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Posted by donaldpeyton on 04-09-2022 10:30 PM:

Wanting someone to withdraw because there loosing is not have sportsmanship! Truth is that is just wanting a easy path to victory! Ive been down so far I wanted to withdraw but I would be handling someone else’s dog and they spent there money so I put in the time! Sportsmanship goes in a lot of direction.

Posted by Al Medcalf on 04-10-2022 04:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
There are some that understand sportsmanship and some never will. I definitely think whoever you are, you should be the first to sign up for the sportsmanship class 101. That is assuming you've ever even been in a nite hunt.

I know who Ghost is and yep he's been in some. 😁

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Posted by shadinc on 04-10-2022 04:07 PM:

I never could understand why a dog would be scratched for anything except fighting. What's so horrible about treeing a possum that a dog must be sent home? Let him compete. I never thought it was fair to the casts that remain with 4 dogs. Almost everybody has a dog that looks great by himself. Even me. Sometimes.

__________________
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Posted by Dave Richards on 04-11-2022 05:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I never could understand why a dog would be scratched for anything except fighting. What's so horrible about treeing a possum that a dog must be sent home? Let him compete. I never thought it was fair to the casts that remain with 4 dogs. Almost everybody has a dog that looks great by himself. Even me. Sometimes.

Donald you are so right, most dogs look better by themselves, where there is nothing to distract them. I have seen really good dogs by themselves that were no good at all hunting in competition. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Ghost14 on 04-11-2022 12:37 PM:

Fair and generous behavior or treatment of others is the literal definition of Sportsmanship. You are not asking for fair treatment. You are asking for special treatment. What’s amazing is you keep saying you are in the right for asking a “competitor” to step aside so you can advance higher in a ranking. I looked up Sportsmanship. Maybe you research competition or competitor’s. I don’t think much of a man that would withdraw and let me rack up more points. So I won’t be that man for you cupcakes!

__________________
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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-12-2022 03:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost14
Fair and generous behavior or treatment of others is the literal definition of Sportsmanship. You are not asking for fair treatment. You are asking for special treatment. What’s amazing is you keep saying you are in the right for asking a “competitor” to step aside so you can advance higher in a ranking. I looked up Sportsmanship. Maybe you research competition or competitor’s. I don’t think much of a man that would withdraw and let me rack up more points. So I won’t be that man for you cupcakes!

I'd love to be enlightened on your logic of why you'd stay in an event like the TOC when you're down 500 points with 20 minutes left and you didn't have a cast win the first night. Please explain to me your logic behind this decision? Amd just what are you accomplishing by keeping your dog in down that much?

In my eyes it's about as un sportsmanlike as it gets. When I'm getting beat that bad I'll shake your hand and watch yours go tree another one because clearly my dog couldn't keep up that night. I could kick rocks, moan and groan, and try to hold you down and keep you from scoring another coon. That's really the only reason anyone would stay in. Sad

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-12-2022 02:59 PM:

Oh my goodness, so everyone should just get out of your way and let you run up a big score so that you could beat the dogs in the other cast that were competing against 3 other dogs? Maybe you should have paid them to withdraw.

Posted by Buckshot on 04-12-2022 03:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

In my eyes it's about as un sportsmanlike as it gets. When I'm getting beat that bad I'll shake your hand and watch yours go tree another one because clearly my dog couldn't keep up that night. I could kick rocks, moan and groan, and try to hold you down and keep you from scoring another coon. That's really the only reason anyone would stay in. Sad

Kinda like Friday night when you finished -25 and 300 down?

As you said: "because clearly my dog couldn't keep up that night". Yet you didn't withdraw either and appears you had "kick rocks, moan and groan, and try to hold you down and keep you from scoring another coon. That's really the only reason anyone would stay in. Sad".

Just saying.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-12-2022 03:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, so everyone should just get out of your way and let you run up a big score so that you could beat the dogs in the other cast that were competing against 3 other dogs? Maybe you should have paid them to withdraw.

All you can do is beat what you draw. If it's your dogs night to shine let me shake your hand. In sports when teams get way up do they keep the starters in and keep pounding the opponent ?

I do find it troubling that guys would be to proud to admit when they are beat. We all lose but how a guy handles it speaks volumes to the man.

Posted by Ghost14 on 04-12-2022 03:43 PM:

It’s obvious you weren’t taught to finish what you started. If I didn’t have the dog power to beat you, I wouldn’t have ever entered the hunt in the first place. However, once I start something, I finish it. It makes no difference what you think or feel about me or anyone else. This thread actually gives me a little hope because the majority seem to be men that finish what they start. What kind of person calls it a win when competing against nothing? The same kind that gets on an Internet forum whining because it was everyone else’s fault that he didn’t win. I never find myself in these situations where I should quit. Maybe you should find a different game that doesn’t require you beat other players. That way you can just declare yourself the winner.

