UKC Forums - Let's Discuss Performance Program

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-- Let's Discuss Performance Program (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928506868)

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-20-2018 03:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blaze2014
400 to pay up s.s. for how long? 6 mo right? Just pay cast winners at end of night and drop the program.

No it’s $400 per year.

Mr Tim.

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-20-2018 03:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
I’m interested in how that would work telling stud owners they can only breed one female a year? Explain how that would work?

Mr Tim.

Sires not in Performance Program could be allowed 1 litter per year of Performance pups at $200 + mandatory pay up litter.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-20-2018 03:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Sires not in Performance Program could be allowed 1 litter per year of Performance pups at $200 + mandatory pay up litter.

Ok I understand what your saying, but why would anyone pay $200 an only get to Performance one liter when they can pay $100 and breed as many as they want?

Mr Tim.

Posted by pigsit on 07-20-2018 03:49 PM:

I would agree with extending the pay up date past a year old, add an extra fee, whatever, but make it able to pay as the dog matures and makes a hound. It seems a lot of people don't understand the current pay up process, we should make it easier to understand and as Jen said, make it a part of the puppy paper, rather than send an extra paper with them.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 07-20-2018 03:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Ok I understand what your saying, but why would anyone pay $200 an only get to Performance one liter when they can pay $100 and breed as many as they want?

Mr Tim.

Not everyone owns a stud when the $100 window is open. A lot of people buy other guys studs to promote or may not have intention of breeding and then win a bunch and people become interested. Whatever the reason it will add a few hundred dollars to the pot for each litter..

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Posted by Blaze2014 on 07-20-2018 03:57 PM:

If paid by Sept something it's 400, caps at 700. Which yes is higher than ukc program, but I don't think is a good comparison. I can register just regular and go hunt and get paid that night, for the life of my dog, and not have no program fees to pay and a 2 point cap limit, and get paid for cast wins and all at world hunt. Now I'm not saying anything nobody don't know, hunt what ya want. But if ukc wants to be top dog in coonhound world, better straighten things out quickly.

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Posted by MR.RATMAN on 07-20-2018 06:20 PM:

If a litter is not out of a performance stud charge $200 to performance that litter and that $$ goes into the program. I dont see how that would hurt the program,, but help it out..

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Posted by Jparker on 07-20-2018 07:51 PM:

Ok make the litter applications 50 to 100 each litter at birth of pup that would be paid by the dams owner now when the pups are sold pup papers and pp register papers should be giving to the dams owner from ukc then handed to new owner of said pup when paid for now for it to register to hunt by 6 months old the new owner has pay the fee of 50 to 100 whatever to register it in pp but they have to pay that fee each year to keep it in the program for it to hunt and allow a top winners hunt off to win the pot at the end of each year and do a 20/20 or 25/25 the rest stays in the pot to split between owner of stud and hunt winner next year and do breed hunts to
Pups 6 months 100 for the life of the dog
6 months to a year 150 to 250 life of the dog
Over a year 300 to 450 life of the dog
Just someone on the outside looking in

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 07-20-2018 08:03 PM:

does anyone have any idea on what the percent of dogs entered in local hunts are performance and those that are not?

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Posted by joey on 07-20-2018 08:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
does anyone have any idea on what the percent of dogs entered in local hunts are performance and those that are not?

No idea how many are hunted but Allen said a while back that it was around 30% of litters were performance. I cant remember the exact number but it something like that.

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 07-20-2018 08:18 PM:

Just pointing out that my question has not been answered.

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Here’s one of my questions...

What is the AVERAGE lifetime earnings of a performance pup?

Sorry for asking and pretty sure I won’t get an official answer.

This program is good for the breeder that wants bragging rights. It is not a money making program. Well, other than UKC making money. I think their administration fees are too high for this program. I understand they are a business and need to make money. I just think they are taking more than their share.

IMO their business makes plenty of money off registration. They need to come up with something that pays hunters and gets more registration. They draw more people to registering dogs they make more. Instead they just try to get more money out of the same people.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-20-2018 10:30 PM:

Everyone will benefit from changes including UKC. Elimanating checks under $50, slight increases to Sire fees, allowing 1 time breedings & allowing 12-18 mo. old pups to participate should add $20,000-$30,000 yearly..

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-21-2018 12:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
It’s only $400 to pay up a SS sire, $200 to SS a liter that’s not from a SS stud.

Mr Tim.

They give an early bird discount to pay up for $400 for the year that has to be paid before the end of September then it increases a hundred every month up to $700 for the year if not paid by November. You can also pay $350 for each 6mo term if you miss out on the early bird special. Yes on the $200 a litter to make pups SS eligible from non SS studs, still have to have DNA profile done on both the sire and dam.

I do not see the UKC performance program loosing money by allowing older than 1yr in if the cost was on an increasing scale and not allowing any previous earned points to count toward payout of Performance points. It will give those not entered by one year a chance in and having significant fee increases with age gives those that have younger pups more incentive to pay up early to avoid the bigger fees. I have had to spend as much as the $410 fee to pay up a dog in the SS just to increase the value of the dog.

