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-- Face Barking in a hunt (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928536229)

Divided we are.

Happy hunting guys. Kills me that two threads below we have dozens of post trying to figure out how to stop treeing possums. Some of u experts figure out how to stop the alligators from feeding at the tree. Competition or not this is a behavior that can be corrected. But if you say it's within the rules to face bark why bother. I think we should breed pitbulls into the bloodlines then whoever is left when we get there plus him up!!!!!!!! Face barking not aggression and interfering. Joke

__________________
Roy Jarman

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
None of that changes the fact that face barking is aggression.

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
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RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

I didn't say it was a scratchable offense. Some on here are saying face barking is not aggression.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Face barking

Is it really interfering??
Will your dog stop treeing ??? I don't like a face barking dog but will it stop your dog treeing?

__________________
Darren cusick I

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
I didn't say it was a scratchable offense. Some on here are saying face barking is not aggression.

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

And if you think your tree jacking dog doesn't cause problems then you need to rethink the whole face barking being aggressive behavior. I've seen way more scuffles at the tree from dogs jacking and landing on other dogs then face barking. I guess its just me but if my dog wouldn't stay treed with either the dog wouldn't be mine very long.

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
None of that changes the fact that face barking is aggression.

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__________________
Let's go huntin

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Just let them figure it out before i get there. I don't classify face barking as aggressive behavior. There just letting you know to get outta there space. But some people will try and scratch you for anything.

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__________________
Donald Bergeron

Face barking

I hate it period, but it happens like it or not! Some of these post remind me of some Attorney questions with a yes or no answer , example Are basketball players tall? Witness replies yes, attorney says " you know Spud Webb played in the NBA and he was only 5'7", Is 5'7" tall? " Witness well, no. Attorney, "You said basketball players were tall." " Where you lying when you said that?" Witness, no, I mean I do not know. Lol. Face barking can be a sign of aggression or maybe not, it depends on the dog period. Anyway, it is not a reason in itself to scratch a dog, like it or not and UKC does not agree that it is a scratchable offense, so everyone's opinion does NOT matter, just as several posters have stated. No matter how you phrase the question! No one should have to be an attorney to hunt in UKC HUNTS, AS MOST OF THESE ISSUES HAVE BEEN CLARIFIED BY UKC. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Divided we are.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan&Ann
Happy hunting guys. Kills me that two threads below we have dozens of post trying to figure out how to stop treeing possums. Some of u experts figure out how to stop the alligators from feeding at the tree. Competition or not this is a behavior that can be corrected. But if you say it's within the rules to face bark why bother. I think we should breed pitbulls into the bloodlines then whoever is left when we get there plus him up!!!!!!!! Face barking not aggression and interfering. Joke

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__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

quote:

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Originally posted by Clif Owen
Back in the early 90's I had a dog that was pretty radical at the tree. He jacked the tree pretty bad sometimes. I had no idea how to break this. Anyway, I took him to a RQE to try to win my cast and possibly get a 1st. We cut the dogs and they went just about 75 yards and all 4 blew up on a tree. Well, a few seconds later; you could tell there was friction. Honestly, at this point; I wasn't worried. My dog's voice hadn't changed. He WASN'T involved. But when we got to the tree, he was face barking. The judge scratched him for attempting to fight. I never questioned the decision. However, when the judge started telling me how to return to the clubhouse; I refused to leave. I was going to watch to see how this circus turned out. I wasn't sure the right dog was scratched and I knew that not enough dogs were scratched but mine looked guilty. Long story short; about an hour or so into the hunt; 2 of the remaining 3 got into a battle. They weren't blowing...they were for real fighting. But, they quit before we got close enough to see what happened. There was no doubt which 2 were involved. But nothing was ever done. I probably owe one of those guys an apology. For about a year, I thought his dog was the bad one. Turns out, there was a female on the cast and she was bad to the bone. It was evidently her that started both scuffles. I think she grabbed mine on the first tree and blew his mind.
Should my dog have been scratched?? At the time, I thought so but I'm not sure now. I didn't like his actions but wonder now if he was only trying to protect himself after being attacked.

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__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Yes sir

I agree with that for sure. I know there are guys that get the card and take advantage of it. But I am not talking about two dogs getting tangled up and yaayaya and that's it. I am thinking of a blatant aggressor that is very consistent in a dogs face provoking. Not mad at anyone just have seen some bad stuff back in 80s and 90s...And I do admit that it is not an easy problem to solve...just my opinion boys...and ladies

__________________
Roy Jarman

quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
The question we need to ask ourselves is...what type of dog is a face barker?

Some will say it is a dog that wants its space...

I see it as a jealous dog hoarding the tree and wants the coon for itself...it is also aggressive behavior...IMO the dog should be focused on treeing a coon and not on face barking...