__________________
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bred dogs.

Posted by Ghost14 on 04-12-2022 03:49 PM:

The more details that come to light, the more it starts making sense

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bred dogs.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-12-2022 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost14
It’s obvious you weren’t taught to finish what you started. If I didn’t have the dog power to beat you, I wouldn’t have ever entered the hunt in the first place. However, once I start something, I finish it. It makes no difference what you think or feel about me or anyone else. This thread actually gives me a little hope because the majority seem to be men that finish what they start. What kind of person calls it a win when competing against nothing? The same kind that gets on an Internet forum whining because it was everyone else’s fault that he didn’t win. I never find myself in these situations where I should quit. Maybe you should find a different game that doesn’t require you beat other players. That way you can just declare yourself the winner.

And who are you and what's the last cast you've entered? At this point im only replying for entertainment. What do you suppose the other 3 were doing when a dog treed 3 straight coon to get up 500 points? Was the dog not competing against them during that time? LOL. I'm glad it would fulfill your ego to finish what you started. I'm sure nobody is going to change their ways based on what they read on a message forum but don't fault a guy for trying.

The reason so many WD is because the guys actually entering the hunts for the most part accept when they don't have a chance to win. Until a rule is put in place that requires all dogs to finish the hunt or the handler be wrote up for quiting there will always be alot of dogs that are withdrawn. And even still there will be casts where dogs get to hunt time alone when dogs are scratched for fighting or off game. You can never please everyone

Buckshot what's the last cast you've entered? I'm not wasting my time explaining being down 300 the first night opposed to being down 500 the second night. It's not even comparable.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 04-12-2022 06:23 PM:

I'll bet if this thread was posted on the the other board it would've taken a completely different direction. Interesting....

I've pulled a lot of rabbits outa my hat in the dying minutes but if I wasn't sitting on a CW from the night before and I'm down 500 with 20 to go stick a fork in me and call it what you want. I'm done.

__________________
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Posted by Ghost14 on 04-12-2022 07:05 PM:

I did not intend to change your mind. You assume the other cast members had bad intentions by saying they showed bad sportsmanship. I assumed they payed the same money you did and are playing by the same rules and therefore have the same right to hunt as you do. What are we missing. Where is the imaginary line you draw where people should give up and just let you win? It must be somewhere between the points you were down the night before and points you were up the second night. Does that number fluctuate when you are down or ahead?
You keep saying people that don’t quit have an ego problem. I just don’t view men in that way. It would never cross my mind to place blame on other men for holding me back.

__________________
Mountain bred hogs require Mountain
bred dogs.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-12-2022 08:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost14
I did not intend to change your mind. You assume the other cast members had bad intentions by saying they showed bad sportsmanship. I assumed they payed the same money you did and are playing by the same rules and therefore have the same right to hunt as you do. What are we missing. Where is the imaginary line you draw where people should give up and just let you win? It must be somewhere between the points you were down the night before and points you were up the second night. Does that number fluctuate when you are down or ahead?
You keep saying people that don’t quit have an ego problem. I just don’t view men in that way. It would never cross my mind to place blame on other men for holding me back.

It's okay Ghost. If I'm beating you by 500 with 20 mins left in an elimimination event and it makes you feel good inside to say you finished the hunt then by all means. What's your name again? I'd like to know who I'm addressing in these awesome internet battles were having.

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-13-2022 03:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
It's okay Ghost. If I'm beating you by 500 with 20 mins left in an elimimination event and it makes you feel good inside to say you finished the hunt then by all means. What's your name again? I'd like to know who I'm addressing in these awesome internet battles were having.

Never judge/measure your corn in another man's bushel. We all have different views, none more right than another man's view point. It sucks for ANY HUNT to be determined by score, all any dog can do is beat the dogs in their cast. I see every cast winner the same. NO HUNT will ever be fair unless it's based on elimination style with ALL Cast winners advancing. High score winners are no better than any of the other cast winners. Blame your frustration on the Format and not on the other hunters. I have seen way to many times where a high score in one night was beat the next night by one of the low score cast winners of the previous nights. High scores can not be accomplished if a dog is not put in coons. These 2 night hunts based on high score are a joke in determining the TRUE WINNER, it only means that dog got put in a coon zoo. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-13-2022 03:17 AM:

High score

UKC finally got it right in the Rules for making a Night Champion and s Grand Night Champion, by going to Cast Wins versus high score format. ALL HUNTS should be based on Cast winners advancing regardless of score as long as the score is plus points, cast winners hunting off until you have a True Champion. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-13-2022 04:37 AM:

Re: High score

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
UKC finally got it right in the Rules for making a Night Champion and s Grand Night Champion, by going to Cast Wins versus high score format. ALL HUNTS should be based on Cast winners advancing regardless of score as long as the score is plus points, cast winners hunting off until you have a True Champion. Dave

I don't disagree with that one bit. But I think the only way to het that accomplished would be to do as another suggested on here and only take double cast winners from each night. The only problem I could see with this though would be finding the guides to be able to pull it off.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-13-2022 03:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
I'll bet if this thread was posted on the the other board it would've taken a completely different direction. Interesting....