I will go back to my original post from days ago to increase participation simplify the registration process. Performance has got to be included on the Application for Permanent Registration. For as long as this program has been in place when I have to explain how to sign up pups to a good half of the guys who buy pups there is a problem!

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 07-21-2018 01:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
They give an early bird discount to pay up for $400 for the year that has to be paid before the end of September then it increases a hundred every month up to $700 for the year if not paid by November. You can also pay $350 for each 6mo term if you miss out on the early bird special. Yes on the $200 a litter to make pups SS eligible from non SS studs, still have to have DNA profile done on both the sire and dam.

I do not see the UKC performance program loosing money by allowing older than 1yr in if the cost was on an increasing scale and not allowing any previous earned points to count toward payout of Performance points. It will give those not entered by one year a chance in and having significant fee increases with age gives those that have younger pups more incentive to pay up early to avoid the bigger fees. I have had to spend as much as the $410 fee to pay up a dog in the SS just to increase the value of the dog.

I will go back to my original post from days ago to increase participation simplify the registration process. Performance has got to be included on the Application for Permanent Registration. For as long as this program has been in place when I have to explain how to sign up pups to a good half of the guys who buy pups there is a problem!

Thanks for clarifying that. The performance works the same, $100 before January 1st, $200 on or after January 1st, $300 after June or July 1st.
The weak link in the program is that 75% of pups don’t get paid up, figure out how to get people to performance there pups and the program works.

Mr Tim.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-21-2018 01:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Thanks for clarifying that. The performance works the same, $100 before January 1st, $200 on or after January 1st, $300 after June or July 1st.
The weak link in the program is that 75% of pups don’t get paid up, figure out how to get people to performance there pups and the program works.

Mr Tim.

This is why it needs to be on the puppy papers with fees listed not a separate sheet.

Posted by Wes Coffman on 07-21-2018 01:32 AM:

1. Registration process needs simplified. Need a check box on permanent registration papers with appropriate fees listed based on age. Make any age eligible, just gotta pay to play.

2. Payout only the top 10 for each respective age group based on total performance points earned. ie 1 year olds, 2 year olds, 3 year olds. After 3, have a yearly Performance hunt for those dogs having earned Performance points that hunt year and payout the final 4 of that hunt. Get a sponsor...say Purina...and make this a National type hunt with a handsome purse or even a pick up truck.

These type of changes are geared towards increasing participation as well as prestige. I would have to see some numbers to get an idea of what the payouts would be, but in my scenario...your are paying out 34 dogs....I would think this would significantly increase point value.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-21-2018 04:05 AM:

Mr Coffman, those are some good ideas. But it sounds like you are describing the Purina Race. And any dog can be hunted in it and it doesn't cost you anything up front. You can also earn Performance Points while you are running.

Posted by Wes Coffman on 07-21-2018 12:53 PM:

Everyone would pay a Performance fee upon registration to be eligible. The fee would need to coincide with a dogs age. The older the dog, the higher the fee. Encourage people to pay them up when they are pups or breeders to pay up the litter before selling.

I’m not sure how the current Purina Circuit runs. However, I do not think that from a points perspective that 1 year olds are vying for a top ten race against other 1 year olds (2 year olds, 3 year olds, etc). I want to create competition amongst the different age groups as well as prestige for folks being able to say they had the top 2 year old performance pup or top 5 2 year old performance pup, etc...

You would also be able to earn Performance Points at any hunt...don’t think you can do that with Purina Points.

Posted by pamjohnson on 07-21-2018 02:16 PM:

if no checks was paid out to anyone when they didn't earn at least $25. that alone would save ukc upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars and a boat load of time. in turn saving the program money.

increase participation. make ALL dogs eligible at ANY age.

Posted by yadkintar on 07-21-2018 02:22 PM:

They get 10% of the top plus they draw interest off of that money and they send you a 1099 if your check is big enough y'all got to get over that they are struggling stuff jmo.

Tar

Posted by sleepy head on 07-21-2018 02:28 PM:

It don't cost anyone to not pay out 50$ or less? It's costing the guy not getting it, 50$. I'm sorry but if someone owes me money, give it to me

Posted by pamjohnson on 07-21-2018 02:28 PM:

STUGGLING STUFF? WHAT?

Posted by yadkintar on 07-21-2018 02:30 PM:

There are plenty of dead dogs and dogs that never won any things money in there to pay people with.

Tar

Posted by pamjohnson on 07-21-2018 02:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
It don't cost anyone to not pay out 50$ or less? It's costing the guy not getting it, 50$. I'm sorry but if someone owes me money, give it to me

unfortunately it does cost ukc a bundle. i also understand what u are saying sleepy.

Posted by sleepy head on 07-21-2018 02:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
unfortunately it does cost ukc a bundle. i also understand what u are saying sleepy.

I may wrong but i doesn't cost UKC any, just the fund. They keep 10% to manage the fund

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