Work hard at training the dog to not be a face barker is ok...and one day you decide to breed that dog and wonder why you have more face barking in the next generation...

When trying to breed on the ragged edge of perfection...chances are you will fall on each side of that line with the pups...
Who wants to breed that close to the negative?

Rules should take this into consideration and look at the big picture....modify rules that promote the better dogs...

I will not hunt a face barker...they can ruin a pup as well...

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Yes I have...when the hog has been stopped and the dogs are at bay is when it happens if it’s going to happen...

Also seen it with dogs trying to hunt and one is running alongside face barking...don’t see it often but a little is too much as far as I am concerned...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

I look at it like this if you are at work minding your own business doing your job and I come by and slam into you or jump up on your work bench and jump on top of you what are you going to do? More than likely say something. This is absolutely no different. Usually the dog that is causing the other one to face bark is more of the problem than the one doing the face barking because they are either circling the tree or running the tree. About all of them will tree just fine with however many dogs that want to pile in there as long as they use there manners when they get there. If they don’t mid there manners they need to be warned about it. If they continue to not mind there manners well they don’t deserve to eat at the table and need to be sent packing. Knock the crap out of them when they are circling the tree and jacking the tree while you are pleasure hunting and you will have VERY LITTLE problems in a hunt.
As for the rule it’s right there in black and white quit trying to bend it to get rid of dogs.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Team Mafia, I agree with you, but if you stand next to me at work and keep yelling in my face, we’ll also have a problem. I don’t go to work looking for a problem, but will have trouble working with you yelling in my face. 😁 I understand the rules, just stating an opinion.

__________________
Bob Kwandrans Jr
Home of the Buck Creek dogs:
*GrNitech Buck Creek Country
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Face barking and Blowing are two differnt things Dalton. Yes a dog will blow when another dog is acting a fool, that other wise would just stand there treeing. But dogs that face bark, do just that all the time no matter what they tree with. Most of the time they start bumping other dogs on the tree trying to get a reaction, when that don't work they mouth other dogs head, and even nip. Females are real bad about this and always get away with it. Tree jackers can be broke face barkers can be light broke. Face barkers get culled at my house.

__________________
Home of the Original Whiskey Hounds!
Rebecca Agee

Keywords

"Disgression of the judge"

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The meanest dogs I ever seen was always the the dog that stands still and doesn't want a dog in it's spot on the tree. They look like a class act till another dog gets to close.
Circling and tree jacking alone is never an issue till they meet one of these class act type dogs.

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
The meanest dogs I ever seen was always the the dog that stands still and doesn't want a dog in it's spot on the tree. They look like a class act till another dog gets to close.
Circling and tree jacking alone is never an issue till they meet one of these class act type dogs.

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__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
The meanest dogs I ever seen was always the the dog that stands still and doesn't want a dog in it's spot on the tree. They look like a class act till another dog gets to close.
Circling and tree jacking alone is never an issue till they meet one of these class act type dogs.

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What dog do you want. The one blowing and face barking. The one jumping. Or the one standing still and had better be left alone. I have seen several of the standing still ones shut down several problems at a tree in 5 seconds or less. Dogs just didn't mess with them after they demonstrated they would not be messed with. They didn't go looking for trouble. But they didn't move an inch because of it.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
What dog do you want. The one blowing and face barking. The one jumping. Or the one standing still and had better be left alone. I have seen several of the standing still ones shut down several problems at a tree in 5 seconds or less. Dogs just didn't mess with them after they demonstrated they would not be messed with. They didn't go looking for trouble. But they didn't move an inch because of it.

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__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Bruce, when you have one of those leave me alone types, all of the tree jacker and face barker handlers will try every trick to get yours scratched. They all start crying when they go in to a tree and theirs is standing back bloody but yours is standing like a statue treeing away. They will gang up and vote to scratch yours when they know their's started it.

Face Barking?

Let's not think that face barking is aggressive behavior. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.

Over the years, I and my dad have had a couple of females that would tree 120-140, and toss their head, alone or in company. No aggression. They treed the same way by themselves. We could hunt our own dogs and friends dogs with them, and have them treed side by side with no problem at all.

That said, it is best to not hunt a dog like this in the hunts, as some dogs are intimidated by this type of treeing. It's sort of like having a tree jacking dog that trees the same way all by itself. There's no real aggression or interfering intent, but it can bring out aggression from other dogs, and sometimes intimidate other dogs. You can literally have two or three dogs like this treeing together without a problem. But, when hunted with dogs of a different temper/intensity and/or style, it can bring out problems in the other dogs.

That said, there is a different type of face barker that will guard a tree (don't want anything else treeing with them). These are the ones that you have to watch out for.