I've pulled a lot of rabbits outa my hat in the dying minutes but if I wasn't sitting on a CW from the night before and I'm down 500 with 20 to go stick a fork in me and call it what you want. I'm done.

Your right about that.

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Posted by shadinc on 04-13-2022 04:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
[B]I'll bet if this thread was posted on the the other board it would've taken a completely different direction. Interesting....

I've pulled a lot of rabbits outa my hat in the dying minutes but if I wasn't sitting on a CW from the night before and I'm down 500 with 20 to go stick a fork in me and call it what you want. I'm done. [

It's OK if you want to withdraw. It's your right. But it's also your right to finish the hunt. And you shouldn't be criticized if you hunt until it's over.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Posted by L. Poe on 04-16-2022 02:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is it a competition hunt when you are hunting by yourself or is it just one guy trying to run up his score? When everyone else scratches out or withdraws, the hunt should be over and you should have to go back to the clubhouse with the score that you have. You are no longer competing against another dog. Maybe we need a new rule.

thats been my theory for years too.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-16-2022 06:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
It's OK if you want to withdraw. It's your right. But it's also your right to finish the hunt. And you shouldn't be criticized if you hunt until it's over.

The whole goal of a competition hunt is to see who has the best dog. If that takes 30 mins or the whole 2 hours. When it's clear to you and everyone on the cast when a dog no longer has any chance to win it should be withdrew. I can see several of you don't share this opinion and that's fine, what makes this country great. A

Posted by Dave Richards on 04-16-2022 08:48 PM:

Hunts

Let me say this one more time, NO DOG can do nothing more than win their cast. No dog should have to depend on s high score to advance in ANY HUNT. Surely, no one that hunts thinks a high score in one cast determines the WINNER. PKC has been putting on big hunts for years with a Cast elimination style format and doing it correctly. They do not have a problems getting judges and guides to do this. UKC can do the same thing, it's time to change the hunt format and have a TRUE Champion in ALL of these Big Hunts. Saying a dog that got put in a coon zoo and ran up a big score is better than the other cast winners is FALSE and not
Justified. Imagine why the the HIGH SCORES usually come from local dogs that get the best spots. My buddy got lucky s couple years ago at the Grand American and had the HIGH scoring dog the first night and got dry holed the second night. Once they see you have s coon dog, you will be dry holed the next night. As a matter of fact the 2 highest scoring dogs the first night were both put in the same cast and dry holed, neither dog treed a coon the second night. Does anyone think that was just bad luck? Get rid of this fallacy and have a elimination style hunt to get a True Winner. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Buckshot on 04-16-2022 11:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The whole goal of a competition hunt is to see who has the best dog. If that takes 30 mins or the whole 2 hours. When it's clear to you and everyone on the cast when a dog no longer has any chance to win it should be withdrew.

I am going to share probably a very unpopular opinion.

As a huge sports fan, I know that games can take a turn. Sport events are competitions to see which is the best team. I have watched different sports games from different sports that were blow outs till near the end, and blowout team literally blows it.

Yogi Berra famously said, "It ain't over till it's over."

Alot can happen in those last 20 minutes of a hunt like what happens in sports games. In those last 20 minutes of a hunt, the chance of your dog treeing/chasing off game or fighting can happen. If that happened, totally changes the outcome of the cast. Just like in sports, the losing teams needs help of an ejection, foul out, turn over, pick 6's, and etc.... to change the outcome of the game.

That is why the sporting competitions are set to a certain time length. These are not kids sports where a mercy rule is place. You play to the final whistle because "It ain't over till it's over."

There are many examples of great comebacks, one just recently in the NCAA Tournament that started with an ejection, but one of my favorites involves one of my favorite QB's - Peyton Manning.

Colts VS Bucs 2003 - Down 35-14 with 4 minutes left in the game. The Colts scored 21 points to force overtime and ended up winning in OT 38-35. 21 points down with 4 minutes left in a NFL game...."It ain't over till it's over."

As a youth coach, I coach my youth to Never Quit. I also teach them to lose with dignity and give 100% as Yogi said, "It ain't over till it's over."

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 04-17-2022 12:55 AM:

You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em

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