecking on a den tree and getting scratched. It happened in the final 4 cast and he could not be beat score wise, but another handler complained that he beat in a den tree ( Really) and per the RULES he was scratched and a lesser dog won the Hunt. Was this equitable and did the crime fit the punishment? Well, per the RULES it happened, did he make a mistake? Yes, should he have got scratched? Did his action really deserve this, or should his dog have been scratched, when he was clearly the best dog in the cast and could not be beat. Emotions are high in situations like this and anyone can make a silly mistake, but a true winner should never be decided on something like that. JMO. Dave
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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses
Re: Changes
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Now is the time to change these Rules, put the common sense that is lacking into action. Eliminating this foolishness from the RULES is a hugh step forward to achieving a true champion in our Hunts. We do not need a deserving dog or handler being scratched for such minor offenses, we need to focus on the best dog winning every time. Dave
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Michael Rosamond
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http://www.sunspotlights.com/
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PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too
Michael Rosemond
Lol. Thinking you have the best dog is one thing, proving it is another thing. Let the winner be decided by scoring coons and not by a silly thing like the handler shining to early or squalling to soon, eliminate these rules. Dave
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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses
The deciding factor is when your hunting at a local hunt for a win twords ntch or hunting for $10,000+ and your job depends on you winning .......... me thinks !!
Tar
Tar
You are correct, but whether it's a local hunt or a World Championship hunt, the best dog should win by treeing the most coons, not by default over some petty rule like hitting a den tree , shining to quick, or squalling to soon. Get rid of these rules, or modify them to give a warning on first offense, scratching is not the answer to get rid of the competition. Dave
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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses
Dave Not Every One does it to get rid of the competition Some Do It Because THATS WHAT THE DA$$ RULES SAY DO! No Cast Can decide to Change A Rule.
I agree the rule needs Changed But Shame on You to keep posting that people dose this because they need a better dog! Most Hate to enforce the rule But It Is What It Is! Iv only seen One person scratched for this bad rule and that was my handler At the zones.
Re: Tar
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
You are correct, but whether it's a local hunt or a World Championship hunt, the best dog should win by treeing the most coons, not by default over some petty rule like hitting a den tree , shining to quick, or squalling to soon. Get rid of these rules, or modify them to give a warning on first offense, scratching is not the answer to get rid of the competition. Dave
Tar
I agree 100 percent, me and you would probably never win thinking like that and that's okay with me and you. If we did win, we could be proud of our dogs and ourselves. I know that is WAY more important than a tainted win by default, at least to me. Rally to! Dave
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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses
Re: Tar
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I agree 100 percent, me and you would probably never win thinking like that and that's okay with me and you. If we did win, we could be proud of our dogs and ourselves. I know that is WAY more important than a tainted win by default, at least to me. Rally to! Dave
Re: Scratch Mentality
quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
How many ways to get scratched that have nothing to do with misconduct or aggression issues...
I read the polls on getting rid of the squalling rule or the silent on track rule and it leaves me scratching my head. I see one major issue and that is those who look for and hope for a reason to scratch a cast member instead of beating them by out coondoging.
I have an idea, if you would like for cast to be more enjoyable get rid of the scratch mentality this kennel club suffers much to often from and encourage the passing of some of these changes.
If your concern is getting beat by someone who blew on a squaller or is hunting a silent dog you have a whole lot bigger issues to worry about.
I also read a comment about breed standards... if that is a concern maybe what should be addressed is that the typical show dog looks nothing like the dogs in the parking lot for the hunt not the other way around.
__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...
Re: Changes
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Now is the time to change these Rules, put the common sense that is lacking into action. Eliminating this foolishness from the RULES is a hugh step forward to achieving a true champion in our Hunts. We do not need a deserving dog or handler being scratched for such minor offenses, we need to focus on the best dog winning every time. Dave
Re: Re: Changes
quote:
Originally posted by JAH
Just because it won its cast does not mean its the best dog.It just had a better night then the other dogs maybe.And to use your logic of how getting awarded for a cast win now instead of the old way seems to be better then sliced bread.How do you know the dog that won its cast is the best dog since it never hunted against all the dogs? Heck do it like fox hunters do at their trials turn all of them loose at once together.Using some peoples logic that would be only way for the best dog to win.Yes I know that sound dumb.But so does a lot of the crap some others are saying on here. Or heck let anything go no rules make it a free for all.Might as well go all out on stupid while you are at it.I've seen two dogs scratched in my life.One minused out the other one the hour got it.That was back in the 1990's.
__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...
Re: Re: Re: Changes
quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
.ideally, when a dog is titled then that dog should be a dog worthy of breeding one day...
It should be about identifying the best dogs first...and winning second...
quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
The deciding factor is when your hunting at a local hunt for a win twords ntch or hunting for $10,000+ and your job depends on you winning .......... me thinks !!
Tar
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
The man hunting for a living and 10k is usually easier to deal with than the guy hunting a local hunt for a win towards Nt Ch
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
The man hunting for a living and 10k is usually easier to deal with than the guy hunting a local hunt for a win towards Nt Ch
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